Tired of failing

[lifestream]

I'm not sure what the problem here is, but this childish bickering is completely pointless. For Merlin's sake, can't we just stick to the topic instead of insulting people? It shouldn't be that difficult. I've read so much bickering and a few insults on this thread that I kind of forgot what I wanted to reply to begin with. Great job. People post here because they want to help. If, after they post anything, they get shot down or insulted, what's the point of asking for help in the first place? If you start a thread and want help, accept any and all advice, even though it may not immediately be what you like to hear. There are different people here on this forum and as such there will be different responses. Still, respect all responses, don't insult people and then whine when they react unfavorable to you. Sigh.

I don't think the issue is that people are not getting the responses they want, I think it's that there is a culture of condemnation and assignation of blame that is indulged quite frequently, too frequently, really, on ALL.

Without naming names, there are several forum members who regularly respond to other members who have come here looking for some kind of acceptance and help with moralising, judgemental, 'tough luck' attitudes. Any competent psychiatric professional will tell you that blaming the sufferer for their mental health issues is neither appropriate or conducive to building self-esteem. Nor is offering pat solutions to lifelong issues around mental health or self-esteem.

While your point about accepting any and all advice is well-meant, I believe that it is based on faulty logic. If someone posts about how they are tired of life and somebody else responds by blaming them for their own misery, would you want them to take that to heart? I certainly wouldn't.

Not too long ago, I chatted to another regular member on ALL who was distraught because they had made several friends here who simply couldn't deal with the climate of the forum and left. I think that this is a telling symptom of a much greater problem on ALL, one that has been addressed several times by other members, sometimes in anger, sometimes in despair, but never without merit.

I'm not trying to start a war by posting this, I'm simply saying that maybe we need to have a serious think about how we act towards each other on this forum. I know that socialising on the internet frees one from the ropes of anxiety and self-doubt in a way, which therefore gives rise to arrogance and carelessness, but there is a desperate need for understanding, tolerance and patience on ALL.

We lonely people have so few sanctuaries, so little support in the real world, don't we deserve a place where we can reach out and meet acceptance rather than scorn and judgement? Can't we show each other some of the kindness and caring that life has denied so many of us?

 

[ABrokenMan]

Well said!

 

[LonelySutton]

I'm not trying to start a war by posting this, I'm simply saying that maybe we need to have a serious think about how we act towards each other on this forum. I know that socialising on the internet frees one from the ropes of anxiety and self-doubt in a way, which therefore gives rise to arrogance and carelessness, but there is a desperate need for understanding, tolerance and patience on ALL.

We lonely people have so few sanctuaries, so little support in the real world, don't we deserve a place where we can reach out and meet acceptance rather than scorn and judgement? Can't we show each other some of the kindness and caring that life has denied so many of us?

Bless you for saying this. I agree.

 

[Triple Bogey]

The bickering is caused by a few people who are probably doing it on purpose just out of badness.

 

[Xpendable]

Without naming names, there are several forum members who regularly respond to other members who have come here looking for some kind of acceptance and help with moralising, judgemental, 'tough luck' attitudes. Any competent psychiatric professional will tell you that blaming the sufferer for their mental health issues is neither appropriate or conducive to building self-esteem. Nor is offering pat solutions to lifelong issues around mental health or self-esteem.

It's easy. Without blaming the individual the problems can rely on society, and the fact that we can't change society makes us hit a wall. I don't think the 'tough luck' attitudes are made with malice. It's just that the possibility of not having a solution frighten us, so is better to think is always and individual problem.

 

[dd11]

There is no success without failure. Thomas Edison said he had learned one million ways NOT to make a lightbulb, until he did. But, what is "success" anyway? There are lots of ways to be a successful person in life. What things would define you as a successful person? For some it, it is money or a fancy car or something like that. For another, it might be teaching Sunday school to kids or baking a neighbor a pie who just lost a loved one. I think the real question is who do we want to be in the world? And you can be that person without a lot of education, material things, etc.

 

[LonelySutton]

And you can be that person with a lot of education, material things, etc.

I get that your trying to be encouraging but truth... no you can't. Not always. I believed this before and after about 25 years of pursuing goals.. I am not really where I want to be. Not 100%. I would liken it to "Rudy". I have always loved that movie and little guy. He had a simple dream. To play for Notre Dame. He achieved it... kind of. He got to play for 1 game. But basically he didn't get his dream. Not really.

After 50 or so of these dreams being -- achieved -- not really. It is hard to really want to do anything else. Because you know you aren't going to make it. So how do you deal with that? Adjusting expectations... sure.. but that kind of is a defeat. Trying again, ok, but the whole time your doing it your expecting not to succeed.

I don't think the 'tough luck' attitudes are made with malice. It's just that the possibility of not having a solution frighten us, so is better to think is always and individual problem.

I do think they have malice but also fear of the negative ideas being right. Anyway.. this is a message board FOR lonely people. There should be support and kindness. IF you don't like a particular poster put them on the "Ignore list" so you don't have to see them. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

 

[TheRealCallie]

And you can be that person with a lot of education, material things, etc.

