A jaguarundi guide to finding someone

[African_weasel]

Mas tips por favor

 

[FreedomFromLiberty]

Yes, there is that. I have experienced many situations where my heart literally hurt because of my loneliness but when I mingled with people, couples, I had a inner voice admitting what I saw was most unpleasant. A feeling that maybe I'm better off single, lucky to avoid such conflicts in my life. I sometimes wonder if its not loneliness at all, that its another affliction altogether and I just 'think' I'm lonely. idk, so complicated.

Not that I'm a relationship guru or anything, but I think that it's better to be single than be a destructive relationship or a relationship where each person's needs and boundaries are not respected. It sure seems though that a lot of people succumb to loneliness and end up in LTRs with people that they aren't really well matched to. I think my parents would be an example of that.

---

Sensitive ? Pretty sure you're right.

I do stop, eventually. I added the last paragraph to show that I have gone through a tremendous amount of negativity in my life so I know how destructive it can be.

About all this negativity stuff. I don't really think it's possible to try and will yourself to stop being negative. I think the best way to lessen the amount of negativity that you feel is to actively replace your negative thoughts with something else. It's hard to think about all the honeysuckle that you have gone through when you are actively engaged in trying to accomplish something, going someplace new, and doing new things. The negativity will be in the background of your mind, but it won't be fueled as much as just sitting around and dwelling on the bad things that have happened to you.

 

[Batman55]

So why not dress up just a bit more, so that you can give men a bit more of clue about how desirable you are? they said.

And I thought about it and it seemed fair enough. And I think it goes for men as well as for women, too.

Anyway that's what I think.

It makes a lot of sense. But I think I'd just simply feel weird wearing raglan tees or whatever is currently "in" for men. Of course I'd like to look desirable instead of bland and boring, but the desirable look doesn't fit me well.

I'd have to do it the autistic way and somehow adopt the look as a kind of mask, that's the only way I could accept it. If you're on the spectrum, you don't mesh with the mainstream, you adopt it for X amount of needed time, then drop it as soon as you get home and feel relieved to be your actual self again. Then the next day, you have to pick up all the masks again, and run the emulator program once more. It's exhausting for us, and confusing for people not on the spectrum.. how could something as simple as finding and wearing new clothes make you uncomfortable? It's hard to explain really.. for me it's more of a compulsive need for sameness/routine, I guess.

 

[jaguarundi]

I'm having a hard time understanding all this weasel and flying monkey business. Is it an inside joke ?

Only inside the thread lovely Grackle. (And anyone else wondering about it)

Right back in post number one I said
I can do no more, apart from noting who you are and sending a rabid weasel to your home address... ***thinks mwhahahha they think I am joking***
That was the birth of the rabid weasels. Every now and then they have been referenced and the flying monkeys also came along. Anyone who wants to waste a bit of time can check back from the beginning and trace them....
Even the boring loquacious old jaguarundi likes to play with a silly toy on a bit of string from time to time... ______________

But fear not the next installment is written.. I want to leave it a day then look at it again to be sure it needs no further editing. If that's OK with everyone

 

[Grackle]

Ah, I see. Well, I fully approve of having fun.

 

[jaguarundi]

Before the next tip, Batman - this is for you and anyone on the autistic end of things, as I think you intimated you were. As far as I can find out in a far from comprehensive look at the topic, there appears to be no consensus about Autism and Asperger's, or what might be done for those who have it. Including seeing Asperger's as simply a personality trait worth preserving because it often brings amazing gifts of concentration and attention to detail with it.

In relation to empathy (which you have said you lacked) it seems that some even believe that those having these issue might in fact be more sensitive and empathic than ordinary people, not less.

Specific to you personally little flying mouse, I would say that your thinking of possible finding an SO must mean that you have emotional responses (or why bother), and the fact that you are careful to avoid negativity on this thread so you won't upset me shows either that you do have empathy, or that you are scared shitless of me. Neither of which shows lack of emotion, in my book.

So can any of this help you? I have no idea. But what have you got to lose if you try it?

