On-line daters watch out for "nice guy syndrome."

[TheSkaFish]

I'm just thinking - I've consistently been NOT good enough for the ones I want. That pattern suggests that I'm doing something wrong, fundamentally. It makes me think of job applications, kind of, since I'm also doing those. I must be "under-qualified". So I've got to change my game some way.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

You're a nice person, probably a cool dude to hang with, but every post I read of yours, it's like you feel entitlement. That just because you like someone, you're entitled to have them, regardless of them not feeling the same. And it's got nothing to do with anything else. You can be physically attracted to someone. Love their personality. Love all they do in life, and still not have any feelings towards them.

It's great you've gained more confidence over the years. But you put yourself down so much. You shouldn't do that. Many people can pick up on that attitude. I just think you'll meet a person that you didn't even know you needed, and you'll look back on all this and wonder what the hell you were thinking.

Like I said, it's that I could connect to this person. We used to talk all the time, for hours at a time. She used to try to qualify herself to me. We had things to talk about, it wasn't just seeing some attractive person at a bar and not knowing anything about them. She commented positively about my looks, she said I was funny and she said it made her happy to talk to me. So I thought, sure. Why couldn't it work, it seems like everything is there. I guess I wasn't confident enough, or accomplished enough. Or "cool" enough, because with a younger person, unfortunately, that is a factor.

I just think there's got to be something a person can do to increase their potential dating pool, potentially even to include people who were previously unattainable. I mean, what if everyone who likes you just sucks, then what? You have to settle for a boring, unfulfilling relationship or just forget about experiencing one at all? I firmly believe there has to be a way to get what one wants. Things happen, or don't happen, for a reason. If that means changing my identity, so be it. All I know is I want what I want, and everything else is just noise to me. There are people in this world who don't have to settle, and that's the kind of person I aim to be.

---

I wonder if there's someone specific that Ska is fixated with, and she hasn't reciprocated. That would explain a lot. Desperately wanting someone you can't have is a big mind-fresia.

^I think so, yeah. Like I've told Ska, he's not moving on if he doesn't let it go. I'm not sure how far along he is in doing that, or if he even wants to (no offense, Ska, I don't mean anything negative by saying this, just an observation of mine).

I spent the better part of last year getting to know this girl. We talked for hours, we laughed at each others' jokes, we made plans, we connected. She said loads of sweet things to me, even some sexual things. And she was supportive of my dreams and desires. I just don't think someone spends hour after hour, day after day, talking to someone who is worthless to them. I think I messed up somewhere. Actually I have several guesses where, exactly. Part of me itches to tell her to go to hell, but I know that will only push her away more. The other part of me is holding out hope that she'll break up with the "bad boy" and someday she'll see me in a new light if I just do the right things.

The thing is, I don't want to let it go. I don't want to have to "move on". I think that's one of the biggest loser phrases there is, and I don't want to learn to accept the role of a loser. Just saying that phrase makes me want to spit. I'm tired of life shitting on me in this arena - I want to end it once and for all. I want to kick this situation's ass. I want to figure this out, beat the bad guy, and get what I want. We get one life to get everything we dream of. Most people learn to accept the idea that they are limited and don't think they can get more than they are allowed by life, I used to think that way. But it leads to a very unrewarding lifestyle. I want to be remarkable, I want to be the kind of guy who can pull off something like this.

No offense taken. But at the same time, I'm out to win and I know that most of the good things in life take work, most of the good things are outside our zones of complacency. I could settle and eventually learn to accept it, I guess - but that would be a choice made based on fear of failure and just laziness, not my true desires. And I'd just go the rest of my life unfulfilled and resentful. That's no solution. I want to beat my circumstances, not accept limitation by them.

---

But why would you be settling just because you can't have her. There is someone else out there for you who you could have this same type of connection with, perhaps more, but there is a difference. She will be available to you, there will be mutual interest. And how would this in any way make you lose? But obsessing over someone who is unavailable to you is not going to lead you on a winning path. If she wanted to be with you she would be. There are 7 billion people on Earth and half of them are women. You haven't even begun to explore even a fraction of the possible outcomes in your life from meeting just a small fraction of them.