I get that your trying to be encouraging but truth... no you can't. Not always. I believed this before and after about 25 years of pursuing goals.. I am not really where I want to be. Not 100%. I would liken it to "Rudy". I have always loved that movie and little guy. He had a simple dream. To play for Notre Dame. He achieved it... kind of. He got to play for 1 game. But basically he didn't get his dream. Not really.

After 50 or so of these dreams being -- achieved -- not really. It is hard to really want to do anything else. Because you know you aren't going to make it. So how do you deal with that? Adjusting expectations... sure.. but that kind of is a defeat. Trying again, ok, but the whole time your doing it your expecting not to succeed.

I don't think the 'tough luck' attitudes are made with malice. It's just that the possibility of not having a solution frighten us, so is better to think is always and individual problem.

I do think they have malice but also fear of the negative ideas being right. Anyway.. this is a message board FOR lonely people. There should be support and kindness. IF you don't like a particular poster put them on the "Ignore list" so you don't have to see them. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

If you have achieved so many of your "dreams," perhaps you need to rethink what you really want. After achieving so much, you still aren't happy. You need to rethink your life and what exactly you want out of it. Don't just look at the short term goals, but also what you want the long term outcome to be. So yeah, it's about your perspective here....

This is kind of a stupid argument, I'm sorry but it is. This is a LONELY forum, yes, but it's not a "OMG, let's all be so nice to each other because we should bond as one, and blah blah blah." People are still people, people still have their own personalities that won't always mesh with certain types of people. Some people go out looking for a fight, some people are hypocrites, some don't think they can do any wrong, some don't want to listen to advice because they are scared, so they call foul and some are just ******* trolls.
People are different, there will NEVER be any community (online or off) that there will be no conflict. It's a fact of life and sometimes people need to get the "tough love/luck" type of message to get their heads out of their ass or their depression, whichever the case may be.

 

[Xpendable]

I do think they have malice but also fear of the negative ideas being right. Anyway.. this is a message board FOR lonely people. There should be support and kindness. IF you don't like a particular poster put them on the "Ignore list" so you don't have to see them. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Sometimes solutions aren't nice. In fact, I think the most radical solutions are often painful.

 

[reynard_muldrake]

This is kind of a stupid argument, I'm sorry but it is. This is a LONELY forum, yes, but it's not a "OMG, let's all be so nice to each other because we should bond as one, and blah blah blah." People are still people, people still have their own personalities that won't always mesh with certain types of people. Some people go out looking for a fight, some people are hypocrites, some don't think they can do any wrong, some don't want to listen to advice because they are scared, so they call foul and some are just ******* trolls.
People are different, there will NEVER be any community (online or off) that there will be no conflict. It's a fact of life and sometimes people need to get the "tough love/luck" type of message to get their heads out of their ass or their depression, whichever the case may be.

This is a one-dimensional perspective. Sorry, but it is. I recognize skirmishes will occur due to our varied temperaments, especially since the burden of depression and/or loneliness doesn't always mean we'll play nice, but the preference of accepting over lowering conflicts has resulted in A Lonely Life's metamorphosis to a forum filled with unneeded harshness and negativity. So many of us have looked for help outside the Internet. What have we received? Scorn or empty platitudes along the lines of "You only live once" or "No pain, no gain". When I joined the forum, I thought ALL's purpose was to aim higher than the nonsense espoused by individuals in our lives.

Don't get me wrong. Coddling or a series of niceties will get us nowhere. A verbal bucket of water over the head may well be the one thing that will wake us up. One problem, though: eagerness to demonstrate a "tough love"/"brutal honesty" approach comes across as an unwillingness to understand the plight of the lonely or depressed. You often advise people to question themselves. This is what I say to you. Question the possibility of "I tell it like it is" resulting in more harm than good.

 

[TheRealCallie]

So many of us have looked for help outside the Internet. What have we received? Scorn or empty platitudes along the lines of "You only live once" or "No pain, no gain". When I joined the forum, I thought ALL's purpose was to aim higher than the nonsense individuals in our lives dish out to us.

Here's what I don't understand. You come online, find a community such as this and expect it to be different from real life. But here's the problem with that. All of us ARE real life. We aren't really any different than people you will meet when you walk outside. Some of us are tough love people, some are coddlers, some are trolls. It's no different than "real life." Yes, we may have things like loneliness and depression and whatever in common, but that doesn't mean this place will be different from anywhere else.
It's really a simple matter of take what you like and leave the rest, the same as it is anywhere. Some people can't do this and that's how problems arise. Now, granted, I don't mean insults or anything like that, but when it comes to advice or even something someone says that another doesn't like, then yeah, take what you like and leave the rest.

 

[reynard_muldrake]

So many of us have looked for help outside the Internet. What have we received? Scorn or empty platitudes along the lines of "You only live once" or "No pain, no gain". When I joined the forum, I thought ALL's purpose was to aim higher than the nonsense individuals in our lives dish out to us.

