The devaluation of sex.

[ClosetGeek]

Oh God, what whole load of bollocks.
Women DO WANT a commitment minded man.
I think the only thing that drives women away from you is your attitude........not your wealth..........not your looks.
Stop spending time with PUAs.
The word Alpha should only be used in finance and not with men.

I'm sorry, but it does devalue me. I know that wasn't your intention, but thats how the argument goes. Come to think of it the only time women ever found me attractive when was I dating this fat girl. I thought maybe they just wanted to tempt me, but now I understand.

Women don't want a commitment minded man whose been saving himself for something real. They want the guy whose been with all the ladies because all the ladies like him. They don't want the nice guy, they want the bad boy. They want someone desirable like them who believes in changing it up, thats what they themselves do.

So this is how it is. Alpha males get all the babes and nice guys get nada. Rich handsome millionaire or bust. No amount of willingness, devotion, or creativity will change that. So where do I go from here? I'm sad now and I feel like crawling into a corner to die.

You want the perfect guy, but he can't be perfect if hasn't committed adultery. You want it to be easy, and for him to have been easy. Easy is easy, and hard is hard. Take a guess at which falls apart easily. Oh wait thats something we consider to be a good thing.

(also had another reply on the last page and notice how I changed your quote slightly.)

 

[Phaedron]

Women DO WANT a commitment minded man.
I think the only thing that drives women away from you is your attitude

I'm sorry. That was a bit harsh and stereotypical of me. I know what I said doesn't apply to everyone.

So what is wrong with my attitude in approaching love? I'm willing to be extremely devoted, I'm creative, I can even be funny sometimes. Is it so terribly important that I sleep around first? This is apart from what I said above which has no bearing to how I approach someone.

 

[Steel]

Every past relationship remains special to you in the present which is in itself a betrayal to the idea of monogamy. If you've shared love with many why not just keep doing so? What is the purpose of wanting to keep it exclusive when it has already become a delusion?

Not at all. Past relationships exist in the past - and they no doubt ended for a reason. This doesn't mean we should purge them from our thoughts (even if such were possible), it just means we recognise that such relationships once existed, and now do not. Learning from this experience is not something we should be ashamed of, nor is the fact that we once had feelings for the other person.

Someone who doesn't think of their past relationships as a mistake is likely to leave you eventually. This kind of person hasn't learned that the grass is always greener. Also women are willing to upgrade and men are willing to downgrade, thus comes the kind of woman who stays in a relationship until she finds someone better. Take a look around. Lonely men are at something like a 10 to 1 ratio to lonely women.

Is it a mistake to have been in love? As I've already stated, despite the best of intentions, relationships sometimes change. No one should then view the time spent with that person as wasted, as indeed they would be if they labelled the relationship a mistake. Thats unfair.

Seriously though.. in a world where women outnumber men (however slightly) how can there be ten times as many lonely men as women?

 

[ClosetGeek]

The way you picture women is a group of money grabbing bitches who are only after money.....And that they love bad boys and they deserve to be treated badly by these bad boys.......wtf? for real!
No problem with you sleeping around........just don't generalize women!
We are not all the same!

Women DO WANT a commitment minded man.
I think the only thing that drives women away from you is your attitude

I'm sorry. That was a bit harsh and stereotypical of me. I know what I said doesn't apply to everyone.

So what is wrong with my attitude in approaching love? I'm willing to be extremely devoted, I'm creative, I can even be funny sometimes. Is it so terribly important that I sleep around first? This is apart from what I said above which has no bearing to how I approach someone.

 

[Phaedron]

Seriously though.. in a world where women outnumber men (however slightly) how can there be ten times as many lonely men as women?

Do they out number men?

It's basically our fault. See I've often seen a relatively fat and unattractive woman with a handsome executive. Women can upgrade because most men are willing to downgrade. I'm not desperate, but I'm also not seeking someone whose out of my league.

I'll agree there are lessons and fond memories of past relationships, but the fact of the matter is they didn't work out or had to end for some reason. To say there were not mistakes is to say you intentionaly had a bad relationship, which to me says you will intentionally have another one.

 

[jales]

hey Catharsis...you seem nice..

it does hurt to be lonely but there are lonely women who also have it hard finding love. the ratio is not 10 to 1

and smart women to want good guys. I love my bf very much and I consider him a good guy. He was not with anyone else when we met. He is not a millionaire. But he does treat me well, and listen to me and he always has time for me, and he's just a good person (not just to me).

Also a person does not have to regret their past to stay in a relationship. And not all women with past have left their men... Or have thought the grass was greener anywhere. Some of us get cheated on. Some of us get left.

 

[Steel]

The number of sexual partners someone, of either sex, has had is just a number. You can't judge anything about them from it. Without having lived their life in their shoes, you will have no idea what life experiences they may have had.

Someone who has slept with 50 people may show absolute commitment in relationships, someone whom you met as a virgin may cheat at the first opportunity.

 

[Phaedron]

The way you picture women is a group of money grabbing bitches who are only after money.....And that they love bad boys and they deserve to be treated badly by these bad boys.......wtf? for real!
No problem with you sleeping around........just don't generalize women!
We are not all the same!

