something about love...

[mariomaniac]

why do you even try. if you love then the person you love never cares about you. its not even worth trying...

 

[Flash]

I know how you feel its like you try and try to make it work but instead you get stomped in the face and get thrown aside

 

[Arianna]

I think it goes something along the lines of a moth to a flame..

There's an inner light in someone's eyes...and you're drawn to them.

But that light..that warmth.. that's no gaurentee that you won't get burned..

So little moth..take your time.. and be careful.. when playing with fire.

 

[IgnoredOne]

Rationally, because if you do not try, then there is no possible way to succeed. By not trying, you are choosing to be alone, whereas by trying, you have the slim chance of success.

Can't say that I practice what I'm saying here, though. After being burned ten times in a row over six years, its very hard for me to try again. Its almost counterintuitive to think so - to go ahead and let yourself get burned again? Ouch.

So right now I'm working with the idea that I neither can expect nor deserve love; the certainty(though negative) its actually much more calming than the rollercoaster sense of uncertainty before. I can't say that it isn't disappointing or painful in its own way, though.

But, well, such is life.

Regards,
IO

 

[Arianna]

Rationally, because if you do not try, then there is no possible way to succeed. By not trying, you are choosing to be alone, whereas by trying, you have the slim chance of success.

Can't say that I practice what I'm saying here, though. After being burned ten times in a row, its very hard for me to try again. Its almost counterintuitive to think so - to go ahead and let yourself get burned again? Ouch.

So right now I'm working with the idea that I neither can expect nor deserve love; the certainty(though negative) its actually much more calming than the rollercoaster sense of uncertainty before. I can't say that it isn't disappointing or painful in its own way, though.

But, well, such is life.

Regards,
IO

I.O. I didn't mean to imply that you (or anyone else) should stop trying..only to be careful..

I have always found it very strange how quickly people jump into a relationship without really knowing one another at all..

And while in this euphoric stage they're convinced that it must be true love. By rushing things.. all they're doing is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Love?

It's a multitude of colors. And truthfully..some of those colors aren't very pretty at all. In fact..they're downright ugly. But people keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

They tend to jump at the very first shade of 'rose'. When in fact - 'rose' - is only just the beginning..

 

[Cosmic Kid]

why do you even try. if you love then the person you love never cares about you. its not even worth trying...

I don't know if this is germane...

but, here's my experience/take on "Love"...

For the most part, women have always kind of, it seems anyway, kind of "chosen me", and, if I "liked" them, I'd "choose them back" LOL, sort-a-speak. But, embarrassingly enough, I don't know that I've ever really have ever taken the time(?), or, "cared enough"(?), if you will, to take the time, to really know what it is/was that I wanted, or didn't want, in a mate..

My longest relationship...(LOL a couple of decades almost)..she was a "flight attendant". She was extemely charming, attractive, charismatic, feminine, elegant, entrancingly graceful, very outgoing and somewhat disarming. But, she was also very seductive, tempting, and very, very delicate, it seemed to me, even if she "seemed" tough on the outside.. Hugging her was almost, I felt like I was hugging a porcelin doll, that could be easily broken. These are characteristics, I believe, that looking back, I are some of the reasons I never was able to feel as though there was enough trust maybe. There wasn't so much honesty, only, convience, "feelin' good", and looks. Anyway...that's along way of saying....

Now, that that part of my life is over LOL..., I'm just, I think, for the first time, that's not what I want any longer. Now...I'm just , at the risk of sounding cliche', looking at people more as an adventure(?) of who they are, and not so much as what they are. I don't know if that makes sense, it does to me anyway. Anyway, now? I'm taking the time, I think, (well, I don't "think", I "know") to look at who they are. But, what's changing is that, for the first time, I think, since, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, for the first time, to understand, what it is that I like or don't like. What it is that I want in a woman, and don't want. I'm trying to figure out, and I have, to a large/some degree, what traits and values that are important to me, and not what looks good, or is available(?).

What I'm tryin' to say is...my wants and needs are/seem to be changing. It's like buyin' a house. It takes along time of living in one to know what it is that you want/like, or don't want in your next one. When you first look at a house that you like, well, you want it. But, after living in that house over the years, you realize there's things that you could never have known about what you don't like about it, untill, and unless, you live in it for a period of time.