 

[Grackle]

FreedomFromLiberty - I think you hit on a real good point regarding negative thoughts. They will be there, in us but do we give them our full attention or do we try and stuff as much activity in our day to replace them. Very good point.

The old saying " Careful what you ask for" might apply here. I want a relationship but a good one, not with a demanding selfish person but with someone who wants to take and give equally. I have a tremendous amount of love to give but can just anyone handle it ? LOL thats the question.

 

[jaguarundi]

Changing Negative Thoughts​

So, having hammered home the point that negative thinking is your enemy when finding romance (and pretty much anything else when it comes down to it), how do you set about changing negative thoughts.

There a are several techniques for doing this. One is to try positive affirmations, and doing this can be a good thing, but some people find it doesn't necessarily help, and here is why. A lot of our upbringing consists of parents, teachers or other adults, and other kids, giving us negative messages. You are an idiot. You're clumsy, you are fat, or ugly, or stupid, laughable, worthless, un-loveable - all kinds of negative and downright nasty things. And we take those negative messages in. Some of us more than others - and I am willing to bet the kind of sensitive people on ALL have probably taken in a LOT of crap. And not just as children or teenagers, because once we have these voices in our head telling us this stuff, we tend to accumulate evidence that appears to prove them right, whilst ignoring any that proves them wrong.

So - when we are trying to do something, the positive affirmations (if we are trying them) simply get drowned out by the little voices in our heads telling us that we will fail, that (in this case perhaps a dating situation) the other person won't like us, that there is no point in trying ... And so on. They can be quite overwhelming, building our anxiety and making it difficult or impossible for us to feel OK, let alone be relaxed or confident.

So lets take the example of attempting to speak to a member of the opposite sex. Think about the voice telling the above kinds of negative messages. Note what it is saying, and then:-

~~Identify where it is coming from. Your right ear, your left, above you, behind you?
~~Is it loud, is it soft, from near or far away?
~~Who is it, actually? A parent, a teacher?

Now - change the voice. If it is close, imagine it is far away. If it is on your left side, move it maybe behind you. Maybe have it coming out of your big toe, or your elbow.

And change it. Make it silly, make it squeaky or high-pitched or stupid-sounding. Turn it into Micky Mouse, or any other voice that you simply find funny. So now you have a silly squeaky voice coming out of your big toe saying (perhaps) 'She won't like you, you might as well not try.' You will not get the same feeling from it. You are taking away the power of that voice to negatively affect you.

Now see if you can motivate yourself to do whatever it is you want. If you have a sexy voice in your head telling you to do something (George Clooney might work for me here, you may find someone else more to your taste) or authoritative (Captain Picard? ) or both (back to the Captain for me) you might well be more inclined to do it. 'Call that guy on the dating site and set up a meeting Ensign Jag'. Aye Aye Captain (phworr!).. And instead of a positive affirmation saying 'I am an attractive, confident woman' you could try the same technique. 'YOU are an attractive, confident woman', says George. **Flutters eyelashes** - you know I think he's got a point..

Try it. If doing it that way works better for you, use it.

Like all of this work - you need to keep doing it. Just once might stop the voice in its tracks, but some of you may need to do it again. And again. With all the negative voices and negative thoughts you have in there, because sure as hell, there are likely to be more than one of them. Keep at it. Keep at the positive affirmations.

Tip 4 - Change your inner voices - change how you feel
​

 

[SofiasMami]

Great tips, Jag. Is now a good time to disclose I have a degree in psychology? I'm a big believer in cognitive-behavioral methods of change!
That and rabid weasels of course

-Teresa

 

[Batman55]

Well I don't like to continue filling the thread with discussion about myself but, anyway..

In relation to empathy (which you have said you lacked) it seems that some even believe that those having these issue might in fact be more sensitive and empathic than ordinary people, not less.

This is true to some extent. As for my personal experience, though, it is the sensitivity that is raised through the roof... environmental sensitivity (I can become very uncomfortable being in a noisy crowd, for example--you won't find me at a concert any day soon!). And also emotional sensitivity, although this is more about my own emotional state (it can fluctuate quickly and erratically).. it is such a pain to deal with all that, you just learn to shut it out most of the time and try to deal with it in small doses when you're able to. Again, though, this is difficult to explain.

