A jaguarundi guide to finding someone

[ardour]

I continue to maintain that it is not a waste of time, that if you think it's boring, you are saying that other people bore you, and are disrespecting them to think so. And, it might be OK when you are young to dive into deep waters straight off the bat conversationally speaking - but not always when you are older. Also, assuming that deep and meaningful is always better than small-talk is silly.

Just want to say I really like this part. People who don't do small talk are usually the boring ones.

 

[GirlwithCuriousHair]

That's very very true. At the risk of upsetting people, I'm going to say something...

I read quite a few people on here saying they're not interested in small talk, or in discussing subjects they have no interest in. Now it's fair enough that you have your own interests, and that you don't want to fake it. But I think that if you have niche interests, and you're not open to other things, it would seem to follow logically that you are kinda limiting yourself.

Not trying to single anybody out - I'm mentioning it because it seems like a really common theme.

 

[jaguarundi]

That's very very true. At the risk of upsetting people, I'm going to say something...

I read quite a few people on here saying they're not interested in small talk, or in discussing subjects they have no interest in. Now it's fair enough that you have your own interests, and that you don't want to fake it. But I think that if you have niche interests, and you're not open to other things, it would seem to follow logically that you are kinda limiting yourself.

Not trying to single anybody out - I'm mentioning it because it seems like a really common theme.

This is indeed why I brought it up. In any case, like my ALL name, I am as curious as a cat about other people - what they like (or don't) is interesting. Isn't it? Just because I would never want to catch a fish myself doesn't mean that some guy's love of fishing is uninteresting to me, and if I ask the right kind of questions, I can find out WHY they like it. And at that level (as opposed to, say, the mechanics of it, although I found that quite interesting too) we all have things in common.

So - not that this has anything to do with it, but just to show what you might do with small talk, why do guys and gals fish? The ones I asked fundamentally liked the peace and quiet, in the countryside, away from stress of work or home, with perhaps the excitement of nabbing a fish - maybe even a record size one, at the end of it. Some like d the fact that it is an egalitarian thing (excluding fly fishing for salmon, which costs). If I hadn't chatted, I wouldn't have known.... now I do, I can chat more about it if I meet another angler. Hell, they have got Kevin Bacon pretending to be one on a UK TV ad. If I met him, why wouldn't I want to chat about it......

 

[jaguarundi]

Rapport​

You generally know when you have a rapport with someone. You feel relaxed and open, maybe even more 'yourself' than with other people. But how do you develop it when you are the kind of person who is tense and anxious around people you don't know well? Or even among people you do know. The answer is that you can generate rapport. You really can.

I am going to talk about body language here. But what I am not going to do is talk about analysing other peoples body language in order to find out things like - do they like me, are they being deceitful, what are they thinking, really? - that stuff. This is different. This is POWER mwha mwha ha ha ha. No really, this stuff actually works - it is used in sales and marketing, it is one of the factors that can lead you to buy something that you don't actually want or need. But you guys are not so manipulative, and you are going to use it to improve your personal and working life.

Mind how They Talk

This can easily work on the phone with someone, as well as in person. So if you are wanting to set up a date or a meeting ... basically you match your talking to how the other person talks. If they talk slowly - so do you. Altering the pitch of your voice to match can help, as well. Now, I am not saying try to be a caricature of them. If you normally talk fast, for example, it might seem ridiculous if you suddenly start talking in a relaxed drawl to match a slow-speaking John Wayne type. Even worse would be to adopt an accent not yours to match with someone else - it would seem insulting. So just notice the tempo and intonation, and slow yourself down a bit - or speed up, maybe pitch a little higher or lower. That's it. You don't have to keep this up forever, but it will help the first impressions that you make, and that can be crucial, (whether we like it or not).

Breathing (well we all do it, don't we).

You can also generate rapport with another person is to breathe as they do. Breathing in sync is what we do in intimate situations, from Mothers and their babies to - well, sex, basically. So that's it - it's that easy. Well, yes it is, the problem really is that it can be a little difficult to spot someone else's breathing. It might look odd if a woman is doing it, as a guy you do not want to be staring fixedly at a woman's chest in order to notice her breathing. Or anything else if she catches you doing it...