And just imagine, what if the situation was reversed? Just imaging a girl who you connected with one a friendship level but you want nothing more, and this girl wants you and only you and she is contemplating what she needs to do to be the type of person you would go for? Analyzing what she said or where she went wrong along the way that would have struck out her chances for success, what changes she needs to make, what she should do because she doesn't want to lose so therefore she continues to pursue you and only you. She ignores any other guy who is interested. In the meantime you are focused on another. And even if you weren't you don't want this girl. Sure, she has a great personality and a lot of awesome qualities and it's not her fault you don't want her as a romantic partner, you just don't and you absolutely have a right not to want her back. Because when someone is interested in another both people have a say in whether or not it's going to become a relationship and if it's not mutual it's a no go. What advice would you give this girl to help her be a winner, not to get you but to win for her own sake in the world of life and love? And be honest, wouldn't you feel just a tad bit uncomfortable that she is so fixated on you?

Also in regards to confidence I think a very important part of it is being kind to yourself, as kind as you would be to anyone so please don't call yourself a loser. I think someone on here should spank you every time you put yourself down so you stop it.

 

[TheSkaFish]

But why would you be settling just because you can't have her. There is someone else out there for you who you could have this same type of connection with, perhaps more, but there is a difference. She will be available to you, there will be mutual interest. And how would this in any way make you lose? But obsessing over someone who is unavailable to you is not going to lead you on a winning path. If she wanted to be with you she would be. There are 7 billion people on Earth and half of them are women. You haven't even begun to explore even a fraction of the possible outcomes in your life from meeting just a small fraction of them.

And just imagine, what if the situation was reversed? Just imaging a girl who you connected with one a friendship level but you want nothing more, and this girl wants you and only you and she is contemplating what she needs to do to be the type of person you would go for? Analyzing what she said or where she went wrong along the way that would have struck out her chances for success, what changes she needs to make, what she should do because she doesn't want to lose so therefore she continues to pursue you and only you. She ignores any other guy who is interested. In the meantime you are focused on another. And even if you weren't you don't want this girl. Sure, she has a great personality and a lot of awesome qualities and it's not her fault you don't want her as a romantic partner, you just don't and you absolutely have a right not to want her back. Because when someone is interested in another both people have a say in whether or not it's going to become a relationship and if it's not mutual it's a no go. What advice would you give this girl to help her be a winner, not to get you but to win for her own sake in the world of life and love? And be honest, wouldn't you feel just a tad bit uncomfortable that she is so fixated on you?

Also in regards to confidence I think a very important part of it is being kind to yourself, as kind as you would be to anyone so please don't call yourself a loser. I think someone on here should spank you every time you put yourself down so you stop it.

If a girl connects with me as just friends, then I would say that we didn't really connect. It means our interests and beliefs don't mesh up and I don't find them good-looking. Hence, I decide to pass. But I don't talk to such a person hour after hour, day after day like I did with this girl who didn't pick me. And I wouldn't talk to them about anything more meaningful than polite small talk. This girl and I had meaningful conversations regularly.

Can't I have her though? Or is it just because I kind of suck right now? I admit I'm still pretty mediocre myself, even though I'm planning on breaking through some day. I just don't believe in this fate stuff, where there is only certain people you can be with and you can't change what you get. I know what kinds of girls are attracted to me, and I'm just not excited about people like that. The people on my level aren't attractive, aren't very bright, aren't very interesting. They're just average people. They don't believe they can do anything with their lives and they're kind of lazy, they're quitters. It would take little to no effort or change in my part to be with someone like that, so it would seem to the world that it was just "meant to be". It would be un-rewarding, but that's who is on my level right now. I'm not that great, but the difference is I think I can create a better life someday.

I just think I'm getting a lot of "move on"/"give up" aka "just quit and accept that you are average and life's going to suck" answers because society is very average and conditions us to believe we can't advance much beyond what we start with - in this case, that we can't have the partners we want. It's the norm to quit instead of trying to get to a higher level, especially when it seems like it won't be easy. All I know is that I want to do better than how I've been doing and there's got to be a way I can get there. I'm sure someone, somewhere, has successfully dated someone that rejected them at first. I don't think anything is "meant to be", but rather, I think attraction is a skill.

