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...so you can be human, but he can't.
No he can be human with someone who can handle it, just not me. See the issue is it's unattractive to me because it wouldn't work. I have to think of my children, it's like when I couldn't drive, my rule was I would never date a man that cant drive as one of us has to do it. I struggle with mental health so I need a partner who struggles with something else to give any potential children a chance at a decent life.
 
I'm also getting a strong 'former party princess' impression here of quite a wealthy or upper-middle class background.

Lool honestly yeah... I am a former party girl, I used to go clubbing every single day, like even on a Wednesday!! Mainly because I love to dance 😅 🥰🎶
 
Actually I think what she wants goes further back then that: Except in Beverly Hills.

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Would you be willing to churn butter for the family?
Only you truly understand me Finished, sometimes I watch Viking shows and think.. I'd rub goats blood on my face, if I get to be with him... ugh.. what a man lol.
 
Because you're cheating yourself out of life experiences that are key to learning to survive.

There are two different types of people in the world:

1.) The people who collect resources.
2.) The people who collect the people, who collect resources.

#2 requires you to have people to collect in the first place...but what if there are no people? Then what do you do? You have to do it yourself.

#2 is the easier, and more commonly chose option, and it's a shame, because there's less structural security in the plan when the foundations of that structural security are other sentient beings, each with a mind of their own that at any given moment can suddenly just for whatever unknown reason decide that they're walking out on you.

So if you want a more consistent, better life structure, you build the foundations of your security by yourself through gathering resources, saving them, and rationing them.
Yeah.. but I'd do that on my own? So why would I be in a partnership to do that? That's where I start scratching my head lolz.
 
Yeah.. but I'd do that on my own? So why would I be in a partnership to do that? That's where I start scratching my head lolz.
I can actually imagine you having a cellar filled with severed souls, and limbs of loves lost. Next to the lawn mower that you've no desire to use.
 
Another factor in what happened since the 1960s is that a lot of women, not all of them, demanded a way out of what many at the time considered domestic servitude. The women's movement of the 1970s, at least in the US, was an all out rebellion against the "old-fashioned" way where the man dominated over the family and in some ways was really more of a master than a husband. Many women wanted their own lives, their own careers, their own money, some level of independence and a higher status in society than just being a housewife. Husbands had real power over their families and in many cases abused them with impunity. Divorce was rare and scandalous, so many women found themselves trapped for life with men who treated them like servants.

Both of my grandmothers were in that situation, and both of my parents said that their fathers used to beat their mothers more often than they care to talk about, especially after trips to the bar. Women also had few job opportunities because they were supposed to really only have babies and raise families. So women who didn't marry found themselves in low paying jobs with little hope of advancement. Often a convent provided the only escape for some. I don't look back on that era as a particularly romantic one, though I'm sure the situation worked out for some people. If you were a domineering, controlling man it was probably a paradise. The women's movement tried to put a stop to all of that and men had to react, especially when women entered the workforce and began competing directly with men. A lot of the mechanisms that kept women down began to erode and, since women began to unquestionably excel, men could no longer dismiss them as intellectually inferior and only suited to low-paying jobs and child-bearing.

Advertisements at the time blatantly reflected these attitudes. A search for "sexist ads" will result in too many to count. Here are only a few.

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The tradition of men arguing that women are intellectually inferior goes a long way back. For one, Thomas Jefferson taught his own daughters that women were created for the pleasure of men. The tradition still survives. Just a few years ago, a co-worker of mine, a blonde woman, said her boss kept dropping hints that she was "stupid." So she went out and passed a dozen certifications and would bring each one into him personally. A lot of women still deal with that crap today.

Though not entirely successful, the woman's movement changed a lot of attitudes towards marriage and gender roles. Things have slowly evolved since then and plenty of traditionalism still exists, but it now exists within a larger consciousness with infinitely more variety and possibilities than the comparatively homogeneous 1950s and 1960s offered for women. Like most things, it came with good and bad, but women now have far more life options than housewife, secretary, teacher, nurse or nun. That was the good part. Then as the economy worsened in the late 1970s and throughout the 1980s, women entering the workforce became almost a necessity for many families. That, arguably, was the bad part.
It's too late/early for such saucy pictures lol okay I'll be serious.

