When will such guys be accepted?( a serious question)

[shells]

I think they say those things because that's the kind of guy that society expects them to like. But they can't really change what they do like.

My point of view may not be very female-centered, but it's important for guys to know the truth, especially guys who are having issues with women. I don't think it's sexist either, as there are plenty of girls in real life who have honestly expressed some of the things I've said.

That picture is funny and all, but I guess that's the kind of reply I get for telling it like it is, at least with some individuals anyway. But what can I say, I remember you getting offended by me stating these kinds of things before

So tell me shells, do you think that what I'm saying is not true, or does it just offend you? There's a difference you know

Both - it offends me and it's misleading.

"99%" is just a statistic you pulled out from your butt, why on earth should I think it's remotely true? Furthermore, just because you heard a few females' opinions on the matter, doesn't make it true nor does it represent the majority. It's totally plausible you heard a few girls say this and that. But does that mean that they can speak for everybody?

Well, let's say this. I hear from a group of guys that all you men like to do is fresia a girl and leave; they don't want relationships. Then I go on to say that 99% of men treat women like honeysuckle and are cheating bastards. Does that seem fair if I allow a group of boys speak for the rest of the male gender?

No.

It may not be sexist, but it sounds like prejudice to me. Or, who knows, it maybe both.

A prejudice is a prejudgement: i.e. a preconceived belief, opinion, or judgment made without ascertaining the facts of a case. The word prejudice is most commonly used to refer to a preconceived judgment toward a group of people or a single person because of race, social class, gender, ethnicity, age, disability, political beliefs , religion, line of work or other personal characteristics

Hasty generalization is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population.

---

I've noticed a huge difference in the kinds of guys that women say they like, and the ones that they actually do like. When they say that they want a sweet, caring guy...... well, 99% of the time, it isn't true.

Like I said, you are indirectly calling 99% of women all liars. Where'd ya get that statistic from? The 10 females, maybe give or take a few, that you've heard from? Interesting that gets to represent what the entire female population wants.

PS - Based on the definitions above, I'm just "telling it like it is".

 

[Wyrm]

I might be reading it wrong but were you saying that guys go for looks as strongly as women go for confident assertive guys? I mean basically did you mean that we(guys) see looks as the most important?To me I see beauty in most the girls I see and I would definitely love strong traits of an awesome personality in them more at least I would hope. Just saying if that is what you meant than no, I don't think all guys are that shallow stuck on looks. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you said in advance.

I'm not saying that looks don't make a difference for women, but I honestly think that men have a lot of leeway as far as making up for looks. Go out and many times you'll see women with men who aren't nearly as attractive as they are. It could be their money. But confidence, along with a certain attitude, seem to spark something in women.

I don't think that most guys are truly stuck on looks either, but I think that we naturally have a stronger tendency to go by looks. It may sound shallow, but in the end, I think that women benefit from the fact that an average-looking, or even somewhat below-average looking girl can provide the same things as a supermodel type: companionship, intimacy, affection etc. So what I'm saying may sound shallow, in the end it really isn't all that unfair.

It really is all complex in nature, and I understand that what I have to say can easily be misinterpreted or sound offensive. So, you're more than welcome to ask me anything about my comments.

---

......

PS - Based on the definitions above, I'm just "telling it like it is".

I already explained it to you shells. If you weren't so butthurt about this, you would have understood:

I think they say those things because that's the kind of guy that society expects them to like. But they can't really change what they do like.

It's not that they're lying, at least I hope not. It's just part of cultural conditioning. Women are probably taught to go for nice guys, but since they go by their emotions, they end up going anyway for what they naturally like. If you haven't noticed that women seem to go for the guys with a certain attitude way more, (including those women who say they want a nice guy), then you have to get out more and observe people.

I forget exactly how old you are, but grow up and chill out. I'm all up for debate and having people flat-out disagreeing with me, but you seem to be getting your panties in a wad about this.

That "statistic" is obviously based on what I've noticed........ Sorry that I'm not carrying out an official survey on it............. It's based on what I've seen throughout the years, not just the opinion of "a few females." I can say that I've seen enough to start drawing some conclusions here.

If a woman were to tell another, as you say, that most younger men want mainly sex and expect to get in her pants, then I wouldn't be offended. From what I see, it's probably true. It's better for the woman to do her best to understand men and look after herself. And lets be real here, most of the younger men who do well with girls do have that type of mentality which you described.

I care little for political correctness and cultural niceties. I believe that the truth is the best thing to know. Women help each other out by teaching each other about how men usually are, so why not let other men know how women tend to be?

