Echo Chambers

[Tealeaf]

This is something I notice extensively online that's begun to worry me more and more over the years, though I was once a victim of it, too. It especially happens in subcultures and on mental health forums.

A person who feels misunderstood turns to an online community. The online community communicates and thinks like them, and is therefore good. The person struggles to communicate with people outside the community, and is told by the community that people outside are bad, stupid, should be feared, etc, sometimes even by people who just assume that if they say someone has been being mean to them it's true. The person, despite having the capacity to have a multifaceted personality, restricts themselves to what is essentially an echo chamber that they can't socialize outside of - why bother if everyone else is bad?

Nine out of ten times, person has communication problems or poor social skills and nobody is actually malicious toward them beyond a few tough guys at school or work. Examples include someone questioning their subculture being labeled as an assault on their identity and a missed text message being labeled as a passive-aggressive "fresia you."

At the root of most human problems is communication, fear, and mismatched expectations, not malice.

It worries me because when I was 15 I only socialized with two offline friends and one online subculture, and that was the most miserable time of my life. The people who told me to wake the fresia up and questioned my habits pretty much saved my life, because they forced me to broaden my horizons, stop taking everything to heart, and learn to communicate with a wider range of people instead of restricting myself to that one community and those two people who were easy and obvious.

I have to wonder if some of the people I knew when I was 15 are still stuck in those communities, believing that everyone outside of them is dangerous, ignorant, and untrustworthy and that the only place for them is with people exactly like them.

The things some people are told to leave their friends over because it's evidence that they're uncaring or untrustworthy? Those things would have lost me every friend I've ever had, including the two I've known for almost ten years, and over text messaging habits and communication problems at that.

Some days I worry every place I used to believe was good is actually poisoning people.

 

[el Jay]

I think everyone tends to gravitate towards like-minded people, and that is how groups/societies/cultures end up forming and evolving. It's of course up to people to be open-minded enough so that rather than shut out the rest of the world, they accept it. But no one is always right, and no one is always wrong. Someone you trust for advice could inadvertently lead you astray because they aren't perfect themselves, and people who you have no reason to ever listen to could one day be telling you just what you need to hear. So people end up listening to and staying within their group because even if they aren't always right, they'll generally be right enough to keep you going within that group.

My mom, as great of a mother she is and despite how much she does love me and wants me to be happy, is terrible with advice in my adult life, it seems. She's overly blunt, very critical of things, and often focuses far too much on making sure I'm fully aware of the negative aspects and possible negative consequences of any given choice or decision I face. She doesn't realize I ALREADY agonize over the negatives far, far too much to be healthy, and that what I need most from her is to be POSITIVE. To give encouragement. She ends up killing whatever desire and will I have to do something with her negativity, and when confronted with this, she argues that she won't stop doing this because she doesn't want to give me false hope or convince me to do something that could hurt me, only to have me blame her for not stopping me.

If it weren't for her, I probably would've gone to a psychologist about my problems three years ago, and very likely be in a MUCH better place than I am now (since I'm only now getting around to finding a psychologist). Instead, when I talked to her about it, she spread doom and gloom about how they'd put me on meds and the meds would destroy any will I had to even try doing stuff, and I'd just lay in bed all day every day not doing anything, and that I wouldn't even be smart enough to just stop taking the meds if that happened. Seems really stupid to have let that stop me, but that was by far the darkest and most depressed point in my life, when I had almost NO ONE else at all in my life, not even a real friend. Hearing the one person in my life who I would think I could trust most rail against it so negatively put me off from it for years.


Seems like all we can do is trust that we're smart enough to recognize and follow good advice and brave enough to accept the consequences when we end up listening to bad advice.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I nver thought about echo chambers before. Interesting.

 

[Misanthrope23]

This is something I notice extensively online that's begun to worry me more and more over the years, though I was once a victim of it, too. It especially happens in subcultures and on mental health forums.

A person who feels misunderstood turns to an online community. The online community communicates and thinks like them, and is therefore good. The person struggles to communicate with people outside the community, and is told by the community that people outside are bad, stupid, should be feared, etc, sometimes even by people who just assume that if they say someone has been being mean to them it's true. The person, despite having the capacity to have a multifaceted personality, restricts themselves to what is essentially an echo chamber that they can't socialize outside of - why bother if everyone else is bad?

Nine out of ten times, person has communication problems or poor social skills and nobody is actually malicious toward them beyond a few tough guys at school or work. Examples include someone questioning their subculture being labeled as an assault on their identity and a missed text message being labeled as a passive-aggressive "fresia you."

At the root of most human problems is communication, fear, and mismatched expectations, not malice.

It worries me because when I was 15 I only socialized with two offline friends and one online subculture, and that was the most miserable time of my life. The people who told me to wake the fresia up and questioned my habits pretty much saved my life, because they forced me to broaden my horizons, stop taking everything to heart, and learn to communicate with a wider range of people instead of restricting myself to that one community and those two people who were easy and obvious.

I have to wonder if some of the people I knew when I was 15 are still stuck in those communities, believing that everyone outside of them is dangerous, ignorant, and untrustworthy and that the only place for them is with people exactly like them.