Arianna's already said it in another thread, you have to be able to know what it is that's important to you.

As for the "warmth in the eyes", well, that's just the beginning..LOL

I love it. Hell, I love it all. Sorry for the long post. I don't know how to say stuff too good sometimes, and it takes along time for me to figure LOL that..LOL out too..lol.. what it is I'm tryin' to say, that is... learnin' as we go. That's the whole deal. That's what we're all doing, I think, anyway. fwiw

(and, LOL, some obviously learn a little LOL faster than others)(I'm talkin' about me, and me only)

Sorry for the long post. I need to talk LOL Hell, I've gotta get out more. LOL

 

[Cosmic Kid]

OK HERE'S WHAT I MEAN...

ALL that matters is..DO I LIKE YOU? It's what "I" like that matters. Even if you don't like me, screw ya, I know both your strengths and weaknesses enough to be able to make my own mind up about my feelin's towards you. And, that's beginning to matter to me. (Used to all that mattered..."Does she like me? And, btw, fwiw...they all had to like me LOL or I felt rejected. (I LOl , I felt rejected alot LOL) lol



So what if you don't like me? I don't give a crap. Hell, I'm liken you, you're makin' me feel good., that's my goal. There's a certain amount of (well alot of) power in that. The real kind, not the kind that's bartered.

(I know I'm lol soundin' drunk, and that's ok too, I'm not drinking alcohol, but, hell, maybe I should...no just kiddin', I couldn't feel this way that way. anyway..

 

[IgnoredOne]

I.O. I didn't mean to imply that you (or anyone else) should stop trying..only to be careful..

Your words are well taken, but I don't believe that my exact situation has much to do with that. Namely, I've always been rejected in my life; its very hard not to take it personally. For anything that could be said about that, and trust me, I've said many of them to myself, the ultimate facts remain: we are literally programmed to feel physical pain at the sense of rejection, most of us do define at least some part of our self-concept through validation from others, and as a male, I am instinctually compelled to try to "get girls." These things "feel right", and every failure adds the experiences of emotional(and some physical) pain, sensations of powerlessness, and the associated triggers to beliefs in worthlessness.

These are not rational; these are emotional responses. But they wear their toll nonetheless on the psyche and their whispers do come to define our characters significantly. I dealing with it in as mature, and as healthy as a way I can. But don't think that there aren't often moments that all that screams inside of me is some combination of, "Why won't anyone want me?", "I'm a total failure at life", "The world is unfair", and "I hate girls - why can't they give me a chance?"

Such is the nature of emotional scars for me.

 

[Arianna]

OK HERE'S WHAT I MEAN...

ALL that matters is..DO I LIKE YOU? It's what "I" like that matters. Even if you don't like me, screw ya, I know both your strengths and weaknesses enough to be able to make my own mind up about my feelin's towards you. And, that's beginning to matter to me. (Used to all that mattered..."Does she like me? And, btw, fwiw...they all had to like me LOL or I felt rejected. (I LOl , I felt rejected alot LOL) lol



So what if you don't like me? I don't give a crap. Hell, I'm liken you, you're makin' me feel good., that's my goal. There's a certain amount of (well alot of) power in that. The real kind, not the kind that's bartered.

(I know I'm lol soundin' drunk, and that's ok too, I'm not drinking alcohol, but, hell, maybe I should...no just kiddin', I couldn't feel this way that way. anyway..

You're a very brave person..
but I don't have any weaknesses..

 

[Arianna]

I.O. I didn't mean to imply that you (or anyone else) should stop trying..only to be careful..

Your words are well taken, but I don't believe that my exact situation has much to do with that. Namely, I've always been rejected in my life; its very hard not to take it personally. For anything that could be said about that, and trust me, I've said many of them to myself, the ultimate facts remain: we are literally programmed to feel physical pain at the sense of rejection, most of us do define at least some part of our self-concept through validation from others, and as a male, I am instinctually compelled to try to "get girls." These things "feel right", and every failure adds the experiences of emotional(and some physical) pain, sensations of powerlessness, and the associated triggers to beliefs in worthlessness.