Like all these techniques, you have to be subtle about it. I suggest that you begin by practicing this one and the one below on the bus, the train - anywhere not critical. For breathing, it is often best to be sitting next to someone rather than opposite, and you can notice the breathing with your peripheral vision. Sometimes a movement of the shoulders, perhaps of the clothes. And you breathe as they do. Same speed, same depth. If they breathe a little more deeply and then sigh, you do it. Once you are in sync and have been doing it for a little while - you venture a slightly deeper breath, and a small sigh. If they do it after you - you are in rapport with them. Congrats - you have proven that this works!

Even if you don't find this easy to do in a lot of situations, it is good to use it with someone you have got to know and are sitting next to, in an interval when you are not talking.

Posture and Movement

Matching body posture and movement is perhaps the easiest of all to do - providing you are subtle. What tends to happens with people in rapport with each other, either with couples or in groups, is that they adopt similar posture when together. You can observe this easily - watch people at the same table in a restaurant, people in a meeting, couples sitting on a park bench.

So lets say you are going to try this out. Someone is sitting leaning back in the chair, legs crossed, one arm on the table. You do the same. They lean forward a bit - you do it too. Say it is a woman, who fiddles with her earring. You gently scratch the side of your neck, perhaps. It can also work by fiddling with something on a different plane than your ear or neck - twiddling the pen in your hand instead for example. If they cross their legs - you do it, or perhaps to be less obvious, your ankles. Possibly even to be much less obvious, fold your hands. Got it?

Again, don't be hugely obvious. If someone gets up and starts pacing the floor, you don't so that. What you can do is gently tap or move one of your feet in time to their pacing. If they link their hands behind their head and stretch your legs out, you can stretch a little in your seat - perhaps stretch your neck and rub the back a little with one hand. Like that - you see? Not obvious, subtle...

Once you have established rapport by matching one person for a while, test the rapport by moving. If you were both leaning forward, lean back a little. If they move as you do - you have rapport with that person. If your date is leaning back, take your time, generate rapport with them, then lean forward into a more intimate, closer position. And they will, too. Notice I said take your time with this, and don't be gutted if it doesn't work on everyone. .. and if it doesn't, this can be one of the reasons...

... some people rarely sit, talk move or breathe in rapport with other people. It doesn't really matter why they don't - they don't. If everyone leans forward, they lean back, if people move, they sit still. And so on. It's as if they are wilfully separating themselves from the others. Are you one of these people? If you are, it can explain why it is that you do not feel part of a group, or at ease with other people. Because in effect, you are signalling to them that you don't like them - and they are unconsciously picking it up. And in a one on one situation like a date, it can be fatal. You are giving off 'a bad vibe' without really even noticing it. If you are doing this a lot it might very well be a factor in your lack of success with other people.

Now I am not saying that any of the above will automatically make everyone adore you, give you an immediate promotion or have the partner of your dreams fall into your hands like a ripe plum. If you have insufficient talent for your job, dislike your colleagues and have nothing really in common with your date, then it won't get you what you want. It will however help. People will relate to you, and feel well disposed to you, which is not a bad thing in itself.

And in the right situation - a date with someone who has similar values, meeting people at a group or club you have joined, going for an interview for a job for which you are well qualified, lets say - you have upped your chances a lot. I have even been verbally offered a job for which I was quite unsuited by using these techniques. What happened in that case is that once I was gone, the effect wore off and the other person realised that although they liked me, it wasn't enough, so of course the firm job offer never came through. This could be true if you ask someone for a coffee - they may agree when you are there, but then cancel afterwards because they really are too busy, they don't date people who like football - whatever. The effect is at its strongest while you are actually there and only persists if what the other person wants aligns with what you want. However, they will still quite like you, or feel OK about you, which is not a bad thing, obviously.

By using these techniques successfully you will gain a feeling of more confidence and control in situations involving other people, which is valuable if you are anxious and nervous. A feeling that will grow over time until you don't fear these situations so much. Because you have these tools to help you.

Tip 8 Matching posture, movement, voice and breathing can give you an enormous advantage with people. Use it well, use it wisely. Use it often.​

 

[Batman55]

That's very very true. At the risk of upsetting people, I'm going to say something...

I read quite a few people on here saying they're not interested in small talk, or in discussing subjects they have no interest in. Now it's fair enough that you have your own interests, and that you don't want to fake it. But I think that if you have niche interests, and you're not open to other things, it would seem to follow logically that you are kinda limiting yourself.

Not trying to single anybody out - I'm mentioning it because it seems like a really common theme.

I'm aware you're not trying to single anyone out, but I must say my type of brain/mind/whatever is not of the "generalist" variety. It is fragmentary, specializing in small parts of a few subjects here and there... I've never asked for this, I would prefer to soak up more information about things I don't care about. But I have tried to "force" becoming interested in things I don't care about, only to find my brain does not cooperate.