Your mistake is to think I call this a bad thing. Personally yes, but objectively no. In fact I respect the viewpoint of sharing passion and love with many. I know money isn't the primary attraction. Of course not. Its temptation, there will always be someone better. There are those who follow the temptation and those who don't.

What I don't understand is why such a light hearted attitude about relationships leads to even bothering to want them to be exclusive? It seems like a delusion to me.

 

[Phaedron]

Someone who has slept with 50 people may show absolute commitment in relationships, someone whom you met as a virgin may cheat at the first opportunity.

This is true, but it only tells you about their current set of values. Back when they had the 50 relationships they obviously didn't care about commitment. The virgin who cheats is just a desperate fool wanting to get laid.

My point is if you can't call a failed relationship a mistake, then you're saying you're glad it happened. Glad to have fallen in love with the wrong person. This tells me you would rather be with them then me and it makes the prospect of failing in your current relationship okay.

Why lie to ourselves. If we are glad to have had multiple loves in our life then why not have more? Is it something about only seeing people one at a time? Is seeing more then one person at a time merely an inconvenience? Why bother to remain commited? We might just as well keep the fond memories of this relationship and move on to another. Temptation: there is always someone better.

 

[jales]

lets say I fail all my exams one year and have to stay an extra year in school.

then in my final year I meet the man of my dreams because he moves to the country I study in during this year then guess what?

failling is NOT what i intended to do but I don't regret it ..it is just a part of my life that made me who I am.
It made me stronger, it made me me and it lead me to meet the most wonderful guy in the world.

Same with relationships
If I did not have past relationships I would have never met the guy who I'm with now. If I didn't do a whole heap of stuff which I didn't intend to do I may not even be posting to you now.

But once you love who you are there is no need to regret your past..
get it?

Seriously though.. in a world where women outnumber men (however slightly) how can there be ten times as many lonely men as women?

Do they out number men?

It's basically our fault. See I've often seen a relatively fat and unattractive woman with a handsome executive. Women can upgrade because most men are willing to downgrade. I'm not desperate, but I'm also not seeking someone whose out of my league.

I'll agree there are lessons and fond memories of past relationships, but the fact of the matter is they didn't work out or had to end for some reason. To say there were not mistakes is to say you intentionaly had a bad relationship, which to me says you will intentionally have another one.

 

[Steel]

Seriously though.. in a world where women outnumber men (however slightly) how can there be ten times as many lonely men as women?

Do they out number men?

It's basically our fault. See I've often seen a relatively fat and unattractive woman with a handsome executive. Women can upgrade because most men are willing to downgrade. I'm not desperate, but I'm also not seeking someone whose out of my league.

I'll agree there are lessons and fond memories of past relationships, but the fact of the matter is they didn't work out or had to end for some reason. To say there were not mistakes is to say you intentionaly had a bad relationship, which to me says you will intentionally have another one.

Yes, there are more women. Simple maths should tell you that there are going to be roughly the same amount of single women as there are men.

You are missing the point about saying they were not mistakes. If someone were to have their partner's life tragically end, would that make the relationship a mistake? Even when this doesn't happen.. there was a time in the relationship when you were both happy together. Labelling the relationship a mistake is denying that it ever happened.

 

[jales]

OR it could mean they are sooooo happy to be with you that they are happy that everything in their life happened as it happened. Including past relationships.

Because it all led them to the greatest guy in the world.

My point is if you can't call a failed relationship a mistake, then you're saying you're glad it happened. Glad to have fallen in love with the wrong person. This tells me you would rather be with them then me and it makes the prospect of failing in your current relationship okay.

 

[Phaedron]

If someone were to have their partner's life tragically end, would that make the relationship a mistake?

No it would not. For those of us who believe in some kind of afterlife should not move on in that case.

So do you place much value on them? Do you give it your best? Or do you just think meh, its cool if its fails.

If my wife cheated on me with a guy who paid her $1,000,000 for a one night stand and she said she did it for us should I be happy?

I think you guys are confusing the silver lining of a cloud with sunshine.

I don't know anymore.... but I don't care. I look for someone I like and I will stay with them, and I can only hope they want it to work.

In a way the same is true for Christianity. We can be forgiven for anything we've done, but it becomes so easy to take advantage of that. In heaven you might meet a serial killer rapist but he got in cause he was sorry at the last minute. He got to do all those fun things yet shares the same reward as I do.

Fate more so benefits evil then good. At least historically.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

**** it....you mean my ex-wife could had gotten a million dallor when she cheated on me ?
Now,...I'm really t-off at her.

 

[jales]

wow
That is a lot of money. I sooo sorry that happened to you. cheating is wrong. even for a million dollars. There are few cases when cheating is okay.. and that is like... to save the life of your daughter or something like this. Money is not one of them. Believe me when I say this

NOT all women would cheat on a man for 1,000,000.

I live many, many, many miles away from my bf and they could offer me an entire island of land and I would never put myself with another man like that. If I was staving and realllly needed the money. Then well.. I dont know but in my current state of mind.. helll no. What happened there was just humans being human. She screwed up. Maybe she will never do it again because she has learnt.