Here's what I don't understand. You come online, find a community such as this and expect it to be different from real life. But here's the problem with that. All of us ARE real life. We aren't really any different than people you will meet when you walk outside. Some of us are tough love people, some are coddlers, some are trolls. It's no different than "real life." Yes, we may have things like loneliness and depression and whatever in common, but that doesn't mean this place will be different from anywhere else.
It's really a simple matter of take what you like and leave the rest, the same as it is anywhere. Some people can't do this and that's how problems arise. Now, granted, I don't mean insults or anything like that, but when it comes to advice or even something someone says that another doesn't like, then yeah, take what you like and leave the rest.

We do exist and have "real lives". That much is true. In these lives, though, we have less regulations. The forum isn't a free-for-all where everything goes. We are expected to abide by a certain code, one which insists upon respect. I do indeed take what I like here, as I do wherever I visit, but that won't stop me from speaking out when necessary. I suspect a lot of members are of a similar mindset, even if they choose not to vocalize their views.

 

[LonelySutton]

The forum isn't a free-for-all where everything goes. We are expected to abide by a certain code, one which insists upon respect. I do indeed take what I like here, as I do wherever I visit, but that won't stop me from speaking out when necessary.

It is becoming a free for all where only a certain group are so prolific that even if I have them on my ignore list I came back to a thread with 4 pages of insults.

In fact, I think the most radical solutions are often painful.

You can suggest painful solutions in a nice way. That isn't what happens here. Just insults.

 

[Xpendable]

In fact, I think the most radical solutions are often painful.

You can suggest painful solutions in a nice way. That isn't what happens here. Just insults.

You got it backwards. I agreeing with you. I think the tough attitude comes from denying the option of pain; therefore the insults. Painful solutions aren't going to sound "nice" to everyone.

 

[TheRealCallie]

There must not be all that many insults from that "only a certain group," because no one has been banned....

It might be off topic and stupid, but there aren't many insults.

 

[Xpendable]

There must not be all that many insults from that "only a certain group," because no one has been banned....

It might be off topic and stupid, but there aren't many insults.

It's not something that is normally banned. Insults are not necessarily curse words. I think is more about despise and disregard of other people's problems.

 

[dd11]

And you can be that person with a lot of education, material things, etc.

I get that your trying to be encouraging but truth... no you can't. Not always. I believed this before and after about 25 years of pursuing goals.. I am not really where I want to be. Not 100%. I would liken it to "Rudy". I have always loved that movie and little guy. He had a simple dream. To play for Notre Dame. He achieved it... kind of. He got to play for 1 game. But basically he didn't get his dream. Not really.

After 50 or so of these dreams being -- achieved -- not really. It is hard to really want to do anything else. Because you know you aren't going to make it. So how do you deal with that? Adjusting expectations... sure.. but that kind of is a defeat. Trying again, ok, but the whole time your doing it your expecting not to succeed.

I don't think the 'tough luck' attitudes are made with malice. It's just that the possibility of not having a solution frighten us, so is better to think is always and individual problem.

I do think they have malice but also fear of the negative ideas being right. Anyway.. this is a message board FOR lonely people. There should be support and kindness. IF you don't like a particular poster put them on the "Ignore list" so you don't have to see them. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Ooops! I meant you can be that person with OUT having a lot of material things, etc. So sorry for the typo!

---

My point is that success isn't necessarily money or stuff. Success in life is being a good person. Is being kind. Is helping another. Success is many things. Right now, I am painting my living room. That is "success". It makes my world a little nicer. My home a bit nicer for myself and my family. I am going to cook a nice meal later today. That is "success". Don't let the world define who you are.

 

[TheRealCallie]

There must not be all that many insults from that "only a certain group," because no one has been banned....

It might be off topic and stupid, but there aren't many insults.

It's not something that is normally banned. Insults are not necessarily curse words. I think is more about despise and disregard of other people's problems.

People throwing out insults, after a warning, of course, are typically banned. So, clearly there are no insults running rampant here.
It's not even really about despise (okay, maybe a little) or disregard of people's problems. It's just that sometimes, that's the only way to get out what they want to say.

A lot of people have a problem with what I say to others. That doesn't make me wrong, it just makes me the easy person to attack and call mean. A few other people, who don't talk bluntly say the same things I do, only in a nicer (more coddling) way. That doesn't mean my manner of speaking is wrong, it's just different and many don't like that. That's not really my problem. I won't change who I am just because people don't like that I don't coddle them or walk on eggshells around them. Others, I'm sure, are the same way. Meaning, in the end, people are going to clash and people are going to argue. Sorry, but that's life.

 

[reynard_muldrake]

LonelySutton, I didn't intend to hijack your thread. Hopefully neither did anyone else. In any event, I'm going to carry this discussion over to an entirely new thread.

 

[stork_error]

IMO Tough love is harmful and dangerous to people with post traumatic stress.
IMO Its also pointless to offer to people with high self awareness or high intelligence because they will recognize it as a tactic and find it manipulative.
IMO it also comes across as arrogant and self righteous unless it's coming from a family member or DR
IMO the compulsion to throw it at people indiscriminately is a symptom of codependency