I think however someone such as me can improve in this area by forced exposure to social situations, picking up patterns, eventually being able to fake interest in some things in a semi-convincing fashion. It's about keeping social skills from getting rusty. (Right now, I've never been rustier.)

But I digress... the more I think about finding someone, the more I realize how I seem to have the opposite of most traits women look for. At a certain point isn't it more logical to say it's not for me, I wasn't built for romance, so I can stop feeling left out? Not to be a downer but this "entitlement of a romantic relationship" that I seem to find everywhere (or is just a Western thing?) really does not make sense to me. I used to believe having a relationship is required or it is supposed to happen for everyone, and that seems to be the message that society sends out. Believing that has caused enough damage. Relationships are not for everyone, and it's really just that simple. IMHO, anyway.

 

[jaguarundi]

But I digress... the more I think about finding someone, the more I realize how I seem to have the opposite of most traits women look for. At a certain point isn't it more logical to say it's not for me, I wasn't built for romance, so I can stop feeling left out?

This issue, like many others, has some simplified choices you can make.

~~ You want something, you are not happy without out it, so you do everything you possibly can to get what you want, even things you find difficult.

~~ You want something, but you ]don't want to try everything you can to get it, so you make the most of what you have and are happy with that.

~~ You want something, but you are not prepared to try everything you can to get it, yet you moan and whine and ***** and are not happy that you do not have it.

The first two are perfectly tenable options. The third one makes you a pain in the arse to yourself and everyone else.

Batters my friend, if you don't want to - or in your case cannot - try everything possible to get a romantic relationship, then forget about it, and just be happy as you are. Being happy and content with your life - isn't that what most people want anyway?

 

[Grackle]

Best tip yet, Jag !! Going to the garden today and will definitely be trying this out. Might get my name moved up the list for a ground plot haha.

I'll add a forth option (if you don't mind) for Batters: You want something, you try what you're willing to try and then find out that you really don't want it after all.

This world is sex crazy, its become a sport and instead of going out with your pals and playing a game of ball, they go out and try to get laid. That culture and all the crap on TV and movies leads us single people to believe that everyone in the world has to be married or have a partner in order to be happy or worse yet.... in order to be normal. I want someone for companionship, male or female, I don't really care anymore only I feel females are more apt to be emotionally available. (If that makes sense). But if a person doesn't desire a romantic or any kind of deep relationship with another person, I feel there's nothing wrong with them and perhaps its for the best to just aim to build your pile of friendships up, instead. If you even desire to have friends. I have one friend which I feel is enough though I would be quite happy with another one but I'm comfortable with just the one.
See? Even with friends, we're lead to believe there's something wring with us if we don't have 600+ friends on FB. Nothing wrong or unnatural to have one friend !!

 

[jaguarundi]

^ Good point G. I myself have always been a 'quality not quantity' person when it comes to friends. And I may lack sufficient imagination but I fail to see how all the 'friends' on facebook can possibly be called friends, in a the way that I would mean it.

As for sex - it's a personal thing, how much you want, or need, or think you need. I don't necessarily think it's wrong for people today to view it as a sport. What I do think is wrong is to believe that it is somehow the be all and end all, and that if you aren't getting laid there is something wrong with you.

It's great and I have had my share of fun, and some of you might be surprised at how, where and who I had fun with, but there a lot of other great things out there as well, and in my not-very-humble opinion, putting having a lot of sex on a pedestal is as stupid as putting virginity there.

Anyway G I hope you and other people will try the matching techniques. Be subtle, elegant and don't rush it. Do it right and it will help you.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I cannot stress ENOUGH, how much Jag is right about rapport. I will give you an example...

I had a date a few weeks back. A very nice gentleman who managed to put me at ease fairly quickly and this is how he did it:

I was telling an amusing story (about work) and during the funniest part (punch line so to speak) I leaned forward (he was sitting across from me) and touched his hand (as if we were conspirators) and he immediately leaned forward as well.
I know it doesn't seem like much, but that was really all it took.
I never saw him again, but I can promise you that he made an impression on me.

Jag has done a wonderful job in helping people here and it's much appreciated.

 

[jaguarundi]

I cannot stress ENOUGH, how much Jag is right about rapport. I will give you an example...