Truthfully I understand, men in my family would never act like that but they did expect a woman to "know her place". Even my dad, I love the lug but he would expect my mum to know exactly what he expects of her when his friends came over, and she did, she'd serve all of them drinks (like on a tray that was beautifully presented) and as I got older she'd send me to do it, as to teach me for when I become a wife. She would say no more than a quick hi, and leave them to their man business lol.

I can say, being so young, so many ideas that gender roles are wrong being pushed onto me, I felt something was a little off, I felt like my mum should be able to hang with the boys, I wanted to lol It sounded so fun, they were always laughing and talking about god knows what... there was a mystery.

My dad also blurred gender lines as he thought of me as intelligent, so he'd engage in countless debates with me, he'd find it funny sometimes, that I was so out of touch. I think thats why I love discussions with others, I never mean to come off rude though,I just like different perspectives.

Other times I was a girl again, girls cannot whistle, girls cannot speak loudly, girls cannot smile at men, girls cannot this and cannot that.
 
I feel like it would be more socially acceptable for me to say I want a relationship where I treat my husband like a adult baby than saying I would prefer a traditional relationship, that has to be an issue...
It's my bloody relationship and I like what I like. I feel like people are pressuring me to be... dare I say it.. no...I won't. You can all use your imagination.
No one, in my opinion, is trying to pressure you to be anything. I think the words "traditional marriage" conjure up a lot of nasty stuff for some people, connotations that you might not yet have encountered, and they're reacting to that. Honestly, and I know this is a little unfair, but the words "traditional marriage" evoke stories about my grandfathers beating my grandmothers and they had no easy or obvious way to escape. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean when you use the words "traditional marriage" and people, including me, should probably have taken more time to clarify exactly what you meant rather than jump to conclusions. That term has some generational baggage and I think that's where a lot of the comments are coming from. My comments arose out of concern that you maybe weren't fully aware of what the words "traditional marriage" could imply to other people, or perhaps you were a little naive about real "traditional marriages." The word "traditional" is unfortunately a little loaded for many people, including me.

Ultimately, it sounds like you want a marriage where the man makes the money and you stay home and raise the kids. All by itself, that's perfectly fine. Some of my own friends have that arrangement, the man goes to work and the woman becomes a stay at home mother. It's completely possible to have that situation without the subservience or dominance. Many women would love that life. Sometimes it doesn't sound all that bad to me, honestly. I knew one family where the woman made the money (and she made a lot of money) and the man raised the kids. That seemed to work fine as well. But that doesn't sound like what you want. You likely saw your parents in that situation and they passed their values on to you. That's fine. I wouldn't pressure you into wanting or being anything else, as long as I didn't think it could harm you in some way.
 
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No one, in my opinion, is trying to pressure you to be anything. I think the words "traditional marriage" conjure up a lot of nasty stuff for some people, connotations that you might not yet have encountered, and they're reacting to that. Honestly, and I know this is a little unfair, but the words "traditional marriage" evoke stories about my grandfathers beating my grandmothers and they had no easy or obvious way to escape. I'm pretty sure that's not what you mean when you use the words "traditional marriage" and people, including me, should probably have taken more time to clarify exactly what you meant rather than jump to conclusions. That term has some generational baggage and I think that's where a lot of the comments are coming from. My comments arose out of concern that you maybe weren't fully aware of what the words "traditional marriage" could imply to other people, or perhaps you were a little naive about real "traditional marriages." The word "traditional" is unfortunately a little loaded for many people, including me.

Ultimately, it sounds like you want a marriage where the man makes the money and you stay home and raise the kids. All by itself, that's perfectly fine. Some of my own friends have that arrangement, the man goes to work and the woman becomes a stay at home mother. It's completely possible to have that situation without the subservience or dominance. Many women would love that life. Sometimes it doesn't sound all that bad to me, honestly. I knew one family where the woman made the money (and she made a lot of money) and the man raised the kids. That seemed to work fine as well. But that doesn't sound like what you want. You likely saw your parents in that situation and they passed their values on to you. That's fine. I wouldn't pressure you into wanting or being anything else, as long as I didn't think it could harm you in some way.

Honestly, I wasn't talking about anyone on this forum in particular, I just meant society. I feel pressured by society to quiet my voice, to pretend I want things I do not want... I feel a pressure to be... something other than a woman...what I consider a woman to be. I was gonna say exactly how I feel but I thought, no no, thats too far I won't say what I feel I will continue to be silenced at fear of triggering people...because thats the last thing I want. I think it is easy to trigger some people on here as, well, they do not like discussions lol I love discussions, I don't get nasty or personal because I see it as a discussion nothing more. I feel like to understand others is so important, when a group feels unheard, unable to engage in a discussion as they are dismissed and called names to shut them up and maintain the status quo ... is when extremes start to be believed, as the conversations are whispered in corners.

