Do Pickup Artist manuals work?

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

For someone who is shy around girls, and doesn't know how to seduce them, is this an appropriate thing to get? Should I invest in PUA manuals?

 

[Ak5]

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

If what I said was stupid, then please give me advice that will work.

Clearly you have dated. Don't act like a snotty teenager. When you are almost 30 years old, and haven't kissed, then you can act snotty.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

For someone who is shy around girls, and doesn't know how to seduce them, is this an appropriate thing to get? Should I invest in PUA manuals?

I'd say no. I've always thought the whole "Pickup Artist" thing smacks of arrogance and is just generally unpleasant.

When guys talk about improving their "game", working on their "sets" and "opening" I immediately start thinking "That guy's a dick then.", and I'm fairly sure the majority of girls do too

What do you want from girls? I mean, a full relationship? Or sexual contact? Or just someone to talk to?

I think if you want any of those things, you're better just talking to girls. You don't need to "seduce" them, just get to be friendly with them and perhaps pass them the odd compliment. Girls that like you back will usually start to show interest in you at that point

Girls want you to give them some attention and get to know them. They don't want a bunch of recycled 'tricks' designed to bed them in the minimum amount of time...that stuff's usually just pretty tiresome and will alienate you.

At best you might get a girl into your bed, but I'm not sure if it feels any good to know that you sort of did it all as some kind of "pickup game".

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Whenever I "just talk to a girl", I end up getting friendzoned.

That is, unless she likes me...but I am always too shy, nervous, and awkward to get things rolling...so I get friendzoned, anyways.

I am like that guy in Back To The Future. I need a list of things to say to the girl I like. I need a manual. And I feel pathetic, because everyone my age has popped out babies and is either married or divorced. Yet the closest thing I've had to sexual contact with a girl is hand holding and kisses on the cheek.

Nice guys lose, every time. I just want to even the odds.

 

[Ak5]

If what I said was stupid, then please give me advice that will work.

Clearly you have dated. Don't act like a snotty teenager. When you are almost 30 years old, and haven't kissed, then you can act snotty.

I didn't mean that in a way to offend you, I am sorry.

I meant that in a way that PUA is pure garbage, IMHO. You have to love yourself for who you are, do not rely on PUA manuals and honeysuckle like that. You are shy, and? You can't change who you are, you can only practice and do your best. If girls don't like you cause you're shy, then tough for them! Point is: PUA = honeysuckle, accepting yourself and being confident in yourself = win.

PS: I have never dated nor have I had any "hookups". If I have, then I probably wouldn't even be here.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

Nice guys lose, every time. I just want to even the odds.

Not the case at all! And I say that as a 20-year-old "nice guy" who hasn't even got to the hand-holding stage yet

Girls very much like nice guys. Much, much more so than dickish, "PUA" style guys who think they're too sexy for their shirts or whatever.

Seriously, being nice actually really attracts girls.

The difficult bit is actually showing you like them back when you're shy. The trick I find is to know:

A - When a girl likes you a little bit. This is quite difficult actually, I struggle with it.

B - When to let your inner manliness out a bit. By this I mean knowing when it's appropriate to show that you like her.

Example: Recently a girl was staring at me a bit and I thought perhaps she liked me. I took a long time (3 months!) to pluck the courage up to compliment her, but when I did it was like she was really really happy that I did.

After that she showed me more attention, so I responded by gradually being more physical in a subtle way (e.g. standing very close next to her when saying hello for the first time in a day, leaning close to her when she talks to me, stuff like that). She's now asked me out a few times and we'll hopefully be dating properly soon with a bit of luck.

Forget worrying about the "friendzone" - if a girl realises you like her and she likes you, she'll probably ask you out if neccessary anyway. Just relax about it, speak with lots of girls and get close to ones you like

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

They have liked me, and known that I liked them. They still don't want to make the first move.

Part of the reason I don't want to make the first move is because I fear being hurt. That is why I wanted to know if PUA manuals would work, because if they did, then I would definitely want to get them, because anything that could ease my social skills with girls and prevent me hearing the "You're a nice guy, but..." or "I like you, but..." would definitely be worth the money.

 

[TheSolitaryMan]

They have liked me, and known that I liked them. They still don't want to make the first move.

Out of interest, do you ask a girl out or try making it evident the minute you realise she sort of likes you and you like her?

Because lots of girls will get kind of worried, back off and do the "You're a nice guy..." thing if you do that.

What you want to do is work on expanding her desire for you without explicitly stating anything to her regarding relationships.

Before you actually go out, a girl displaying mutual attraction is kind of like a good friend that you find sexually attractive, right?

Realise that girls in that situation probably see you the same way - and just want to be relaxed into being comfortable with you. For this reason you just have to act like a good friend, but step it up ever so slightly when need be.

Hang out with her as a friend, make her laugh, talk to her, show her you're nice. Then, when she needs help with something, go just slightly out of your way to help her. Or, if you're in close proximity, just let your hand "accidentally" rest against hers for a little bit or something every now and then.

This way you don't pressure a girl at all (preventing that sort of awkward "friendzone" rejection), but you make yourself more and more attractive to her.

