If happy ever afters did exist...

[M_also_lonely]

This isn't really an issue. But something that I have had in mind.
I have deeply observed married couples and people in relationships over the years. From lifelong relationships to the short ones.
I had always wondered what was it about some of them, that they were extremely successful. And would look like the happiest couple ever.
People who seemed perfect for each other, or "made for each other". How did they do it and I couldn't?
While others truly struggled. And in some cases, made lives more miserable by being together.

A straightforward approach to understand this would be to observe what kind of communication they have with each other. How they manage situations with each other.
But this approach is utterly wrong. It tells you nothing of worth.

When I used to be a simp, the romantic lover, I always wished I found my 'soul-mate'. At many points, I thought I did. Only to be called a "potential rapist" due to my dark circled, creepy eyes or to catch them getting laid in a car after having told me that they prefer to stay 'clean' (their words) until marriage. But I feel lucky that they were blunt, otherwise I would never have stopped being a beggar for love.
I always used to blame myself for that. But then again, why blame them either? Does anyone have to be blamed always?

Luckily, my sadness turned into anger very quickly. Otherwise I would be stuck in this forever. Since anger is easier to defeat than sadness and depression.

Anyways, so a lot of us look for 'soul-mates'. Which is a deeply flawed idea, it comes out of entitlement. And if you don't get them, you have something to be a victim about.
Victimhood complex is nothing but a form of bragging. "Look at my miseries, how great sufferings have I gone through, I must be a great person."

The ONLY people who were happy with their partners, were those who were happy BEFORE they were partners. This is an absolutely coherent trait that I have observed in ALL the happy couples I have seen. The ones that were happy without each other, were the only ones whose joy only compounded when they found each other.

The idea that you will be happy once you find a lover, is WRONG. I have experienced that. It might be exciting for a while, you finally have someone who loves you (?), appreciates and supports you. But this only lasts until the honeymoon phase. Once it becomes the new normal, you start going back to your normal ways. If you have treated everyone else with disrespect, hatred, suspicion, etc. you will treat your partner the same way as well. Eventually. Sooner or later.
If you were annoyed by the tiny imperfections of others, you won't find your lover's imperfections 'cute' for a long time. They will eventually annoy you.
If you have treated everyone with love and respect, you will treat your partner that way. And if this is exactly what your partner has done, you are definitely going to have a great and a long one.
To those who have NEVER found any partner, you must realize that all your fantasies only make up for the initial months. After that, its not too much different. So the idea that you will be happy once and only when you have a partner, is going to destroy your life.
You cannot be hating someone but loving your partner. This is not possible.

 

[Finished]

I understand your point and it's accurate, IMO, in many cases. But, it's too simplistic. Some people cannot be happy by themselves and need to have a partner. The aren't haters. The are lonely. They need companionship to be happy. Some people are lazy unless someone else is pushing them along. Some people have no motivation or need to do anything in life. But, a partner can give them the motivation they need.

For instance, I have no desire or need to leave my mark on this world. I do not have a need to gain as much wealthy as I can. I believe I have enough money to get me to the finish line so I no longer work. I don't have the need to feel important or be a "big" man so I'm mostly invisible.

However, If I was married to someone and they worked and / or needed things then I would absolutely be working and making as much as I could. If they or I had kids then I would feel the need to create a large nest egg to help them out.

I have found that, a good percentage IMO, successful long term relationships require a need from one another for different reasons. Some times that is finances, babies, companionship, respect, physical touch, love, etc, etc, etc. When one partner isn't needed for something it starts to break down the relationship.

Being needed feels good and can help someone happy. Not being needed can feel very bad.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

I understand your point and it's accurate, IMO, in many cases. But, it's too simplistic. Some people cannot be happy by themselves and need to have a partner. The aren't haters. The are lonely. They need companionship to be happy. Some people are lazy unless someone else is pushing them along. Some people have no motivation or need to do anything in life. But, a partner can give them the motivation they need.

For instance, I have no desire or need to leave my mark on this world. I do not have a need to gain as much wealthy as I can. I believe I have enough money to get me to the finish line so I no longer work. I don't have the need to feel important or be a "big" man so I'm mostly invisible.