I just feel like I'm asking how to sail around the world, but most people are answering with replies like "the world is flat, you'd just fall off". I think we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[Rosewood]

Okay I got a little lost following cut and paste but I love this part "All I know is I want what I want, and everything else is just noise to me. There are people in this world who don't have to settle, and that's the kind of person I aim to be."

I don't know who reads my crap but it seems like this conversation is relevant to me. This nice guy thing. My personal dating pool is small 850 people in town and some of them are my adult kids, grandstands and other family.

My post the other got no reply, So I will fill you in. Posted on 6/28/2014
So I am still looking. I had that thing with the guy "Can you believe this" You can read the post. I ended it after he kept loosing contact then tell me sorry life is so tough now with his Moms' health and work issues. I had help getting over him
I had met someone else online. We were just friends. This guy has sent gifts to my house and been a shoulder to cry on. We talked one night and I got a another call so I took it. It was the guy in the previous paragraph. He knew about the other guy. I talked to long. I called the other guy back to late.

He was mad. I realized I was going to loose my friend and he was more honest than the one promising me romance and all that. I am so stupid I told him, He accepted my apology.

The next day sent a text and told the first guy forget it. He didn't call or email. Apparently he was not sincere or knew he was wrong.

He also knew that I had another guy in NY who had invited me to see him in August. He said that guy is probably full of it. That called. He had a few minutes at work August is just to soon. Can we push back to labor day? Yes sure I said. I'l call. He hasn't and I get a feeling that my friend who has been honest with lets be friends is right.

Why all the games??

I call my friend and I know he is at buddy's house, but I called before there and it was cool. This time I get a recording like my number is blocked. I try again and his buddy pretends to be him. A joke I think. I call again and recording comes on.

Okay I blew it. He has had enough. He wanted to be just friends, but I have done something to upset him. I am broken

Even worse I realize I am crazy about him. We spent more time talking, exchanging pics, stories, and the little gifts were great.

I email declaring feelings. I text telling him goodbye sorry and please read email. I get text in pre-dawn hours. Calm down they say. He can't quite get what is going on , but he will call me as he can't signal at his location.

We talk and listen and figure out things. He didn't know his friend had answered and before he got the phone again his signal was gone.

I am embarrassed by my tears and he stunned that i have declared deep feelings for him. He thinks I am great too. The problem. Money. He didn't want a girl he can't support and all.

Don't worry I tell him we can figure it out over time. I can't imagine not having him around. I also don't want to pressure him.

He also say he's not cute enough and all. I have pics and I no objections.

So now a simple let's be friends is complicated. Or we just get together and work it out.

So to that Nice guys finish last thing I would add that last guy there stays. I hope. He is in Ohio I am in CA


Today I am still unsure how to proceed. The guy in NY I was going to let down easy. I got called less and less so I didn't have a chance. He let me know yesterday in a voice mail that he is having a needle biopsy of lobe in his lung this week. I had commented on what I thought was allergies as he doesn't smoke and natural remedies I use. I had already made up my mind the guy in Ohio was for me.

The problem is this nice guy syndrome. He is telling me yes I want to be your shoulder to cry on, yes everyone runs to me for a problem. He is used to girls dumping him because he's nice. I almost did the same. I moaned a groaned about the guy in KY and how he wanted a serious relationship. I told him how I talked to his sister and the whole family was excited because they wanted him to meet someone after four years had gone by since the death of a girlfriend. When I was over the back and forth games of calling me and then not calling me I had an offer from guy in NY just to visit him for his annual party. There was no expectations. I got calls and emails from guy in KY saying he was sorry. I had a back up plan. Guys do this to right? It's not like I am sleeping with them or made any promises. Ohio is listening as a friend and sending gifts. Like I said when I thought I had pissed him off I knew I couldn't loose him. KY is blocked from my phone and all emails go to spam. NY is most likely facing cancer.

So now it's me and Ohio. He has no reason to trust me.I clearly have given him no reason to.If anything it seems like I have handed him ammo not to. He calls and I enjoy our time. He still sends me stuff. I have asked how do we commit. He keeps saying he doesn't know me. I am far away and all. I can move eventually I have planned to leave here anyway. I just need to put a few dollars away to relocate and I am gone.