At least, that's how I've always tried to do it - my problem has always been taking the next step of asking a girl out. Actually getting close to girls is not too difficult if you're gentle like that, I firmly believe any nice bloke can do it without needing cheesy PUA tips

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Dating just seems so complicated to me. It's much easier to just say "fresia it all, I'm single for life!"

Yes, I do ask them out as soon as I realize they like me. I thought that was the appropriate thing to do?

So let me get this straight...if I ask out too soon, I get rejected, and if I ask out too late, I get rejected?

What is the appropriate time to ask her out? I have asked this question numerous times, on at least 4 other relationship message forums, and nobody will give me a straight answer.

 

[Ak5]

Note: I post my answers based solely on logic and reasoning.

Ask her out at the opportune moment, when you know that she is into you, and you know that she is "available" so to say. The important thing is having no fear when asking her out (I know you said you are) but try not to, actually, "push" yourself to ask her out. You fear being hurt too, but you don't know that she'll say.

Again, there is no appropriate time, it depends everything on what you feel. You know she's interested, you know she probably has the weekend free, make your move. That's the part girls love, guys who are proactive and make decisions.

 

[passage]

A lot of the PUA stuff on the internet is crap. Don't pay for anything, you can find it for free. However, I do think you can incorporate a lot of it and mold it into your own "style". A lot of what this material teaches is 1)how to be social 2)how NOT to be a pushover 3) How to understand social cues (A LOT of people, especially guys, myself included, are not good at this) 4)Women are just as horny as men...etc very basic stuff.

However, if you are looking for advice on dating, its not so good. it'll show you how to get sex, with many women. And it won't happen quickly, it'll probably take years, and even then you really have to make a huge effort.

Finally, yes a lot of what they teach does work. I've gotten a lot more action thanks to the advice I've read on seduction forums. But I've also gotten rejected countless times (not that I care though).

 

[LoneKiller]

Hi LeaningIntoTheMuse.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I noticed in your post you say that you are shy and don't know how to seduce them. Are you looking for a relationship or to just get laid?

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Hi LeaningIntoTheMuse.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I noticed in your post you say that you are shy and don't know how to seduce them. Are you looking for a relationship or to just get laid?

I am looking for a relationship, that involves sex.

 

[Felix]

If I were you, I'd give it a try.

Sex is pretty much the best thing you can have.

It's really all about the pussy! Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to try to look smart or speaking out of asexual/virgin ignorance provoked by his own fears and insecurities. I'm all for art, science and sfuff like that, but nothing compares to unloading between a woman's legs.

That's the way it is, our major insticts are 1) survival 2) reproduce.

I'd say anything that could potentially help you get there is worth the try.

As for me, I'm still trying...

What I can tell you for sure, beta attitudes won't get you anything these days, in the post feminist era. You should really have a more agressive approach (in a positive way of course) or women will walk all over you. DON'T take their insecurities serious and DON'T take their honeysuckle.

Of course, you can also wait till you get lucky... but I think is better to improve yourself so you can have a better chance of choosing a girl that trully satisfies you.

 

[Lonely in BC]

If I were you, I'd give it a try.

Sex is pretty much the best thing you can have.

It's really all about the pussy! Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to try to look smart or speaking out of asexual/virgin ignorance provoked by his own fears and insecurities. I'm all for art, science and sfuff like that, but nothing compares to unloading between a woman's legs.

That's the way it is, our major insticts are 1) survival 2) reproduce.

I'd say anything that could potentially help you get there is worth the try.

As for me, I'm still trying...

What I can tell you for sure, beta attitudes won't get you anything these days, in the post feminist era. You should really have a more agressive approach (in a positive way of course) or women will walk all over you. DON'T take their insecurities serious and DON'T take their honeysuckle.

Of course, you can also wait till you get lucky... but I think is better to improve yourself so you can have a better chance of choosing a girl that trully satisfies you.

Sounds like the answer a 16 year old meat-head would give (Ak5, if you read this no slight meant to you).

Anyhow- pickup artist manuals, really? I'm pretty sure the biggest success that comes out of these "books" is lining the pockets of those who write them. I've glanced at a couple- seemed like a lot of trite nonsense to me.

I'm curious- how do you present yourself to the opposite gender? Do you come across as masculine, feminine, asexual, androgynous or something else? The reason I ask this is your choice of avatar- is that how you identify yourself or is it just a cool looking picture that you like?

I'm not judging or criticizing, just hoping to help you find what you seek.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Sounds like the answer a 16 year old meat-head would give (Ak5, if you read this no slight meant to you).

Anyhow- pickup artist manuals, really? I'm pretty sure the biggest success that comes out of these "books" is lining the pockets of those who write them. I've glanced at a couple- seemed like a lot of trite nonsense to me.

I'm curious- how do you present yourself to the opposite gender? Do you come across as masculine, feminine, asexual, androgynous or something else? The reason I ask this is your choice of avatar- is that how you identify yourself or is it just a cool looking picture that you like?

I'm not judging or criticizing, just hoping to help you find what you seek.

