Very sorry for this long post, but I have much to explain.
(Sorry, I love talking about Philosophy.)
ABrokenMan said:
How the heck would mankind reproduce if man and woman were not meant to be together?
Simple realization, but tis true.
How is this relevant, exactly?
As far as I know, I don't see anyone here suggesting that reproduction is necessary for happiness. Are you implying that it is?
ABrokenMan said:
Loneliness is not a natural state of being. You personally may be all comfy with it, or accept it and remain either indifferent or depressed, but it ain't the way the MAJORITY of men and woman are supposed to live their lives.
I have to disagree with you here... You have this view as if there is a way that things are "supposed" to be. But where do you get this idea from?
In actuality there is no explicit 'purpose' for humanity. There is nothing we are 'supposed' to do because there is no rulebook, there are no guidelines. We are not born with a manual.
Even speaking of the most 'natural state of being', you can't enforce this ideal that humanity is "supposed" to reproduce and be happy because it simply just does not exist in that way. The most 'natural state of being' would be more like whatever we consider to be our personal desires. Not everyone wants love, not everyone wants kids, not everyone wants sex.
Hey, not even all men/women even want the opposite sex. Are you really saying that this is "unnatural" despite the fact they are born with this trait and it's not a choice? Because I'm sure there's more than enough people who would disagree with you there... very strongly disagree.
So tell me, where are you getting this idea from that anyone at all is actually "supposed" to do anything?
I have to disagree with this concept entirely because I see no basis for it anywhere.
ABrokenMan said:
Your "monks" example is an exception, an example selected to fit your argument which I find to be irrelevant to the topic. Why? Because the monk has made a conscious, reasoned choice to live in such a manner - rules and such are shaped by the methodology of the religious sect.
Did you even read my previous post? Now it seems like you didn't or you're just completely missing the point entirely.
Yes, they made a reasoned choice to do that. That's the point. People can reason and think and they have a will to choose. That's the whole point of what I was talking about. People can overlook their instincts and their primitive natures to do something else. As I explained, I stated that to do so was in fact to 'grow as people'.
But let me go one step further - reasoning and making personal choices is not just the growth of an individual, it is the very essence of humanity. It is what divides humanity from the animals. The ability to overthrow instincts and primitivity and to think and to reason and to become something different than simply what were were biologically designed to do.
Without reason and without choice, there is only stagnation. Nothing changes.
And while this is also a part of humanity, at least for now, it is in a way the very denial of their humanity. When one refuses to use reason to understand both the world and themselves and therefore excludes the possibility of making rational choices in their lives, they are denying what makes them human and merely acting as an animal does.
ABrokenMan said:
You want to become a monk? Then you must consciously "sacrifice" your soul by giving up / going without, all in the name of your God. To imply that someone who is not happy being alone develop a mindset which encourages him / her to live in such a state where partner companionship is unimportant and, egad, unnecessary, is absurd.
You've only built a straw man, and this goes a step too far with it.
I'm not suggesting everyone live like monks. I believe I even stated that. You implying that I suggested this is just... wrong.
However, to get the core of this, what you're implying is that someone must be naturally happy being alone, and that this isn't a learned trait.
Again, I disagree. No one is happy being alone, originally. As I explained, we are all instinctively and naturally looking for that comfort of 'togetherness'. It is driven within us from the time when we were born and during our entire childhood. We are rather forced to depend on others to survive. It becomes built into us.
Yet, as I explained above, humanity has the ability to reason and to choose. They can overcome this desire and they can break out of this mentality, all by choice. By making that conscious and rational decision that they do not need others to survive and that they can and will survive on their own. That they will develop and grow on their own, and that they can be happy in this state.
It is something that must be 'learned' in this way. It's nothing that we're born with.
Though some people may indeed have an easier time with it than others, because of their personality, but inevitably we normally desire something else. That's why a choice must be made.
The monks ARE indeed an exception but very intentionally so. They are the exception to make clear that this is possible and very intentionally to explain that it is a conscious decision. If you felt that I was only using it to justify my statements, rather than as an example, then you are completely and entirely missing the point of every word I stated earlier.
ABrokenMan said:
People who say they are comfy with being alone - booey for you. But that is not natural, it goes against evolutionary programming.
You're trying to use science to justify your statements, but these statements of yours are absolutely not supported by science.
How is it not entirely natural, and how does it go against "evolutionary programming", to be "comfy with being alone"? You're looking over the fact that the state of being able to be "comfy with being alone" might have developed from the fact that many individuals in a species must be alone a lot of the time and still survive. They must learn to become independent, rather than constantly be dependent.
It's true that humanity is a herd-like animal, but this isn't to suggest that evolution has somehow 'programmed' every single human to never be able to survive independently.
Again, the most basic 'evolutionary' aspect of humanity that sets it apart from the other animals is that they have the ability to reason and to choose and to think on a higher level. This gives all human beings an advantage in being able to make conscious decisions in the way they live, and so these conscious decisions ARE "natural".
You're confusing 'natural life' with 'nature' itself. There is a difference. Someone doesn't have to follow every instinct to be 'one with nature'. Nor does enjoying man-made things, or living in man-made buildings, defy someone's natural existence. They can still be who they are, and who they want to be, without living out in a forest or "living off the land".
Furthermore, you're also suggesting that not only is it 'right' to follow primitivity and instincts over reason but that people are "supposed" to do this. Why?
You know, I can prove even you don't follow this ideology. Are you living off the land? Do you go out and club your mates over the head and drag them back to your cave? How are you even using a computer right now? Are you "supposed" to be doing that?
Needless to say, you're either being a hypocrite or you don't really fully believe this stuff yourself.
