Unhappy Britain
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Village_Idiot
Member
I'm 48 and I feel Britain has become a disgusting place in the last 25 years in particular, the wealth gap has widened and social mobility seems limited. It is everyone for themselves and people are not ashamed of it. The press is a daily barrage of hate for society's unfortunates who apparently are to blame for every last social ill including their own poverty. As society's unfortunates are generally less well connected less quick witted ruthless and less attractive it seems rather churlish to blame them for faults that give the more fortunate an advantage.
I know other countries have their problems but I think Britain is a particularly cruel society nowadays. I'm not blaming anyone or offering explanations just giving my view.
I know other countries have their problems but I think Britain is a particularly cruel society nowadays. I'm not blaming anyone or offering explanations just giving my view.
Village_Idiot
Member
The human mind doesn't work like that though, does it?
People aren't gonna lie down and accept their 'misery' because billions of others have it worse, particularly when it is suspected that the creation of an underclass is deliberate and could have been avoided.
People compare themselves with their immediate fellow beings, that is why even high achievers kill themselves. Good luck with changing that mindset.
But yes a lot of our woes are due to having the luxury of free time to think about them.
People aren't gonna lie down and accept their 'misery' because billions of others have it worse, particularly when it is suspected that the creation of an underclass is deliberate and could have been avoided.
People compare themselves with their immediate fellow beings, that is why even high achievers kill themselves. Good luck with changing that mindset.
But yes a lot of our woes are due to having the luxury of free time to think about them.
Village_Idiot said:
The brain (human or not) works for the sole purpose of survival and continuity. It will not keep wondering that other have it worse when it is busy keeping you afloat or trying to create opportunities.
The "underclass" is a natural order. You cannot have a society (again not necessarily human) without a hierarchy. You would have only generals with no army. There are plenty of people who are happy to just have what they need and live and there are those who need more. Nothing wrong with either. The latter abuse it but that is also natural because pushing boundaries is what we do since we are kids.
And it is not a luxury to think. A lot suffer thinking even if they are slaves to the others
Triple Bogey
Well-known member
Britain is okay at the moment. Plenty of people in work. We have a minimum wage in place.
I don't know why people moan.
I don't know why people moan.
Case
Well-known member
I'm American, but I've traveled to England several times in the last ten years because it fascinates me. I love the British Isles, and so I am frequently drawn to discussions about British culture, norms, and societal behaviors.
I have a question that is based on something I learned from some English friends, and wonder if this resonates with anyone in the UK.
The question is, does the following ring true to anyone here who hails from Britain?:
It's my understanding that there is a cultural see-saw that occurs in your culture, where everyone loves seeing the underdog make good, but as soon as they make good, everyone wants to knock them right back down again, so it creates a prevailing mood of cynicism and pessimism regarding success in your country. (Maybe it's what I perceive from your tabloids, but it's also been suggested by several of my UK friends.)
I remember hearing Hugh Laurie in an interview mention that, when he was doing "House," he always expected it to end immediately, even years after the show became a phenomenal success. It was like his default setting was to not get comfortable or even to shy away from embracing his success at all. As an American, since we glorify success like we invented it or something, I always found that hesitant behavior to be a bit odd. Is this an accurate generalization about the British mindset?
Another experience I've had is that the English (maybe even the Scottish and Welsh, as well,) are so pessimistic at times that whenever someone has good fortune, say a raise, a promotion, a financial windfall, etc, that the general reaction is to downplay the success with friends and family to the point were no one truly enjoys the successes they achieve there. Because friends are always taking the piss out of someone for acting "above it all," which seems to be a social faux-pas. Success, as I see it, is discouraged to a certain degree when it tempts ridicule from others, and so instead, it's channeled through your interests in watching others succeed at football, rugby, darts, or TV talent shows.
It contrasts with the sometimes annoying tendency for us Americans to act like we're all going to be rock stars, astronauts, the President, ridiculously wealthy and famous, and nobody is going to tell us different. If Brits are excessively pessimistic (which might be wrong, hence my question,) to where they don't seem to act like they enjoy life, Americans act like life is made to be enjoyed, and that the world is theirs for the taking.