How do you show the nice guy he is just as good or better than anything out there? He keeps saying I'll meet someone . I told him I am done. He says yeah go get all dolled up and go to karaoke ( I sing and he does dj and kj) and you'll meet someone. Yet we talk all the time. I spent most of yesterday on phone with him. He grilled his stuff and ate with family. I did the same later. He sent me pics of Ohio fireworks and called me after the show. I called him late to tell him how cool it was watching about 6 different shows on the valley floor from our mountain. How can I think about someone when I want to be with him? He says he wants my happiness so I should find a great guy. You are one I tell him. He says yeah he's a shoulder to cry on and a comfort when i need one. He is committed. He spent a lot of time and money to be there in some ways. He's not dating anyone. He couldn't have time. I can call anytime and he doesn't need to hide from me or put me off. He might be editing a video, music or working on graphics and be distracted, but he says wait a minute or call back soon. He tells me I am the woman he dreams of and he calls me too. He just thinks someone better ill come for me. The guy who spends that much time to make sure i am smiling today is for me. He lives in Ohio.

Do nice guys set them selves up to finish last? How do I convince him he is right? Am I making a mistake in changing a friend in to more? I just want to proceed with caution. It would kill me to cause him pain. Any advice?? I don't want this nice guy to finish I want him to finish and be the last.

That's why I love the quote I started with "All I know is I want what I want, and everything else is just noise to me. There are people in this world who don't have to settle, and that's the kind of person I aim to be."

 

[jjessea]

Holy text walls Batman...

I worked way too hard and slept way too little to absorb all of that, I'll try again tomorrow.

I know this is coming form the wrong guy here, but Ska, in all those hours you spent went that girl did you ever just make a move? It doesn't sound like it. She may have just given up waiting for you to do it.

 

[Batman55]

Confidence isn't justification it is something you develop within ones self, there is no justification for it. If that's how you think of confidence then you are thinking and going about it the wrong way.

I would say that validating yourself based on your skills and accomplishments is a pretty common perception among men, even if it is flawed thinking (as I now believe it is.) I definitely, definitely can't be the only one to fall victim to this belief. Men are taught to compete and the importance of winning is pounded into our psyches from a very young age. It's easy to see how self-confidence becomes married to the ability to compete and win: the two concepts are sometimes (and wrongfully) confused with one another.

---

Yea unearned confidence is just hubris, its obnoxious and gross.

If reasonably conveyed, unearned confidence is also a necessary survival skill for the average man, IMO.

---

For SkaFish, I'm curious if this girl you're fixated on is one you knew and spent time with in real life, or an online friend you never met? It's likely the answer is easily attainable in a thread somewhere in these parts, but I can't be bothered to look, right now.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I know this is coming form the wrong guy here, but Ska, in all those hours you spent went that girl did you ever just make a move? It doesn't sound like it. She may have just given up waiting for you to do it.

It was a long-distance thing, so making moves wasn't really feasible though we did sometimes talk about seeing each other. However, she'd always talk about wanting to hug or cuddle me, and she did ask what I'd do if she tried to get me to sleep with her. I don't know why she would ask such a question if she had no desire to be with me.

I know at some point I went wrong because I slipped into the "nice guy" thing without realizing it. I listened to her problems, I made myself too available to her, I was just too nice. And I also probably complained at some point. I made her my main interest, and wasn't doing a whole lot with my life. I was kind of a wreck back then. I'm not doing much better now, but those are some of the blunders I made.

---

For SkaFish, I'm curious if this girl you're fixated on is one you knew and spent time with in real life, or an online friend you never met? It's likely the answer is easily attainable in a thread somewhere in these parts, but I can't be bothered to look, right now.

Online friend I never met. Though we spent a significant amount of time talking to each other. And we did start talking about meeting. I know that online and long-distance is kind of hard to pull off, but when I met her I was blown away. She seemed so sweet and sincere, and we seemed to connect. She was actually the first to say it. Not to mention I found her lovely. And I haven't met anyone like her around here before or since.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I'm just thinking - I've consistently been NOT good enough for the ones I want. That pattern suggests that I'm doing something wrong, fundamentally. It makes me think of job applications, kind of, since I'm also doing those. I must be "under-qualified". So I've got to change my game some way.

We're not jobs though. The fact that you're comparing women to a job... Makes me titter inside. But it's not you. I know there's nothing I can say that could ever convince you otherwise. That's something you have to realize yourself. And the fact that you believe you have to or need to change yourself makes me believe that you may not truly like yourself. It's really a horrendous problem of today's society... Everyone feels like they have to change to be liked. Just like yourself. Seven billion people on this planet. Someone's bound to like you just as you are.