I have screwed up when it comes to sex. Sometime we do this. Hurting someone is never good. But you have to see it as an experience ..a part of your life, and just look towards healing from it. And hopefully finding someone who wont do this.

I swear on my life as a women I would never do that and I know for a fact many other women wont as well.
Don't justify it and lower your standards..in fact upper your standards. Look for a girl you believe wont do this. They exist.

also
of course I place value on relationships and give them my all.

 

[Phaedron]

Because it all led them to the greatest guy in the world.

Isn't that exactly what I said. That people who do multi relationships are upgrading till they find the greatest guy in the world?

No one cares to answer the question of what they will do if someone who seems to be better comes along. I've mentioned temptation a number of times now. They don't answer because they can't honestly say they won't jump at the opportunity.

I'm going to hold to my arguments because the more you embrace multiple relationships and failed relationships the more it becomes okay. I guess you can't be an adult without a little adultery. heh.

I'm not the greatest guy in the world. No one is. Even the rich guy has some character flaws.

Think about it. This is the fundamental problem with relationships. We enter them with no real desire to see them work out, because its okay for them to end. This perspective cheapens love to the point to where its little more then monkey politics.

 

[Phaedron]

wow
That is a lot of money. I sooo sorry that happened to you.

I'm sorry, but are you people daft? I WAS NEVER MARRIED. How could I sit here arguing about staying together with one person if I did that. It was an example of something good coming out of something bad. I never went all the way with anyone. lol forgive the tone, it was kind of funny though to word it like that.

Also I'm very impressed with your resolve against temptation. Of course you could do a lot of good with that much money. I wouldn't be terribly angry if that were to happen, but I'd even be happier if she said no.

That was the premise for the movie indecent proposal.

 

[Steel]

Because it all led them to the greatest guy in the world.

Isn't that exactly what I said. That people who do multi relationships are upgrading till they find the greatest guy in the world?

No one cares to answer the question of what they will do if someone who seems to be better comes along. I've mentioned temptation a number of times now. They don't answer because they can't honestly say they won't jump at the opportunity.

I'm going to hold to my arguments because the more you embrace multiple relationships and failed relationships the more it becomes okay. I guess you can't be an adult without a little adultery. heh.

I'm not the greatest guy in the world. No one is. Even the rich guy has some character flaws.

Think about it. This is the fundamental problem with relationships. We enter them with no real desire to see them work out, because its okay for them to end. This perspective cheapens love to the point to where its little more then monkey politics.

Ok, you continually state that women upgrade... but isn't this something more regularly associated with men? Who hasn't heard of the man who "trades his wife in for a younger model" ?

Either way, yes, it does happen, but its not a female thing. It's something associated with particularly shallow individuals.

 

[jales]

lets say i am with a guy and he is the greatest guy in the world then ..the realtionship progresses and it doesnt work out


For me he was not best. But at the time he was the greatest and by ending the relationship it may not have been my intent to upgrade

are you saying that men never end relationships??
They do. trust me they do.


Then i meet someone new...now I see that the older guy was not best for me ..this new guy is.

I doesnt mean the relationship before was meaningless. it just means this one suits me better

Because it all led them to the greatest guy in the world.

Isn't that exactly what I said. That people who do multi relationships are upgrading till they find the greatest guy in the world?

No one cares to answer the question of what they will do if someone who seems to be better comes along. I've mentioned temptation a number of times now. They don't answer because they can't honestly say they won't jump at the opportunity.

I'm going to hold to my arguments because the more you embrace multiple relationships and failed relationships the more it becomes okay. I guess you can't be an adult without a little adultery. heh.

I'm not the greatest guy in the world. No one is. Even the rich guy has some character flaws.

Think about it. This is the fundamental problem with relationships. We enter them with no real desire to see them work out, because its okay for them to end. This perspective cheapens love to the point to where its little more then monkey politics.

 

[Phaedron]

Ok, you continually state that women upgrade... but isn't this something more regularly associated with men? Who hasn't heard of the man who "trades his wife in for a younger model" ?

Either way, yes, it does happen, but its not a female thing. It's something associated with particularly shallow individuals.

You are absolutely correct. Do not interpret me as coming here specifically to pick on women. Men are much more evil then women and have dominated them throughout all of history. A philosophy I don't agree with.

This is all the more reason why I think a woman should look for a guy whose different from the pack.

when man rules, he needs to dominate the world with his religions and his wars, when woman rule, man has surrendered to the world with humility as his faith and science as his doctrine.

Trying to remember this quote, its not verbatim.

Anyway I don't have a problem with women being the dominant gender. In fact I kind of like it, I just wish they would value devotion. See equality is kind of jaded. You see a girl crying in public both men and women comfort her. You see a guy crying in public and whoa thats creepy. In fact I have an article about a woman who recently auctioned off her virginity and made over $250,000 in Nevada. WoW. My only point here being they are the more desirable gender and as such get away with more. Men typically have the dangerous jobs, like going to war and such. For a woman being the traditional homemaker is a respectable choice and there are many of men who want it that way. So equality does not completely accomodate for all inherent differences, at least not at this point in time.