I had a date a few weeks back. A very nice gentleman who managed to put me at ease fairly quickly and this is how he did it:

I was telling an amusing story (about work) and during the funniest part (punch line so to speak) I leaned forward (he was sitting across from me) and touched his hand (as if we were conspirators) and he immediately leaned forward as well.
I know it doesn't seem like much, but that was really all it took.
I never saw him again, but I can promise you that he made an impression on me.

Jag has done a wonderful job in helping people here and it's much appreciated.

Thanks Eve - he sounds like a nice guy. Pity you haven't seen him again, but I hope things in the dating department are otherwise going well for you.

 

[painter's radio]

No wonder so many relationships fail when everyone is playing these headgames and going out of their way to be dishonest. Whatever happened to just being yourself? You don't have to mimic people's gestures and breathing (wtf?!) to let them know you are interested in what they are saying. I suppose "guides" like this one are for people who are very, very unconscious about how to behave in society, not self-aware enough to spot when they are sitting like a slob with their hand in their pants and farting at the 5 star restaurant table on a first date... people who lack common sense. But these lovely deceitful social experiments will massively overcomplicate things for these kinds of people.

 

[EveWasFramed]

The advice given here isn't head games or being dishonest in my opinion.
If you will notice, quite a number of the guys who are participating in this thread do indeed have social issues that keep them from behaving (what society and most people would call) normally when interacting with the opposite sex.
While I understand what you're saying, I do feel that calling it head games is a bit extreme.

 

[jaguarundi]

There is nothing 'head game' nor dishonest about any of this. Every day in every way people attempt to influence others. Many people are naturally good at gaining rapport with others - they never need to think about this because they don't have to. As I have said, you see this all around you with people in rapport at meetings, eating or just sitting talking.

Why on earth then should those people who are NOT naturally good at this not have the opportunity to learn how? Why is it not OK to learn how to do what comes naturally to other people. Would anyone say this about learning how to play tennis? Cook? Run a marathon?

Is it OK to let people with fewer rapport skills flounder in a morass of difficulty without a way out? Not knowing that a few quite simple techniques will help their lives in every way?

I am at a loss to understand why anyone would want to discourage someone else from finding a way to be happier.

 

[painter's radio]

There is nothing 'head game' nor dishonest about any of this. Every day in every way people attempt to influence others. Many people are naturally good at gaining rapport with others - they never need to think about this because they don't have to. As I have said, you see this all around you with people in rapport at meetings, eating or just sitting talking.

Why on earth then should those people who are NOT naturally good at this not have the opportunity to learn how? Why is it not OK to learn how to do what comes naturally to other people. Would anyone say this about learning how to play tennis? Cook? Run a marathon?

Is it OK to let people with fewer rapport skills flounder in a morass of difficulty without a way out? Not knowing that a few quite simple techniques will help their lives in every way?

I am at a loss to understand why anyone would want to discourage someone else from finding a way to be happier.

That's a bit of a leap of logic there tbh, and not at all what I am trying to do/say. Just because I think some of your advice is bad, doesn't mean I am against people being happier. Quite the contrary, in fact. I just think that people should be more focused on themselves, the person they are talking to, and what they are talking about, being and living in the moment paying them their full attention, not playing games and applying psychological marketing techniques to them, distracting them from the actual meeting and giving them a lot more to worry and think about.

If you don't feel the need to scratch your head, then don't. Doing so purely to mimic the other person in an attempt to subconsciously score points with them is bizarre and yes, I find it deceptive. You are acting with unnatural ulterior motives, OK so they are not harmful as such but really I think people should be more focused on the conversation than trying to sync up their breathing with the other person's.

 

[jaguarundi]

There is nothing 'head game' nor dishonest about any of this. Every day in every way people attempt to influence others. Many people are naturally good at gaining rapport with others - they never need to think about this because they don't have to. As I have said, you see this all around you with people in rapport at meetings, eating or just sitting talking.

Why on earth then should those people who are NOT naturally good at this not have the opportunity to learn how? Why is it not OK to learn how to do what comes naturally to other people. Would anyone say this about learning how to play tennis? Cook? Run a marathon?

Is it OK to let people with fewer rapport skills flounder in a morass of difficulty without a way out? Not knowing that a few quite simple techniques will help their lives in every way?

I am at a loss to understand why anyone would want to discourage someone else from finding a way to be happier.

That's a bit of a leap of logic there tbh, and not at all what I am trying to do/say. Just because I think some of your advice is bad, doesn't mean I am against people being happier. Quite the contrary, in fact. I just think that people should be more focused on themselves, the person they are talking to, and what they are talking about, being and living in the moment paying them their full attention, not playing games and applying psychological marketing techniques to them, distracting them from the actual meeting and giving them a lot more to worry and think about.