 

[kamya]

It's really creepy reading about your desperation to be with this girl. The movie "Misery" comes to mind. I guarantee if this girl read any of the things you post here, she would be terrified for her safety.

You can't have her because she doesn't want you. It doesn't have anything to do with society. Even if you tried to change everything about yourself for her, you honestly have no idea what she wants. I guarantee what she wants, and what you think is an ideal guy are not even close. She probably doesn't even know what she wants. And even if you do change into the exact kind of person she would go for, people change. Especially young people.

Others tell you to move on because that's what a normal sane person would do. Not because you suck. Sometimes you can't have what you want. It has nothing to do with being average, or not trying hard enough. It's part of life.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I know this is coming form the wrong guy here, but Ska, in all those hours you spent went that girl did you ever just make a move? It doesn't sound like it. She may have just given up waiting for you to do it.

It was a long-distance thing, so making moves wasn't really feasible though we did sometimes talk about seeing each other. However, she'd always talk about wanting to hug or cuddle me, and she did ask what I'd do if she tried to get me to sleep with her. I don't know why she would ask such a question if she had no desire to be with me.

I know at some point I went wrong because I slipped into the "nice guy" thing without realizing it. I listened to her problems, I made myself too available to her, I was just too nice. And I also probably complained at some point. I made her my main interest, and wasn't doing a whole lot with my life. I was kind of a wreck back then. I'm not doing much better now, but those are some of the blunders I made.

---

---

Well that's different. I didn't know she was heavily flirting with you. You said it was a long distance thing. Is she still too far away from you for you to make a move? Does she have a boyfriend? I don't think you have to change so much. Just communicate your interest, ask her out. And if it's still long distance, what are you going to do about it?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Well that's different. I didn't know she was heavily flirting with you. You said it was a long distance thing. Is she still too far away from you for you to make a move? Does she have a boyfriend? I don't think you have to change so much. Just communicate your interest, ask her out. And if it's still long distance, what are you going to do about it?

I mean....yea. I thought that she was flirting heavily with me too. Always talking about hugging and cuddling sending little hearts and "missing" me all the time. And that sex question she asked me. Idk about everyone else but I don't go out of my way to ask people questions about me and them, if I have zero intentions of going there. There's no point of asking a question for which I don't care about the answer.

She did also say a lot of weird crap about how me and her wouldn't work together, because she was "like a weed and needed to be balanced out" and that "I would let her push me off the ledge" and stuff like that which made no sense to me. But at the same time, she also kept up all that other seemingly flirtatious stuff, saying she wished I live there, how happy I made her, and commenting positively on my looks and traits. She also seemed to care a lot about my personal success, always sending me tips and stuff.

Unfortunately, she is still far away, and does have a boyfriend that I mentioned in other threads....typical "bad boy" POS. She is highly intellectual, and this guy is a loser, all image. This is why I get so mad. She used to go out of her way for me, all the time. And I thought we connected. But I guess to get anyone these days you have to be "gangster" or some nonsense. I hope this is just her being immature and something that will end soon. I really cared about her, and she claimed to really care about me. A lot of that has turned to anger right now though because of this stupid bf, but I hope that will end. So i guess all i can do is wait.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Sometimes you can't have what you want. It has nothing to do with being average, or not trying hard enough. It's part of life.

Exactly. That entitlement mentality... It's a really shitty attitude to have.

 

[Solivagant]

I just think I'm getting a lot of "move on"/"give up" aka "just quit and accept that you are average and life's going to suck" answers

I just feel like I'm asking how to sail around the world, but most people are answering with replies like "the world is flat, you'd just fall off".

I admit I hate the oft-repeated "move on", but suggesting that someone lets go or moves on is not "also known as" telling them to just quit and accept they are average and that life's going to suck. The fact that you are equating the two baffles me. No one is telling you to accept that you suck and life sucks, they're telling you that there is someone else out there for you, someone who will want you as much as you want them. You're not ready to accept that idea right now, which is fine, and it's understandable that you're feeling frustrated. But you're also kind of disregarding everyone here who is actually trying to help you by suggesting that they're just parroting responses they've been conditioned to believe rather than actually putting thought into them. The fact that you're getting a lot of the same answer is more likely because the people outside the situation (based on the information you have provided) can see what needs to happen better than you can right now.