However, If I was married to someone and they worked and / or needed things then I would absolutely be working and making as much as I could. If they or I had kids then I would feel the need to create a large nest egg to help them out.

I have found that, a good percentage IMO, successful long term relationships require a need from one another for different reasons. Some times that is finances, babies, companionship, respect, physical touch, love, etc, etc, etc. When one partner isn't needed for something it starts to break down the relationship.

Being needed feels good and can help someone happy. Not being needed can feel very bad.

I agree, single me... is no where near as amazing as taken me. I achieve so much more with the right man by my side. However, the wrong man by my side is detrimental. So settling is a huge issue, and something I think no one should do. I think all relationships go through what they go through, communication is so important but so is forgiveness, now, one mistake means the end... theres no empathises on building and working through it. Without that, there would be no long term relationships because none of them are perfect.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Part of it is upbringing too. I've noticed that, being the product of a divorced household, I tend to be quite divided in how I go about my love affairs. Everything is always split in two, has this or that, and I seek out those unresolved antagonisms, and when they aren't present, I can't be satisfied with the good, or cause my own problems.

I think most of us are usually just a mess; and, as you say, it's probably a rare thing, that two messes, happen to clean each other up.

Love, sex, intimacy, procreation, pair bonding, and tournaments... It's not a Disney movie out there.

Ultimately, it seems, at the end of it, life is just about doing your duty, if you can even manage that, and then you'll die some day.

But, it's rather beautiful, and eloquent some times, whether alone or with some one else, the stars, sunsets, the moon, talking with some one enjoyably, having a meal together...

To want, is to not have. To have, means to some day be without, to lose.

 

[user 136944]

IMO, I think much of your post is demonstrating 'black and white thinking.' The whole 'love' thing is a very complex subject and often lies as a shade of grey somewhere in the middle, even the difference between how men and women feel attraction and love is different between the two.

 

[ardour]

Those stable couples would not have gone through the loss of personal and financial freedom if it didn't add something significant to their lives. Were they happy alone? How could you know that?

Relationship won't solve low self-esteem. Agree on that. You're likely to think there's something wrong a partner for wanting you. Learning to at least respect yourself is probably a minimum before considering relationships. But loving being alone? Ah no. People risk everything for marriage/kids knowing there's a 50% fail rate.

 

[CenotaphGirl]

Those stable couples would not have gone through the loss of personal and financial freedom if it didn't add something significant to their lives. Were they happy alone? I'm not sure how could you know that.

Relationship won't solve low self-esteem. Agree on that. You're likely to think there's something wrong a partner for wanting you. Learning to at least respect yourself is probably a minimum before considering relationships. But loving being alone? Ah no. People risk everything for marriage/kids knowing there's a 50% fail rate.

You’re sooooo romantic Ardour… gives me chills You guys know how much I loveeee love

 

[user 148069]

I agree with you in a sense that relying on a relationship for happiness alone or having this idea that a relationship can save you is not the best way to do life.

In a perfect world everyone should already be happy and secure with who they are before getting in a relationship. However, I agree with another poster here that your ideas may be too black and white. Humans are not infallible beings and are flawed, even the most well adjusted of people.

Anyways, so a lot of us look for 'soul-mates'. Which is a deeply flawed idea, it comes out of entitlement. And if you don't get them, you have something to be a victim about.
Victimhood complex is nothing but a form of bragging. "Look at my miseries, how great sufferings have I gone through, I must be a great person."

I think it's not trying to be a victim or to use it to look like the better person. There was a time when I use to think like you. However after re-reading some threads on here, I think I'm slowly starting to understand the other side of the issue.

For some people who have been rejected over and over again it can be soul crushing and of course they would start to wonder what is so wrong with them that they can't find even one person to like them. Many people here are really too hard on themselves and I think some compassion would help.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I don't, and can't, agree with the idea that it's an entitlement issue. It's a quality of life issue. If you're not in a romantic relationship, and you're not a kid, then there's a huge part of your quality of life that's missing.

Coupled life is better than single life. Just like having friends is better than having no friends. Or having somewhere to live is better than living on the street. I don't think it's true that you can only truly be happy, if you were happy before you had these things. I think a lot of people's unhappiness is the result of their needs going unmet, whether it's physical, mental, or emotional, and being stuck languishing in a bad quality of life as a result.