If you don't feel the need to scratch your head, then don't. Doing so purely to mimic the other person in an attempt to subconsciously score points with them is bizarre and yes, I find it deceptive. You are acting with unnatural ulterior motives, OK so they are not harmful as such but really I think people should be more focused on the conversation than trying to sync up their breathing with the other person's.

Most research shows that body language is at least as important to people's perceptions as what someone actually says.

I repeat that I have tested these techniques and they really work. I used not be good with people, and tended to feel useless and clumsy in this respect. Now I don't, by and large.

You clearly think that I am wrong, but I reiterate - years of practice - in very stressful work situations that used to make me vomit before difficult meetings before I tried this stuff - have integrated this into who I am. I feel that I became the person that I was meant to be - although I have no doubt that there is room for improvement. Before I was less than I could be, or deserved to be.

In any case, if you are listening to what someone says rather than talking yourself, you will have time to match a bit of body language, and it really does not take any thought at all if you practice a bit first, as I have suggested.

It is your intention that makes something manipulative. If a man tells me he loves me to get me into bed - that is manipulative. If a woman takes a guy because he is rich - so might that be. Everyone tries to influence. If you have integrity when you use these techniques, really like a person and want them to like you, I think you deserve to have the skills to take your best shot.

Why not give it a go yourself - a serious go, not a 'lets do this to prove jag was wrong' kind of a go. If you don't want to - that's fine, but I know from PM's and posts that there are people out there who are trying some of these hints and tips and are finding them useful. I would love it if you did, too....

 

[TheRealCallie]

Most research shows that body language is at least as important to people's perceptions as what someone actually says.

Body language is important, but to alter yourself for the sake of someone else is not the way to go about finding someone. To be in a relationship, a person must accept you for who you are and you must accept them as they are or the relationship will never work. This includes body language.

I repeat that I have tested these techniques and they really work. I used not be good with people, and tended to feel useless and clumsy in this respect. Now I don't, by and large.

You clearly think that I am wrong, but I reiterate - years of practice - in very stressful work situations that used to make me vomit before difficult meetings before I tried this stuff - have integrated this into who I am. I feel that I became the person that I was meant to be - although I have no doubt that there is room for improvement. Before I was less than I could be, or deserved to be.

Just because something worked for you, does not mean that it will work for everyone else. Personally, for me, mind over matter did more for me than changing what I do and how I behave. Feeling confident (but not overly so) and learning to like yourself (or at least accept yourself) will get your further than trying to change who you are or how you behave.

 

[jaguarundi]

Developing new skills changes who you are, how you behave and how you see yourself. Happens all through life.

Learn how to drive - you become a driver, you behave like a driver.
Learn medical skills, you become a doctor, or a nurse and you behave like a doctor or nurse

Learn how to match body language, you become good with people.

It really can be that simple. And I am certainly not the only person in the world who has learned this.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Developing new skills changes who you are, how you behave and how you see yourself. Happens all through life.

Learn how to drive - you become a driver, you behave like a driver.
Learn medical skills, you become a doctor, or a nurse and you behave like a doctor or nurse

Learn how to match body language, you become good with people.

It really can be that simple. And I am certainly not the only person in the world who has learned this.

Making yourself a better person is fantastic and I most definitely encourage it. HOWEVER, to do so for someone else is completely the wrong reason to do it.
If you want to become a better person, by all means, find what works for you and do so. But do NOT do it for someone else or for the chance of getting a significant other.

I never said you were the only person who finds that your method works. I'm simply saying it's not the only way and just because it works for some people does not mean it will for everyone. I think you're putting too much emphasis on the whole "do it MY way." Maybe others don't see that in what you write, but I kind of do.

 

[jaguarundi]

LOL

I kind of made it clear right from the beginning of the thread that this was my way! A Jaguarundi guide...

And you have your views, which are not the same.

As I believe my own, I will certainly feel that I should stand up for them, because I truly believe that it can help.

 

[Grackle]

If these tips don't suit anyones idea of how to go about finding friends or a SO, then don't use them. I don't understand why anyone would poo poo what Jag is doing ?? At least she is offering advice, giving up her time in hopes of helping someone.
These are tips, not a written rule in how people are SUPPOSE to go about it. And as all tips or suggestions go .... take it or leave it.