You have to see life for what it is. As far as courtship goes, men have certain tendencies, as do women. To claim otherwise would be to lie and sugarcoat it. It's better to be aware of it and use that knowledge, rather than lie to ourselves in order to keep a politically correct attitude.

 

[The-One]

I just think that the lonliness is a result of these guys who are most likely ugly but maybe they are just socially awkward. I am one of these guys(no duh) but to me I truly think its caused by ugliness because no girl has ever been interested in me and girls and I've never gotten the same treatment such as my friends have gotten from girls. Such as girls flirting with them, laughing, or making eye contact and smiling. Sorry, just giving some examples. So will guys who have never been in a relationship that claim to be considerate of women, really are, but are also most likely ugly or socially awkward ever be accepted more than they have been over the years?

You seem to have identified your problem, so why don't you do something about it?

Make yourself beautiful at any cost, do whatever you have to do, then go out and practise until you are less socially awkward. I myself am currently involved in a project with something like that.

Again, moaning you're ugly isn't going to help. DO something.

 

[Remedy]

You seem to have identified your problem, so why don't you do something about it?

Make yourself beautiful at any cost, do whatever you have to do, then go out and practise until you are less socially awkward. I myself am currently involved in a project with something like that.

Again, moaning you're ugly isn't going to help. DO something.

I'm sorry but that just isn't for me, so I think I'll take the "being positive" approach to things. The only part of my body I'll end up fixing is my teeth because fixing your whole body just doesn't seem right at all such as your face. It just seems like you would be changing the way you were intended to be and you would end up being a fake "you". So I'm just going to try and stop complaining about my looks, because who knows it might not be the major problem that is causing such difficulties. I'm just going to think that I'm probably somewhat attractive to at least some people out there and see where it gets me. If you really do end up going through with it, I really do hope you find happiness.

 

[The-One]

You seem to have identified your problem, so why don't you do something about it?

Make yourself beautiful at any cost, do whatever you have to do, then go out and practise until you are less socially awkward. I myself am currently involved in a project with something like that.

Again, moaning you're ugly isn't going to help. DO something.

I'm sorry but that just isn't for me, so I think I'll take the "being positive" approach to things. The only part of my body I'll end up fixing is my teeth because fixing your whole body just doesn't seem right at all such as your face. It just seems like you would be changing the way you were intended to be and you would end up being a fake "you". So I'm just going to try and stop complaining about my looks, because who knows it might not be the major problem that is causing such difficulties. I'm just going to think that I'm probably somewhat attractive to at least some people out there and see where it gets me. If you really do end up going through with it, I really do hope you find happiness.

I'm glad it took only a single post from me for you to think clearly and make up your mind.

Best Wishes

 

[Wyrm]

The only part of my body I'll end up fixing is my teeth because fixing your whole body just doesn't seem right at all such as your face.

You can make some big changes with your whole body with a good workout routine, plus it has significant health benefits.

Getting braces will help too. If it's not too severe, then don't worry about it until then. I know a few guys who don't have perfect teeth, they have a couple of twisted ones in the front etc, and it hasn't stopped them from having a girlfriend.

 

[Danielle]

Remedy..you have to stop applogizing...this is a conversation, you didn't kill anyones cat! So save the appologies for a time like that.
I can relate to you, where as I do not find myself attractive at all. However, I have learned to love myself just the way I am...and if others...(men)..in particular don't "like" me becuase I am not super pretty or thin...then I don't need them anyway.
You need to find your inner beauty. Women prefer a guy that is confident, personable and someone that is nice to be around. If you are always worrying about your looks, women will sense that. I think the "staying Postive" route is a great idea.... dig inside and find what it is that you really like about yourself...and that will go a looooong way with women..I promise.
If you choose to change your outter appearnce, do it only for *YOU*...and not for anyone else. The truth is..noone else really cares what you "look" like... Only the type of person you are on the inside.
Hang in there.... I know its not easy...we all have moments where we feel this way.... belive me, I do all the time. It won't be overnight, but try to think postive thoughts about yourself...and you will feel your confidence boost.

 

[Badjedidude]

I'm glad it took only a single post from me for you to think clearly and make up your mind.

Best Wishes

Are you sure it was your post, The-One? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you really believe that one magical post from you magically solved Remedy's life problems.

----Steve

 

[EveWasFramed]

ROFLMAO!!!!

 

[VanillaCreme]

I most certainly agree with Jales. My ex is not the most attractive dude on Earth in a lot of people's standards, however in mine, he was the cutest dude out there. And I fell for him for how well we clicked. I honestly don't care about looks, and there are many other females who don't either. If someone shows the slightest hint of being shallow, step away. It shouldn't be looks that matter, it's personality and character that do. Which is why my ex is my ex. He's a butthole, despite what he looks like.