These are not rational; these are emotional responses. But they wear their toll nonetheless on the psyche and their whispers do come to define our characters significantly. I dealing with it in as mature, and as healthy as a way I can. But don't think that there aren't often moments that all that screams inside of me is some combination of, "Why won't anyone want me?", "I'm a total failure at life", "The world is unfair", and "I hate girls - why can't they give me a chance?"

Such is the nature of emotional scars for me.

I am really trying to understand the male mindset...why do you all equate your success or worthlessness with the ability to "get girls?"
Shouldn't those feelings be based on something greater then that?
And as far as someone 'not wanting you'..what makes you think they're worth having?

 

[frey12]

I am really trying to understand the male mindset...why do you all equate your success or worthlessness with the ability to "get girls?"
Shouldn't those feelings be based on something greater then that?
And as far as someone 'wanting you'..what makes you think they're worth having?
[/quote]

Arianna I don't know about the other males here. Hell I would even be reading this right now if someone hadn't made me feel sad today.
However this is not a male only thing. However I have heard an aunt of mine say something as "I don't get hit on every time I go out on the street and I am okay with that". Which to me shows that woman judge themselves on how much they get hit on/harassed to their worth in some way. Not to mention why woman wear scantly clothing showing lots to get extra attention. I think this is the same thing that this thread is about. Same behaviour but different ways of expressing it.
Aside from the obvious being a shut in that some of us are. Then the repeated failures of having anyone myself included. Granted I don't feel the same hate of woman however what always bothers me is i see people much worse then me getting great woman. And it fills me with resentment, and hatred. And by bad men getting woman i mean, guys who beat woman and their girlfriends, a pedophile least I think he was it was kind of grey lawfully couldn't report because wouldn't of counted. Mean while I recognize my social skills aren't great but I wouldn't ever hit a woman or do anything along those lines. However those guys get the ladies, and I end up with nothing. So when you see scum getting others to love them and you get yourself you really start to lower your self worth as you must be worse then scum to get no one.

I hope I shed some light on this method of thought.

 

[lonewolf]

I am really trying to understand the male mindset...why do you all equate your success or worthlessness with the ability to "get girls?"
Shouldn't those feelings be based on something greater then that?
And as far as someone 'not wanting you'..what makes you think they're worth having?

Hi Arianna, in my opinion the answer to the question could relate to basic instincts, as primitive beings and in animal culture a male without a mate is a dead mate, primarliy leading to the alpha males getting the females and their bloodline succeeding those who are unable to mate.

But times change and so do some people, I for one do not rate my success / worthlessness on the ability to 'get girls'. I rate it more on my ability to properly understand just who it is i am, and my own level of self-appreciation - Important both for career and relationship / friendship aspects.

 

[IgnoredOne]

I am really trying to understand the male mindset...why do you all equate your success or worthlessness with the ability to "get girls?"
Shouldn't those feelings be based on something greater then that?
And as far as someone 'not wanting you'..what makes you think they're worth having?

Genetics. I believe that the instincts might fade with age, but being very young, they're still very strong(or it might be personal). I've thought that since I am a writer, I often engage parts of me which are very emotional(and thus instinctual) and am well aware of my inflated sense of passion. Although I do my part in curbing them socially, I'm deal with the physical consequences of suppressing part of myself: high stress levels, resulting most immediately in constant headaches, nausea, and bleeding.

I have to force myself to be polite, to be sympathetic and to be friendly on daily basis with girls who've rejected me. The certainty that not only am I unwanted while, but also that nobody will ever want me is unpleasant.

Past, present and future emotional isolation is icky

Or perhaps more eloquently: my brain tells me that I'm okay, my heart tells me that I'm not. Its difficult to shut out the heart, though I'm getting better.

Regards,
IO

 

[Arianna]

I am really trying to understand the male mindset...why do you all equate your success or worthlessness with the ability to "get girls?"
Shouldn't those feelings be based on something greater then that?
And as far as someone 'wanting you'..what makes you think they're worth having?