I wouldn't buy them. I would probably be searching for torrents of them. I would never throw money at those guys!

Anyway, I suppose I am a bit androgynous, because I have a very feminine face. However, I identify as male, and usually sport a beard (so I look more like Kurt Cobain or a modern day John Lennon, than, say, Michael Jackson.)

None of that has to do with my avatar, which has more to do with being a fan of Emma Watson and Harry Potter than anything else.

 

[Felix]

If I were you, I'd give it a try.

Sex is pretty much the best thing you can have.

It's really all about the pussy! Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to try to look smart or speaking out of asexual/virgin ignorance provoked by his own fears and insecurities. I'm all for art, science and sfuff like that, but nothing compares to unloading between a woman's legs.

That's the way it is, our major insticts are 1) survival 2) reproduce.

I'd say anything that could potentially help you get there is worth the try.

As for me, I'm still trying...

What I can tell you for sure, beta attitudes won't get you anything these days, in the post feminist era. You should really have a more agressive approach (in a positive way of course) or women will walk all over you. DON'T take their insecurities serious and DON'T take their honeysuckle.

Of course, you can also wait till you get lucky... but I think is better to improve yourself so you can have a better chance of choosing a girl that trully satisfies you.

Sounds like the answer a 16 year old meat-head would give (Ak5, if you read this no slight meant to you).

Anyhow- pickup artist manuals, really? I'm pretty sure the biggest success that comes out of these "books" is lining the pockets of those who write them. I've glanced at a couple- seemed like a lot of trite nonsense to me.

I'm curious- how do you present yourself to the opposite gender? Do you come across as masculine, feminine, asexual, androgynous or something else? The reason I ask this is your choice of avatar- is that how you identify yourself or is it just a cool looking picture that you like?

I'm not judging or criticizing, just hoping to help you find what you seek.

WTF is your problem?
You sound full of prejudice, maybe you should get out more and try to see for yourself how things really are before insulting other people. And actaully pick up a book and read it before you trash it. There is bs in PUA books just like there is in anything that is non scientific like selfimprovement books or fitness. You just have to go trough it.

---

Anyways, for any man who is out there looking clueless for where to begin I'd say start with "The game".

For all those who criticize without knowing, the book concludes there is more to it than PUA stuff. the guy actually falls in love and realizes some of his mates are bullshiters and unhappy.

Then I liked "How to dominate woman". The guy is crazy and sexist to the core, but has some right points that might provide appropiate guidance for those who are always pushed over by women by getting befriended.

 

[AFrozenSoul]

Does the South Beach Diet work? At the end of the day you have to commit to the process. At the end of the day these things might work if you commit. When I say commit, I mean you have to be willing to do everything they say. A lot of them will say stuff that you will be uncomfortable doing. It did not work for me. However, I only did it... 2 weekends. Most guys I talk to on forums dedicated to that kind of thing say they went around 6 months to 18 months of just going out and failing many times a week before they started to get good at it or get any.

So the real investment with PUA products is in the classes. Most classes are intense weekend long classes that can cost around $2000. Often times it is talking about the methods and going out at night and applying them. The problem is that the books are cheap. However, they are shallow on each individual topic. Often times more details are sold in more expensive packages. Granted from what I have seen and heard. Those products are pretty in depth. Actually it is kind of funny. One of the most active sub-forums in the forum I was on is the relationship forum. So do not think that it is just about seducing women. It is about getting good with them. It is giving you a tool that you can use as you want. Most men say that it makes them better people in general. They have more friends, male and female, people like them more, and life is overall better.

So I say, find a book. JUST a book, most of them cost $60. Read the book, join a forum and go out and practice. See what happens, I know plenty of guys who are way more successful with women. Because they used these products. If anything I say read one or two because they are interesting reads. I uhh obtained one video with a guy who said that men have been meeting women before these books and they will do so after these books.

 

[Peter Lorre]

I should write a PUA handbook sometime if people are willing to pay for that stuff, lol.

It's hard to advice you when I've never seen you 'in action'. I don't know how you look, how you act, what kind of things you say and how you time them. I have no clue as to which women you 'target', so it's hard to tell if it's your fault or theirs.

The one thing that works is to show genuine interest. Don't fake anything, don't pay for the meal because it's 'gentlemanlike' and because 'it'll leave a great impression'. Don't tell her things that you think she might want to hear because you've seen it work in some romantic comedy, don't take her out to her favourite spot or to her favourite ballet recital (or whatever she likes/can't stop talking about) because you think it'll get you some 'good points' or 'instant sex', do it because you want to see her happy. Don't pretend to be interested in what she says while dating, be genuinely interested, keep an open mind and tell yourself that you might actually learn something new and exciting. Do the things you do because you believe in them, because they mean something to you (and the person you want to be perceived as).

People want to date someone who's interesting. goodlooking, thoughtful and genuine. If they feel you handle dating too much as a science - preoccupied with 'moves', 'theories' and 'scoring points' - then they'll lose interest. Girls want a nice guy, but not someone who's pretending to be one or who's trying too much to show off how nice he is exactly. I guess a good rule of thumb are the two B's: Believe (in what you do/say) and Balance.