No one is telling you to give up, in fact pretty much everyone is telling you to keep trying. They're just saying to try to find someone else. No one wants to see you wasting time on someone who's not going to give you the time of day in the end. Granted I don't read every thread, but from what I have seen so far, the only person who's suggested you'll have to settle for less than you're happy with is you.

I just don't believe in this fate stuff, where there is only certain people you can be with and you can't change what you get.

In my opinion you're thinking too much in extremes. There is something in between "fate" and "I can control how other people feel about me and every outcome I desire if I just do the 'right' things!" Accepting that you can't control everything doesn't mean believing that you have no choice in anything.

I don't see anyone telling you that there are only certain people you can be with either; I see them saying that someone who is right for you will not walk off with some other dude.

You may have believed this girl was a perfect match for you and maybe she was on paper, but obviously the relationship was not. She made that decision and you need to respect that. It doesn't mean your life is over now.

Sometimes you can't have what you want. It has nothing to do with being average, or not trying hard enough. It's part of life.

I know there's nothing I can say that could ever convince you otherwise. That's something you have to realize yourself.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Ymir]

Yeeeeah, man, seriously. You can't have her because she doesn't want you. No means no. No doesn't mean try again or keep trying or "make me want you". If you really like her that much, you should respect her wishes.

Boom.

Edit: I know some relationships don't work at first, but I'm pretty sure the rejected-at-first person should at least try and give the other person space. She or he might be interested in you later, but anything besides just letting them know your feelings are still there is kinda creepy.

 

[Limlim]

It might just be my ego talking, but if someone weren't interested in me, that would immediately be a huge "turn off" in terms of how attractive I found them. I wouldn't even want to try and earn it, as much as people seem to love when people do that like in the notebook.

 

[jjessea]

I kinda like this forum, the people here are just as nuts as I am.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Exactly. That entitlement mentality... It's a really shitty attitude to have.

??? Is everyone who wants more than the honeysuckle they are given and told to accept take it or leave it, acting entitled? I don't think so. I don't care for the girls that are on my level. I want more out of life than that. I am willing to do the work.

---

I admit I hate the oft-repeated "move on", but suggesting that someone lets go or moves on is not "also known as" telling them to just quit and accept they are average and that life's going to suck. The fact that you are equating the two baffles me. No one is telling you to accept that you suck and life sucks, they're telling you that there is someone else out there for you, someone who will want you as much as you want them. You're not ready to accept that idea right now, which is fine, and it's understandable that you're feeling frustrated. But you're also kind of disregarding everyone here who is actually trying to help you by suggesting that they're just parroting responses they've been conditioned to believe rather than actually putting thought into them. The fact that you're getting a lot of the same answer is more likely because the people outside the situation (based on the information you have provided) can see what needs to happen better than you can right now.

No one is telling you to give up, in fact pretty much everyone is telling you to keep trying. They're just saying to try to find someone else. No one wants to see you wasting time on someone who's not going to give you the time of day in the end. Granted I don't read every thread, but from what I have seen so far, the only person who's suggested you'll have to settle for less than you're happy with is you.

In my opinion you're thinking too much in extremes. There is something in between "fate" and "I can control how other people feel about me and every outcome I desire if I just do the 'right' things!" Accepting that you can't control everything doesn't mean believing that you have no choice in anything.

I don't see anyone telling you that there are only certain people you can be with either; I see them saying that someone who is right for you will not walk off with some other dude.

You may have believed this girl was a perfect match for you and maybe she was on paper, but obviously the relationship was not. She made that decision and you need to respect that. It doesn't mean your life is over now.

Yea but they are telling me to give up because I don't want someone else. I really hate it when people suggest I find someone who is "right for me" because I know what kind of girls are "right for me" and I don't want them at all. They're ugly, dull, lazy, awkward and just very mediocre people that don't do anything with their lives. They are losers. These are the girls I wouldn't have to change for, therefore it would seem "natural". There sure is someone out there for me all right, someone who sucks. How am I supposed to be content, let alone fulfilled, by someone like that? The only way I can see that is if I quit trying, myself. Just quit trying to be more than this even though I hate it. Quit trying to align myself with the awesome girls and the awesome things in life. Just lay down and quit, in this one life.