This is something I watched a few documentaries on, there was one on the working class white men who live up north who felt like their voices were snatched away. If I never watched a documentary on it, I wouldn't even know about it. I find that now I try to say things that are important to me, my voice is slightly snatched... thats not consistent to the notion that we are all supposed to live our truth and blah blah.

I will be honest, I had no idea saying "traditional marriage" made anyone feel that way, I think I took the phrase from someone else on this forum as it was hard to describe what I want without it being deemed as some weird sugar daddy transaction, I was like oh no, I want it... how it was before. Nothing more nothing less. However, the part that I thought was implied was that I want it for me personally, not everyone. I think that way was pushed on people for so long, they just want it abolished out of existence lol I went on a date with my ex, he used to pay me a "girlfriend tax" because we were young and he always said he was crap at saving, so whatever he paid me was what we was gonna spend on dates that week. So it looked like I paid for our date and the waiter made this huge deal "The lady is paying... oh no..oh no no" I did think, imagine thats the relationship I wanted, that wouldn't have been fair to judge us so publicly like that. We laughed about it, but he never let me pay again, I always had to give him the money back and he paid lol
 
Nice. I just put "1956 Rolls-Royce" into Google Image Search, and it came up with some quite elegant machines.

More would always be great, but yeah, just one classic car would do. It would be nice to go to car shows as a participant instead of a spectator, or just out cruising the boulevards. Any year Mustang SVT Cobra, GT350 or GT500 for me, please.
My WW1 survivor Grandfather bought this. Not a rich man but at 75 y.o wanted to enjoy. We did. His rules were to pass it down the family line and for all descendants to enjoy. I am the current custodian and it is not mine. Whilst I'd love to have one of your Ford's, this RR is simple mechanics.
Hilda Rego blurred.jpg
 
You know.... it's funny I feel judged for wanting a traditional relationship, yet, people keep flipping it as if im trying to tell everyone how to live their lives 🙃 Let me try and be more clear as im not the best at that... i'm not saying that both partners can't provide, or that the roles "have to be split out by gender or relegated to one person only" for everyone. I am saying thats how it has to be in my relationship, thats my preference. I like being a woman, and I want to be treated in a way that makes me feel feminine not masculine.

Personally I do not feel like it's hard to find a man who still wants to be a provider, however, it's hard to find a man who doesn't want to blend gender roles and cry to me every night about how hard life is... I think I have a strong aversion to that as im already overwhelmed with my own struggles, need someone tough to be a support pilar. I cant handle someone as depressed as me, we'd just drag each other into a very deep hole.

My parents marriage was so perfect to me, my dad was strong, never cried in public, I can honestly say I have never seen him shed a tear, not even at his own mothers funeral, not even when he was dying. Very tough man may he rest in peace. He provided for his family, retired young, spent so much time with my mum and his kids. His dream was that none of his daughters would work, (I had to beg him to let me go to a job interview). My mums a bit of arm candy lol but most importantly a wife. My mum never paid a bill, my dad never cleaned a dish.... That was their perfect, and I hope similar will be mine one day. Thats all im saying, I find it maddening that saying that implies I want a sugar daddy, what a time to be alive.

I feel judged for wanting "modern type of relationship". No kids , separate lives and basically date your whole life as high school teenage couple. Basically more open type of relationship, still monogamous , but everyone is feeling free in it. And I feel discriminated when I say I don't want kids. You are public enemy no.1 if you say you don't want kids. I also don't like to feel trapped in relationship. But I see 0 issues with someone wanting "full traditional relationship".
 
I feel judged for wanting "modern type of relationship". No kids , separate lives and basically date your whole life as high school teenage couple. Basically more open type of relationship, still monogamous , but everyone is feeling free in it. And I feel discriminated when I say I don't want kids. You are public enemy no.1 if you say you don't want kids. I also don't like to feel trapped in relationship. But I see 0 issues with someone wanting "full traditional relationship".
On not wanting kids, to avoid the topic I just tell people that I don't have any kids. They then likely assume that either me or my wife have some wiring problems, so they ask no further questions. I suspect that some of my past friends disappeared from my life because, thinking they were real friends, I told them outright that I didn't want children. They didn't have any at the time, but they seemed to vanish not long after they started making some of their own. Some people see not wanting kids as a selfish move, but one can also easily have kids for selfish reasons. I have never regretted my decision, but it definitely has come with some negative social consequences.
 