ABrokenMan said:
I may be content for a time being unattached without companionship of a female, but no way for my entire life.
And though this is irrelevant now... What is wrong with being content just for a little while? Again, I never stated everyone should become a monk or go live alone.
There is a difference between 'content with being alone' and 'attempting to be alone'. You don't need to try to always be alone just to be content with it and not be a miserable person.
ABrokenMan said:
If you have never been in a relationship, but desire one at an older age, it must feel excruciating and soul crushing. Unless you're blocking emotion and in denial, like an alcoholic.
If someone has never had a relationship before, why would the realization that they wanted one later be so intense? I see no reason why it would be. If they were fine for all those years before, why would it suddenly change?
I can't see why it'd be all that much different than a younger person who has wanted a relationship for just as long. The only difference would be the age, which could impact the feelings, but there would still be no reason for such intensity.
It'd be like never having ice cream and then one day when you're older you want to try it. If you don't get to try it is it really going to be that bad? You've never even had it so you don't even know if you'd like it or not. There would be no reason for the person to get intensely upset because they don't know what they are missing out on and likely won't care all that much if they'd gone that whole time without it.
ABrokenMan said:
When I was in a close relationship, everything in my life turned 1000% exponentially better. Health. Outlook. Mental focus. Confidence. Self esteem blossomed, because now I felt I had someone who believed in me and loved me. It made me feel alive. Sounds lame, but colors went from opaque to brilliant.
Now that I'm without a relationship, much of what was grown has withered away.
And, no offense, but that is because you are dependent on others. You rely on someone else to make you happy.
You even, apparently, refuse the very possibility that being happy or content by yourself is even an option. You seem to label it as "unnatural" and disregard it and throw it away entirely. It isn't "supposed" to be that way, right? That's what you've said.
As I have explained, we all make conscious decisions because that's just what people do. You seem to have made some that, perhaps, you're not actually willing to accept.
ABrokenMan said:
you cannot just flip a switch and tell yourself to be or feel "happy".
And I never said it was a like flipping a switch.
Learning to be independent and making conscious effort to feel contented and enjoy life when you're alone takes a lot of effort.
You think monks just pop into a temple in the mountains one day and they are all fine and dandy for the rest of their lives? You don't think that initial loneliness and even that choice they make to take that step is a very difficult one for them?
Perhaps maybe you don't really understand monks, but do you really think they don't ever feel any pain? You don't think they sometimes struggle with loneliness?
Do you really think that they aren't really people, that they are some kind of foreign entity that rejects 'purpose', 'evolutionary programming', and living a 'natural life' just because they are somehow born that way?
Come on.... You can't be serious. Your ideology doesn't logically add up, and there's a reason for that.
ABrokenMan said:
We are not all guaranteed to find the special someone - some may try and try with many, and eventually fail. some may never experience a relationship that turns romantic. That's they way life is. Some people win and some people lose. Such is the essence of human life.
That is true. But what point does it have to being happy or content with oneself?
There are two conscious decisions a person like this can make:
1. Allow this rejection to turn them into a negative and miserable person. Allowing the colors to fade and to just see bitterness and remorse in the world and in their life. Not being able to enjoy things anymore, and possibly pushing away potential mates due to all of this negativity.
2. Continue on, contented, realizing that they can keep on trying and that there are plenty of other things to do in the world even if and when they fail. They can continue on being positive and realistic and enjoying all of the other things that life has to offer.
Some might say this isn't a conscious decision, but I would fully disagree with that.
I was once a very bitter and miserable person myself, a long time ago. If you've read any of my posts before you might have seen a few of my stories. In any case, I made a conscious decision to change that.
ABrokenMan said:
I find it quite telling that many on ALL who post they are comfy and fine being alone if they had to be are currently involved in some type of relationship with a partner.
I find it that many of the miserable people often reject good advice by seeking whatever possible reason they can because, in truth, they really don't want to try anymore.
Come on, you don't think I know what you're doing? Been there, done that. I even got the T-shirt.
I find it even more peculiar that the things they sometimes point out as reasons not to take advice are in fact the very reasons why they should.
It's very ironic that you suggest you want a relationship, yet when people IN a relationship who HAVE found someone offer you advice, you then reject it specifically because of that reason.
So who in the world would you ever take advice from? Other people who are just as miserable and just as lonely? And you think THOSE people are the ones with the advice you need?
The irony of this is everywhere. How do you not see it?
ABrokenMan said:
I'll bet not one would sacrifice their relationship with their significant other just to be alone. For if being alone was the premium preference, why would they stay with their partner?
Once again, the straw man goes way out of proportion.
No one here is suggesting that being alone is the "premium preference". If you don't want to be alone there is nothing that is going to change that aspect of your life. You will still prefer to be in a relationship.
What the advice has been, and what it will always be, is that you should accept being alone and stop being so negative about it. Is it hard? Yeah, sure... but as you pointed out earlier, that's part of life.
You don't think someone in a relationship can face hardships? It would be extremely naive and very ignorant to make that sort of assumption. So I would assume you understand that already.
The trick is to stay positive and enjoy the advantages of being alone. Learn to enjoy life. Things like all the free time you have to enjoy hobbies and crafts and fun things that people may not otherwise be able, or have the time, to do.
Make that conscious effort to get to know yourself, learn to love yourself, and to become independent.
You don't think being an independent and spiritually deep person helps you to find someone else?
One last note, this aura of misery you protrude and your obvious disregard for pretty much anything philosophical or spiritual is a massive turn off to most potential partners. Just thought you might like to know that.
It kind of proves my entire point about how people are all making a conscious decision in their lives. All I'm really asking is.... Why are you making this one?