I don't want the girls on my level and I don't want to spend my life settling for less watching helplessly as the "bad boys" get everything that is good in the world. I want to compete. And I think I'm getting a lot of the same answers because people are quitters. I've been a quitter too, for almost all my life and I was unhappy with what I got, but figured there was nothing I could do. I was miserable. I always dreamed of the day when I'd have more than what I was given. You all can do this your way, I'll do it mine. People have done this before. Looks like I'm on my own.

 

[Ymir]

Yea but they are telling me to give up because I don't want someone else. I really hate it when people suggest I find someone who is "right for me" because I know what kind of girls are "right for me" and I don't want them at all. They're ugly, dull, lazy, awkward and just very mediocre people that don't do anything with their lives. They are losers. These are the girls I wouldn't have to change for, therefore it would seem "natural". There sure is someone out there for me all right, someone who sucks. How am I supposed to be content, let alone fulfilled, by someone like that? The only way I can see that is if I quit trying, myself. Just quit trying to be more than this even though I hate it. Quit trying to align myself with the awesome girls and the awesome things in life. Just lay down and quit, in this one life.

I don't want the girls on my level and I don't want to spend my life settling for less watching helplessly as the "bad boys" get everything that is good in the world. I want to compete. And I think I'm getting a lot of the same answers because people are quitters. I've been a quitter too, for almost all my life and I was unhappy with what I got, but figured there was nothing I could do. I was miserable. I always dreamed of the day when I'd have more than what I was given. You all can do this your way, I'll do it mine. People have done this before. Looks like I'm on my own.

Is your way working?

 

[TheSkaFish]

Is your way working?

Not yet. But then again I haven't really changed yet. I'm aligned with such unattractive people because I'm still unattractive myself. I suppose this thread has been a prime example of that - I've been raging against being a "nice guy", "bad boys" and the stupid "Friend zone" when instead I should be pouring my energy into doing something about it. That is a fault I admit to having. I rage and I rage against something, and tire myself out instead of actually looking at the problem and saying, what action can I take to solve it.

I figure I can be an attractive guy, and anyone can, if only I stop doing unattractive things and start doing attractive things. I need to make "attractive" my lifestyle, which has been tough because I grew up thinking I was unattractive and that was just the hand I was dealt and that there was nothing I could do about it.

That's why I think I have a chance. Because even as an unattractive person, I could still carry decent conversations with this girl and she still said nice things about me and acted like she wanted me around. So if I were actually on her level, who knows what could happen. I'm still not being my best self yet. Right now I have more faults than pluses, or the faults I have are just that much stronger than any good traits I have. Just being real. It's going to take time to get there.

 

[Ymir]

Not yet. But then again I haven't really changed yet. I'm aligned with such unattractive people because I'm still unattractive myself. I suppose this thread has been a prime example of that - I've been raging against being a "nice guy", "bad boys" and the stupid "Friend zone" when instead I should be pouring my energy into doing something about it. That is a fault I admit to having. I rage and I rage against something, and tire myself out instead of actually looking at the problem and saying, what action can I take to solve it.

I figure I can be an attractive guy, and anyone can, if only I stop doing unattractive things and start doing attractive things. I need to make "attractive" my lifestyle, which has been tough because I grew up thinking I was unattractive and that was just the hand I was dealt and that there was nothing I could do about it.

That's why I think I have a chance. Because even as an unattractive person, I could still carry decent conversations with this girl and she still said nice things about me and acted like she wanted me around. So if I were actually on her level, who knows what could happen. I'm still not being my best self yet. Right now I have more faults than pluses, or the faults I have are just that much stronger than any good traits I have. Just being real. It's going to take time to get there.

That sounds much better than what you've been saying but keep in mind that even after all that, she can still reject you and is within her right to do so. She's not a job, or a car, or something you can have.

All you can do is do your best and hope it attracts her. If it doesn't, it will be a shame, of course, but I expect that you won't come back here writing paragraphs and paragraphs of women being crazy and only being attracted to guys you consider to be bad (this attitude is unattractive as honeysuckle, I must say), while comparing women to objects.