Well, 95% of girls around me want kids , and I am "dad type of guy". So they just assume that I want kids, and if I don't want, they just give me ultimatums / emotionally blackmail me , which results with break up. So that is why I quoted that girl. I like type of relationship where everything is how we both want it. And I was in relationships where it was all how she / they wanted it , not both of us / me.
 
Well, 95% of girls around me want kids , and I am "dad type of guy". So they just assume that I want kids, and if I don't want, they just give me ultimatums / emotionally blackmail me , which results with break up. So that is why I quoted that girl. I like type of relationship where everything is how we both want it. And I was in relationships where it was all how she / they wanted it , not both of us / me.
Yeah, that does happen. I got permanently fixed in my 20s because I definitely did not want my own children. That cut out a vast amount of possible future Mrs. Finished. But, I can understand it from their point of view.
 
That is why I don't date girls in late 20s. Red flag for me. :( And if you waste them couple of years they are mad cause of kids factor , and they just get kid with next first guy.

One of potential relationships broke for me cause of this. I was like 22 , she like 27 , kids factor difference + age. But she is still amazing girl, we would be amazing couple - just - kids. :(
 
That is why I don't date girls in late 20s. Red flag for me. :( And if you waste them couple of years they are mad cause of kids factor , and they just get kid with next first guy.

One of potential relationships broke for me cause of this. I was like 22 , she like 27 , kids factor difference + age. But she is still amazing girl, we would be amazing couple - just - kids. :(

They can want this without any criticism, but if I do, I'm a selfish old man looking for a womb for his progeny or some other weird admonishment.

Just to be clear, I'd make a crap father, and the time for that is just about over, but I think it's hilarious how society applies these judgements. Don't want kids? Manchild. Want kids? Chauvinistic creep.
 
I feel judged for wanting "modern type of relationship". No kids , separate lives and basically date your whole life as high school teenage couple. Basically more open type of relationship, still monogamous , but everyone is feeling free in it. And I feel discriminated when I say I don't want kids. You are public enemy no.1 if you say you don't want kids. I also don't like to feel trapped in relationship. But I see 0 issues with someone wanting "full traditional relationship".
Wow! I was not expecting this, this is so interesting to me, people do judge if you don't fit into their little boxes. I never even considered how men who don't want kids are judged, I thought that was pretty common, however, like the woman that "will set feminism back 100 years" for wanting to typical gender roles, I can imagine men who don't want kids are viewed in a similar way for the fighting a lot of men have done to be considered an important part of their children's lives.

I think thats an interesting concept, but I have to ask, why be in a relationship that feels like you're not in one, why not just be single?
 
Wow! I was not expecting this, this is so interesting to me, people do judge if you don't fit into their little boxes. I never even considered how men who don't want kids are judged, I thought that was pretty common, however, like the woman that "will set feminism back 100 years" for wanting to typical gender roles, I can imagine men who don't want kids are viewed in a similar way for the fighting a lot of men have done to be considered an important part of their children's lives.

I think thats an interesting concept, but I have to ask, why be in a relationship that feels like you're not in one, why not just be single?

I'll answer this one in 2 parts.

First part: I have bunch of hobbies and I need a lot of "alone time" as introvert. Kids would just ruin me that part. I mean I am "dad type" and I'm good in raising kids , just not my own, cause I don't want them. Also , there is like "money issue" in my country. So that is why it is the cheapest way to live - not having kids and just date your whole life , not buying house / car /stuff. But girls wouldn't accept that. They would rather emotionally blackmail you in order to get what they want. Rarely which girl would accept "my type of relationship" here. I found like only 2 of those. But yeah , I like more " liberal carefree modern " type of relationship.

Second part: I am guy who prioritize my love partner's happiness over my own one. In last relationship I was the one who loved more, cared move, gave more. That relationship was on her terms , by her rules , and not my own. I really did care deeply about that girl. And I was the only one who "lost". I'm just that type of guy. I really do care about my love partner, ... But now I decided to stay single. I got burned out over years of dating.
 
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