The things some people are told to leave their friends over because it's evidence that they're uncaring or untrustworthy? Those things would have lost me every friend I've ever had, including the two I've known for almost ten years, and over text messaging habits and communication problems at that.

Some days I worry every place I used to believe was good is actually poisoning people.

well at least this site isn't like what you mentioned. people here instead encourage positivity and accepting others for who they are, and in return they'll accept who you are. i haven't met anyone here that said that anyone outside of our community is bad or untrustworthy.

 

[perfanoff]

This forum is something of an anti-"echo chamber" for me so I've stuck here.

The real reason I sought this place out was to see how other people can have a different perception of life and of reality, and be able to understand others more. I also wanted to know about some of life's problems that you can stumble on along the way.

Needless to say, I've still got my own view of the world, but I hope to enrich it by participating here.

 

[Tealeaf]

I think everyone tends to gravitate towards like-minded people, and that is how groups/societies/cultures end up forming and evolving. It's of course up to people to be open-minded enough so that rather than shut out the rest of the world, they accept it. But no one is always right, and no one is always wrong. Someone you trust for advice could inadvertently lead you astray because they aren't perfect themselves, and people who you have no reason to ever listen to could one day be telling you just what you need to hear. So people end up listening to and staying within their group because even if they aren't always right, they'll generally be right enough to keep you going within that group.

My mom, as great of a mother she is and despite how much she does love me and wants me to be happy, is terrible with advice in my adult life, it seems. She's overly blunt, very critical of things, and often focuses far too much on making sure I'm fully aware of the negative aspects and possible negative consequences of any given choice or decision I face. She doesn't realize I ALREADY agonize over the negatives far, far too much to be healthy, and that what I need most from her is to be POSITIVE. To give encouragement. She ends up killing whatever desire and will I have to do something with her negativity, and when confronted with this, she argues that she won't stop doing this because she doesn't want to give me false hope or convince me to do something that could hurt me, only to have me blame her for not stopping me.

If it weren't for her, I probably would've gone to a psychologist about my problems three years ago, and very likely be in a MUCH better place than I am now (since I'm only now getting around to finding a psychologist). Instead, when I talked to her about it, she spread doom and gloom about how they'd put me on meds and the meds would destroy any will I had to even try doing stuff, and I'd just lay in bed all day every day not doing anything, and that I wouldn't even be smart enough to just stop taking the meds if that happened. Seems really stupid to have let that stop me, but that was by far the darkest and most depressed point in my life, when I had almost NO ONE else at all in my life, not even a real friend. Hearing the one person in my life who I would think I could trust most rail against it so negatively put me off from it for years.


Seems like all we can do is trust that we're smart enough to recognize and follow good advice and brave enough to accept the consequences when we end up listening to bad advice.

The issue being that it often involves encouragement to be close-minded. People first and foremost like to believe what's emotionally pleasant or safe, so when they're met with people agreeing with their fallacious thinking patterns are they going to challenge it or allow it to be challenged or are they just going to hop on board with the people who make them feel good, even if it's wrong?

Of course it's natural. That's exactly why it's terrible. Very little about human nature is actually good for us socially, emotionally, or intellectually in the society we've been trying to build since we stopped being cavemen.

I grew up with people challenging my thinking patterns and perceptions, and I credit a lot of my improvements in anxiety and offline social skills to that. If a text message was late, my assumptions about the reason and the character of the recipient were questioned. If I complained about people being dicks to me for no reason, what they actually said was asked and thought about to be sure it was interpreted correctly. If I assumed everyone doing something I didn't like or understand was stupid, shallow, etc, that viewpoint was challenged, too. There were few people "like me" at all, and with nobody feeding me reasons to dislike, distrust, or fear those unlike me I shrugged and spent time with them, instead.

What happens to people who are met with a crowd of people agreeing with them that their late-text "friend" is a jackass and they need better friends, though? What happens to people who interpret a joke in poor taste as deliberate bullying and are encouraged to insult the person back or refuse to talk to them ever again? What happens to the people who are praised as more intelligent, less shallow, and more moral for being angry or looking down on others over miniscule things such as enjoyment of social networking websites or clubs?

I doubt they're fantastic friends with Facebook-loving, crass-joke-making, slow-texting people ten years after meeting them and after being given significant help, somehow - not unless they ignore the waves of shitty advice. The ones who need support the most are the ones least capable of deciphering these things on their own.

The worst part is that people often give few to no details about their problems, so we either assume that if someone says others are being mean to them then that's exactly what happens (most) or we assume that there's more to the story because most small scale human problems are a matter of communication (me) . We choose whether we encourage someone and risk encouraging fallacious thinking rather than bolstering someone in trouble or struggle against the odds to get people to dissect an issue.

It's like trying to fix a computer problem when all someone will say is "Help! Help! The Internet doesn't work!" with people shouting back "Read a book instead!" or "Turn it off, then on again!"

This goes on all over the place, of course, it just seems especially bad in communities that are supposed to be helpful. The communities that helped me the most were ironically considered terrible places for support.