Arianna I don't know about the other males here. Hell I would even be reading this right now if someone hadn't made me feel sad today.
However this is not a male only thing. However I have heard an aunt of mine say something as "I don't get hit on every time I go out on the street and I am okay with that". Which to me shows that woman judge themselves on how much they get hit on/harassed to their worth in some way. Not to mention why woman wear scantly clothing showing lots to get extra attention. I think this is the same thing that this thread is about. Same behaviour but different ways of expressing it.
Aside from the obvious being a shut in that some of us are. Then the repeated failures of having anyone myself included. Granted I don't feel the same hate of woman however what always bothers me is i see people much worse then me getting great woman. And it fills me with resentment, and hatred. And by bad men getting woman i mean, guys who beat woman and their girlfriends, a pedophile least I think he was it was kind of grey lawfully couldn't report because wouldn't of counted. Mean while I recognize my social skills aren't great but I wouldn't ever hit a woman or do anything along those lines. However those guys get the ladies, and I end up with nothing. So when you see scum getting others to love them and you get yourself you really start to lower your self worth as you must be worse then scum to get no one.

I hope I shed some light on this method of thought.
[/quote]


frey..any woman that wants to be with a man that is abusive to her.. based simply on his good looks..or his money..etc. - has mental problems. Now..I didn't mean that to sound derogatory.. it's just an observation.
Those types of women feel unworthy..and usually seek out men that reinforce those worthless feelings about themselves. Why? My guess is..they're either punishing themselves for whatever unknown reason. Or they feel.. if they can 'get' this bad guy to love them..then they've validated themselves in some strange way. It's really sad..because it's just a vicious cycle going nowhere..
As far as 'how women dress'..you can blame a lot of that on the media.
Somehow women have come to believe that if they don't look 'a certain way' - that men won't pay them any attention. Which I believe is a false assumption.
Ah well..sounds like I've got the answers to the world's problems..but I don't. I am just a very balanced person..but that doesn't mean I can help anybody else.

 

[Dulcinea]

It is a mystery for me why love goes exactly to the people who don't value it too much, whereas those - both men and women - who would give their life for it receive so little or nothing at all. I look around and I see exactly the most cynical, dishonest and selfish people being repaid with the greatest amount of love. The man who cheats on his wife is loved by both his wife and mistress; the one who is faithful is losing finally the only woman whom he loves. The same about women. I wouldn't say 100% true, but from the situations I know, it is more than 90%, really. What kind of cruel game is this?

 

[IgnoredOne]

It is a mystery for me why love goes exactly to the people who don't value it too much, whereas those - both men and women - who would give their life for it receive so little or nothing at all. I look around and I see exactly the most cynical, dishonest and selfish people being repaid with the greatest amount of love. The man who cheats on his wife is loved by both his wife and mistress; the one who is faithful is losing finally the only woman whom he loves. The same about women. I wouldn't say 100% true, but from the situations I know, it is more than 90%, really. What kind of cruel game is this?

Well, initially, looks play a more significant part that most people admit. The next thing, though, is confidence as we are generaly credulous and take our cues on the worthiness of an individual by his own assessment of himself. Actual, true confidence is very attractive.

So confidence brings success. Ironically, confidence comes from success. Therefore, having been initially successful for whatever reason, these guys become more confident, bringing them more success, bringing them more confidence, etc.

Its funny, isn't it? Life is a comedy, its just the living that's a tragedy.

 

[Arianna]

It is a mystery for me why love goes exactly to the people who don't value it too much, whereas those - both men and women - who would give their life for it receive so little or nothing at all. I look around and I see exactly the most cynical, dishonest and selfish people being repaid with the greatest amount of love. The man who cheats on his wife is loved by both his wife and mistress; the one who is faithful is losing finally the only woman whom he loves. The same about women. I wouldn't say 100% true, but from the situations I know, it is more than 90%, really. What kind of cruel game is this?

Well, initially, looks play a more significant part that most people admit. The next thing, though, is confidence as we are generaly credulous and take our cues on the worthiness of an individual by his own assessment of himself. Actual, true confidence is very attractive.

So confidence brings success. Ironically, confidence comes from success. Therefore, having been initially successful for whatever reason, these guys become more confident, bringing them more success, bringing them more confidence, etc.