 

[oarivan]

I'm glad it took only a single post from me for you to think clearly and make up your mind.

Best Wishes

Are you sure it was your post, The-One? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you really believe that one magical post from you magically solved Remedy's life problems.

----Steve

He's called The-One for a reason you know.

 

[Maverick1989]

To answer your post,

Those guys will be accepted when women get older and had countless jerks as boyfriends and then they move on and mary with the nice guys.

I hope that's true though.
But meh, I don't know honeysuckle about women so... dunno

 

[shells]

It's not that they're lying, at least I hope not. It's just part of cultural conditioning. Women are probably taught to go for nice guys, but since they go by their emotions, they end up going anyway for what they naturally like. If you haven't noticed that women seem to go for the guys with a certain attitude way more, (including those women who say they want a nice guy), then you have to get out more and observe people.

Uh, I'm already in a relationship. I'm pretty sure I know what I want after two years of being in one.

I forget exactly how old you are, but grow up and chill out. I'm all up for debate and having people flat-out disagreeing with me, but you seem to be getting your panties in a wad about this.

You can stop referring to my panties now. Thanks.

That "statistic" is obviously based on what I've noticed........ Sorry that I'm not carrying out an official survey on it............. It's based on what I've seen throughout the years, not just the opinion of "a few females." I can say that I've seen enough to start drawing some conclusions here.

Exactly. So why use it?

I care little for political correctness and cultural niceties. I believe that the truth is the best thing to know.

For the sake of debate then, keep the false statistics out of it. It's just stupid to slip them in your argument if all you have to go by is your "experience" and don't have any concrete data to support it.

Don't care for being politically correct? Fine. But don't throw around ridiculous statistics that you magically came up with from your "years of experience".

That is all. I'm not going to keep thread-jacking this thread and I apologize to the OP for doing so. Want to reply? Anyone is more than welcome to PM me. Thank you.

 

[EveWasFramed]

*sigh*

OK, let's all please agree to disagree for the moment, shall we?

 

[Remedy]

Remedy..you have to stop applogizing...this is a conversation, you didn't kill anyones cat! So save the appologies for a time like that.
I can relate to you, where as I do not find myself attractive at all. However, I have learned to love myself just the way I am...and if others...(men)..in particular don't "like" me becuase I am not super pretty or thin...then I don't need them anyway.
You need to find your inner beauty. Women prefer a guy that is confident, personable and someone that is nice to be around. If you are always worrying about your looks, women will sense that. I think the "staying Postive" route is a great idea.... dig inside and find what it is that you really like about yourself...and that will go a looooong way with women..I promise.
If you choose to change your outter appearnce, do it only for *YOU*...and not for anyone else. The truth is..noone else really cares what you "look" like... Only the type of person you are on the inside.
Hang in there.... I know its not easy...we all have moments where we feel this way.... belive me, I do all the time. It won't be overnight, but try to think postive thoughts about yourself...and you will feel your confidence boost.

The only thing I'll end up changing like I said is straightening my teeth because it is a very normal thing people do that is very good for your teeth. Enhancing your body by means of changing the whole way you look just doesn't seem right. It really seems like an easy (besides all that money) and rather fake way to try and fix your self-esteem. I think I would probably still feel bad after and besides I'm starting to feel better about my own appearance.

I'm going to try and make myself more presentable by getting some better clothes. Along with trying to do some other things to make my appearance better.Just trying to make myself look the best I can along with feeling better about myself. I might not be as bad looking as I think I am at least to some people because I have shown my picture to others and they said I don't look to bad.

I guess it's just a matter of believing the people who are telling me I look ok or the ones who told me I was bad looking. I think I'll try to believe the people who said positive things about my appearance and go from there. Like an awesome friend I talk to on msn went into detail what she thought she liked about how I look so that means something.I just need to start believing what they say.

_____________________________________________________________

By the way I have actually had a girl look over, make eye contact, and smile before but I just never admitted it. They were working so I couldn't tell if they were just being nice or something. I don't know its just so confusing but the way she looked didn't seem like she was just being nice. Gah, it's so hard to tell sometimes X(.


@Shells and hardrurus- I don't mind at all if you respond to each other's posts because you are just defending what you believe. I don't think you are thread jacking at all and it doesn't offend me so feel free to post away.

 

[Wyrm]

@Shells and hardrurus- I don't mind at all if you respond to each other's posts because you are just defending what you believe. I don't think you are thread jacking at all and it doesn't offend me so feel free to post away.

Remedy, I didn't think it would bother you, so I have no issue in continuing this debate publicly on this thread, but thanks for letting me know.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I feel that this thread has run its course.