I feel like stuff like living somewhere, having friends, and having a romantic relationship is the baseline in life. It's normal. If you have these things, you're just doing OK, not even great - it's just the standard way to live. A romantic relationship is one of those things that, if you don't have one, your quality of life is below normal, and it suffers a lot.

I feel like there's this push today to get people to rethink romantic relationships as this exotic extra that's only for the luckiest people, like being a multi-millionaire or a celebrity, when it used to be thought of as this thing like learning to tie your shoes, ride a bike swim, drive a car, graduate, make friends, and so on, where it was something that everyone did as just another normal part of life. I feel like it's weird, it's like, does anyone else remember when dating used to be thought of as this normal thing that just happened once you reached a certain age, and that it was normal to think of coupling off as a normal part of life instead of this exotic luxury? Am I just old or something and remembering how things used to be a long time ago? Or was it just me that thought of it this way and everyone else thought of it as a luxury this whole time?

I mean, again, it's like friendship. Growing up, everyone had friends. Even the kids who didn't have money or weren't good-looking or whatever had friends. Were they popular? No, they were often treated in a shitty way. But they at least had somebody to be friends with.

Or dating growing up. Sure, the hot girls only dated the jocks. But other people dated, too.

I'm just very much against this push that you see more and more these days in different areas of life, to get people to accept a worse world than the way things used to be as "the new normal", and I distinctly remember things being better than this as normal not even that long ago.

It's both special to have a romantic relationship, but also mundane at the same time. If you look around you, there are couples everywhere. And very few if any of the guys are CEOs, professional athletes, rock stars, A-list actors, and so on, and very few of the women are supermodels or something. They're mostly just normal everyday people, who frankly probably aren't doing anything that interesting or special with their lives beyond just working normal jobs and going home. I don't think they think too much about "self-improvement" or any of that honeysuckle, or are constantly looking for ways to maximize their lives. I don't think they're doing anything special, or unique, anything above and beyond, or putting that much conscious thought and effort into their lives at all. I think they just live normally.

That's what makes me mad about all this "oh you have to self-improve" honeysuckle. I guarantee you most people really aren't doing that at all. They're not sitting at home reading all kinds of Tony Robbins books, or micromanaging every aspect of their lives for maximum productivity, achievement, or innovation. They're just living one day to the next. And they get relationships anyway. Meanwhile, I feel like I have to be some kind of superhuman, just to have a fraction of a chance at all. Some days I feel like I have to have the body of a professional athlete, the brains of a CEO, the stories and poetic mind of a rock star, the wit of a professional comedian, and the cocky/"funny"/casually smug and superior ******* attitude of a guy who's gotten his way all his life not by consciously thinking about anything but just by existing, just to be taken seriously a contender. Maybe I'm psyching myself out, I don't know.

Sure, it's not normal to date supermodels, or to feel like you're missing out if you're not able to date them. But it's normal to date at all. And if you feel like you can't do this thing that is just one of life's standards, whether it's dating, making friends, graduating school, whatever the case may be, then yeah, it definitely feels like something big is missing from your life.

Extras are great. But at least being normal is absolutely essential for self-esteem, peace of mind, and your actual quality of life.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Some people cannot be happy by themselves and need to have a partner. The aren't haters. The are lonely. They need companionship to be happy.

Agreed with this. To me, it's easier to assume that the reason someone is unhappy not being in a relationship is loneliness, rather than just playing the victim/being a hater or whatever. Most people want relationships, they can't just switch it off and live like machines and do just as well just going to work and going home, rinse wash repeat. When you're not in a relationship I feel like almost everything gets stale, it's like "this is it...???" And then you feel like you're just going through the motions, just killing time, just trying to distract yourself instead of really living.

However after re-reading some threads on here, I think I'm slowly starting to understand the other side of the issue.

For some people who have been rejected over and over again it can be soul crushing and of course they would start to wonder what is so wrong with them that they can't find even one person to like them.

Good on you for attempting to see things from outside your own experiences, it's always refreshing when people are able to even try to do this instead of mindlessly bashing people with "I've got mine, f you" invalidation tactics to stroke their own ego and pretend they are social "insiders".

 

[Tiddytok]

Only for 1% or less of the world.