Its funny, isn't it? Life is a comedy, its just the living that's a tragedy.

Regards,
IO

Yes..you're right. We're visual creatures..looks count..but just so far. Unless of course you're still in High School..where looks count for everything.

 

[Dulcinea]

Actually looks count very much especially regarding women. The younger and the more attractive, the more chances to find partners.
Regarding men, what counts mostly in the eyes of many women is wealth, success, the social status.

 

[Arianna]

Actually looks count very much especially regarding women. The younger and the more attractive, the more chances to find partners.
Regarding men, what counts mostly in the eyes of many women is wealth, success, the social status.

Perhaps..but then when a relationship is based on just 'looks'..it generally fizzles out real quick. Sort of 'sown my oats' type of thing..
There's always going to be someone out there younger and more attractive. We get a new crop of those everyday..
So if a man is interested in a women based solely on looks..he had better keep his bags packed. Because I am certain.. she's thinking the same thing..

P.S. I am signing off for awhile now..going to have a cup of tea..I have a heck of a cold. See ya' later gators!

 

[IgnoredOne]

At this moment, I have to admit that I would gladly be in an abusive relationship rather than none at all. The former indicates that I'm valued enough to be allowed physical contact for at least some reason, the latter testifies to the opposite.

I also think that the single most promiscuous girl that I've ever known(who was, indeed, often in bad relationships) share a thought pattern similar to this. She would often sleep with men out of a perception that she was somehow a "piece of honeysuckle" and therefore the physical was the only thing that she could offer to "be liked."

What was startling to me was that she actually ended up being used/sleeping with more men than even another, actual nymphomaniac girl that I knew(and was the friend of the previously mentioned girl). The nympho would and did have sex daily when possible, but only in the framework of a relationship; the self-esteem lacking girl was far more likely to have one-night stands, engage in drunken antics, etc.

Naturally, I ended up in a relationship with neither of them. For whatever reason, possibly pity, the nympho liked me, but I rejected her* in favor of her friend. I pursued the self-esteem lacking girl since she was closer to my age, my education and because I wanted to protect her; I became slotted into the "best friend" category. Eventually, I lost my contact with both of them. The nympho ended up with a older, but very considerate man who seemed to have balanced her in as close as an approximation of domestic happiness as I've ever seen(apparently this involves many broken beds). Sometimes the low self-esteem girl still comes to complain to me on 1)how miserable her current relationship is, 2)how ugly** she thinks she is, 3)how her girl friends treat her badly and 4)heap scorn on other women.

Actually looks count very much especially regarding women. The younger and the more attractive, the more chances to find partners.
Regarding men, what counts mostly in the eyes of many women is wealth, success, the social status.

There was a study done on this which I found quite interesting. The researchers amassed a pool of models, both male and female, as well as ordinary individuals. They gave some of them clothes representative of "business executive" while others were given McDonald uniforms, then exposed them to a selected public.

Women showed a preference for ordinary men in executive suits over male models in McDonald uniforms, although it wasn't an overwhelming preference. A significant minority of women chose for models, regardless of their attire.

Men displayed an overwhelming(around 95%) preference for models. Attire and perceived prosperty played almost no role in their preference on initial apperance.

That said, though I neither deny nor make any excuses for being shallow at times, I've found that personally, physical attractiveness appears to vary based on my knowledge of the girl. Low self-esteem girl above, for example, has the sharp noblewomen features of her heritage oddly paired with short height - striking but not stereotypically fetching. However, as I began to know her for her emotional fragility, I began to see her as dainty, with her fragile bones and delicate grace becoming incredibly seductive. My instinct to protect her caused me to see beauty where I had missed it before.

More crassly, I remember talking to an only slightly above-average redhead once. Upon realizing that she was heiress of a wealthy family fortune, had come here on a private jet, and who casually talked about the massive ranch she lived in, I realized that I had mentally and suddenly come to see her as very attractive.

Regards,
IO

* I'm aware of the irony of my choices.

** She's a professional stage ballerina and has performed for the Sydney Opera House. That this might, by fiat, indicate that she is both attractive and talented seems to escape her.