 

[aspalas]

Please note; I've only read the opening post and the first reaction.

I don't see this forum as a real community. I see it as a place to get and give advice. Advice to help yourself and others with their problems in the real world. I don't see this as a place where people are told that people in the outside world are bad, dangerous, etc. etc. I see this as a place to learn how to deal with stuff from like-minded people.

 

[ucxb]

This is something I notice extensively online that's begun to worry me more and more over the years, though I was once a victim of it, too. It especially happens in subcultures and on mental health forums.

A person who feels misunderstood turns to an online community. The online community communicates and thinks like them, and is therefore good. The person struggles to communicate with people outside the community, and is told by the community that people outside are bad, stupid, should be feared, etc, sometimes even by people who just assume that if they say someone has been being mean to them it's true. The person, despite having the capacity to have a multifaceted personality, restricts themselves to what is essentially an echo chamber that they can't socialize outside of - why bother if everyone else is bad?

Nine out of ten times, person has communication problems or poor social skills and nobody is actually malicious toward them beyond a few tough guys at school or work. Examples include someone questioning their subculture being labeled as an assault on their identity and a missed text message being labeled as a passive-aggressive "fresia you."

At the root of most human problems is communication, fear, and mismatched expectations, not malice.

It worries me because when I was 15 I only socialized with two offline friends and one online subculture, and that was the most miserable time of my life. The people who told me to wake the fresia up and questioned my habits pretty much saved my life, because they forced me to broaden my horizons, stop taking everything to heart, and learn to communicate with a wider range of people instead of restricting myself to that one community and those two people who were easy and obvious.

I have to wonder if some of the people I knew when I was 15 are still stuck in those communities, believing that everyone outside of them is dangerous, ignorant, and untrustworthy and that the only place for them is with people exactly like them.

The things some people are told to leave their friends over because it's evidence that they're uncaring or untrustworthy? Those things would have lost me every friend I've ever had, including the two I've known for almost ten years, and over text messaging habits and communication problems at that.

Some days I worry every place I used to believe was good is actually poisoning people.

I wonder about being misunderstood based on peoples questions and my responses and their reactions, just as I do with a handful of people I have had in my life for years. The ones that know me tend to ask a lot of questions and will keep reacting as if I spoke an unknown language to them.

You bring up really good points, I know this is an older post and all, but appreciate you sharing such

 

[kamya]

It's actually a thing and is usually seen as a form of abuse. I wrote on this before on 4chan(it's actually a cool place sometimes) so I'll try to paraphrase. A lot of activist groups rely on this gain numbers and power.

They find young vulnerable people that are dealing with different problems and accept them into their community and tell them they are wonderful and special. Then they will make members feel guilty if they don't treat others the same way. (sounds not so bad so far right?) Each group has their own hierarchy and agenda and they start making you see the world in terms of this hierarchy. Soon you will slowly alienate yourself from friends and family. Did someone make a sexist or racist joke? Cut them out. Any conservative friends? Cut them out. Do they not accept our hierarchy of power as truth? Cut them out. Until eventually, they aren't already a member of our community? Cut them out.

You'll start nagging and "calling people out" on every little thing they do that is considered "wrong". It changes your perceptions and turns you into a victim and puts you on the constant defensive. You start to see your circumstances as only being caused by external elements that you have no control over, when in reality, it's you that is ******* up your life. However, you see it like nothing is your fault, and it's the oppression of society that is causing all of the problems in your life. So eventually you've cut everyone out of your life and the group is the only support you have left. Because of that you will go with whatever the group goes with or risk losing the only support you have.

Lets say you disagree with some points. You are cast out and yelled at and judged and guilted into feeling like crap until you change your mind and come grovelling back, hoping to be one of the group again.

The people at the top will use you and your numbers to do whatever they want you to do. Almost like a cult, only they get to claim to fight in the name of social justice, or whatever cause the group is about. I framed this explanation around social justice groups because they are especially toxic, but really the same ideas can apply to almost any group.

Find someone vulnerable, jump on them, pull them in by giving them what they want and need, use this as leverage to assert control, isolate them from outside support, begin to withhold what you originally offered until they obey, use them for whatever you want.

 

[Omnisiac]

That's a perfect definition, albiet a long one, of a cult.

 

[kamya]

Scary how similar cults and activists groups are mhmm.

 

[ardour]

Lonely bigotry lol ... was the OP suggesting that people on this site are guilty?
I don't hear many people complaining about missed texts. There are some very lonely people here. Sites like this are somewhere where we can talk and interact with others. That simple. Where's the harm?

 

[kamya]

It doesn't happen everywhere. Just some communities are like that.

 

[perfanoff]

Lonely bigotry lol ... was the OP suggesting that people on this site are guilty?
I don't hear many people complaining about missed texts. There are some very lonely people here. Sites like this are somewhere where we can talk and interact with others. That simple. Where's the harm?

OP, while she was here, tended to use pretty strong anti-logic.
Still baffles me how she could have reached all the conclusions she kept getting to.