Does any of this make sense? I wouldn't be asking if I did not have British friends who tell me about the typically cynical, grumbling Brit, and that it's not very far off from the truth.
I have a question that is based on something I learned from some English friends, and wonder if this resonates with anyone in the UK.
The question is, does the following ring true to anyone here who hails from Britain?:
It's my understanding that there is a cultural see-saw that occurs in your culture, where everyone loves seeing the underdog make good, but as soon as they make good, everyone wants to knock them right back down again, so it creates a prevailing mood of cynicism and pessimism regarding success in your country. (Maybe it's what I perceive from your tabloids, but it's also been suggested by several of my UK friends.)
I remember hearing Hugh Laurie in an interview mention that, when he was doing "House," he always expected it to end immediately, even years after the show became a phenomenal success. It was like his default setting was to not get comfortable or even to shy away from embracing his success at all. As an American, since we glorify success like we invented it or something, I always found that hesitant behavior to be a bit odd. Is this an accurate generalization about the British mindset?
Another experience I've had is that the English (maybe even the Scottish and Welsh, as well,) are so pessimistic at times that whenever someone has good fortune, say a raise, a promotion, a financial windfall, etc, that the general reaction is to downplay the success with friends and family to the point were no one truly enjoys the successes they achieve there. Because friends are always taking the piss out of someone for acting "above it all," which seems to be a social faux-pas. Success, as I see it, is discouraged to a certain degree when it tempts ridicule from others, and so instead, it's channeled through your interests in watching others succeed at football, rugby, darts, or TV talent shows.
It contrasts with the sometimes annoying tendency for us Americans to act like we're all going to be rock stars, astronauts, the President, ridiculously wealthy and famous, and nobody is going to tell us different. If Brits are excessively pessimistic (which might be wrong, hence my question,) to where they don't seem to act like they enjoy life, Americans act like life is made to be enjoyed, and that the world is theirs for the taking.
Does any of this make sense? I wouldn't be asking if I did not have British friends who tell me about the typically cynical, grumbling Brit, and that it's not very far off from the truth.
dd11
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I think we have lost the concept that there is something larger than ourselves and our own desires. That we don't feel connected to God, humanity, the world, our communities in neighborhoods in the way of times past and shared purposes. We seem to have all just gone solo and now are all entertaining ourselves with our mindless devices. And, those who long for that human connection or shared purpose can no longer find it, which i think is often why some of us are here.
And, the odd thing is that work and work for the material goods of life, but in the end those things don't bring peace and happiness.
And, the odd thing is that work and work for the material goods of life, but in the end those things don't bring peace and happiness.
L
LonesomeDay
Guest
delledonne11 said:
Yes, and that's why I feel more 'connected' to the world by myself surrounded by peace and quiet, then when trying to connect with others who seem to be endlessly pursuing material things.
I was at my happiest when I had far less than I do now, and the quality of life was better because people were happier with less generally. No-one had a car or telephone in my neighbourhood when I was a child but we knew our neighbours and we talked to them.
There was even a connection to nature as the wildlife was more diverse and abundant. I rarely see a butterfly now - the past few years noticeably so - and they used to be abundant.
ThatZealousOne
Well-known member
Case said:
Yes, this makes sense. You're taking it the wrong way though. In america, they shout about success. It's the biggest thing there is for america, it's all about competition and winning, and if you can't compete you're worthless. Didn't Patton say, "Americans always play to win and americans will never tolerate a loser."
In the UK, we're not like that. We want people to succeed, to support each other and see everyone succeed, not just the individual. Sure, it's great if an individual succeeds, and her should be celebrated. There's a point though where you need to be quiet about it and stop putting oneself on a pedestal. Humility is a trait we hold quite highly, so while it's good to celebrate success, you need to know when to stop. Something not many americans know how to do (at least, I have found that) and it gets on our nerves. We are cynical, yes, but politeness is also something we hold quite highly. Getting all high and mighty because you won something is kind of rude, to laud it over people, so us brits go to some effort to not do that. We enjoy it just as much as others do though. Heh. Just we don't show it.
Also, can we please set up another thread about this. This has been severely necroed, someone should probably close it. Heh.