About empathy, though. It's not that Aspergians don't have it. I have it. The problem is with expression of empathy. Expression typically comes attached with social expectations, it should be done a certain way, or at a certain time. This is all stuff learned by cooperating with other people. But the "group identity" is missing--social instinct, whatever that is, somehow is not there for us. (I can't describe the neurobiology of it, of course, just the effect.)

The effect for me is like this: I've no desire to buy presents for people at a certain time, or send out thank-you notes, or call to say "I'm sorry your dad just lost his job" to a friend. To not bother with these social graces: does it make me simply lazy? I would say no, although some would differ. It does turn out that it makes me simply uninterested in being a social and cooperative animal, however: and in this way, people with AS can be seen as selfish and lacking empathy. Expand this train of thought further, you can see how a relationship can be so profoundly difficult for someone like this, in some cases it may even be ill-advised, IMO.

Specific to you personally little flying mouse, I would say that your thinking of possible finding an SO must mean that you have emotional responses (or why bother), and the fact that you are careful to avoid negativity on this thread so you won't upset me shows either that you do have empathy, or that you are scared shitless of me. Neither of which shows lack of emotion, in my book.

Not lack of emotion or necessarily a lack of empathy, correct. But lack of a cooperative instinct, poor ability to think "globally," difficulty with controlling emotions, difficulty with change...

I also thought I would add... these problems I or anyone else with AS has, it doesn't mean you cannot learn from the advice in this thread. It just means you have to find the small parts of it you can use.. a lot of advice for folks like "us" will not fit.

 

[jaguarundi]

Great tips, Jag. Is now a good time to disclose I have a degree in psychology? I'm a big believer in cognitive-behavioral methods of change!
That and rabid weasels of course

-Teresa

I think I may have said (somewhere on ALL) that I did a lot of training in the cognitive behavioural field. Also had a good few years on Analysis before that. The therapeutic relationship with my Analyst helped me enormously, particularly in the field of establishing a stronger ego, which was the goal, but much as I got from him, (and I owe him a great deal), I think the results from the cognitive approach were way quicker and more effective in the long-term, as I can and still do, use them on myself.

As the joke goes

Person A 'I had 7 years in analysis for my bed wetting'

Person B Oh that's great, you have stopped then?

Person A Oh no, I still do it, but now I know why..

The weasels (rabid and non-rabid) found that one quite funny...

 

[ardour]

Gotta say some good advice there, although the negative voice in my head is my own, and it's often not a voice at all but the imagined outcome or reaction of the other.

We're more likely the be the sort of people who internalize and underscore every humiliating thing said of us. Maybe it's just a matter of toughening up and not taking things so personally.

 

[jaguarundi]

Changing Negative thoughts Part Deux​

Ok Tip 4 was about changing what one might call negative affirmations, and strengthening positive affirmations. But sometimes our negative thoughts are a bit more - substantial - than 'just' voices from the past whispering, shouting or whining in our ears.
Sometimes we have a whole fecking negative movie going on in there.

It is actually no more difficult to deal with than negative voices, but - it is slightly more complicated for me to explain, because everyone is different, and so you will need to find out what is happening for you as an individual, and then experiment in how to change it. These techniques work just as well for thoughts about what might happen in the future, as they do for things that have actually happened that we remember from the past.

Ok - let us deal with a real example.

Prior to starting conversations with strangers or new acquaintances I always imagine the worst reactions; their withering stare, listless, bored expression, or shock/unease (particularly with women.) I imagine myself bombing; making stupid comments, jokes or attempts at irony that falls flat. All these embarrassing scenarios are run through in my minds eye before a word is said. Posted by Ardour on his 'Anticipating Negative responses' thread.

In effect what we have there is a little movie or play, full of negativity that generates unpleasant feelings. The same is true when we replay events from the past. So - to begin to change this, forget the content of what is going on, it is not relevant to what you are going to do now, which is

focus on how this movie or play in your head looks, and sounds

~~Is it in colour, or black-and-white?
~~Is it really bright or rather dark?
~~In close-up or at a distance?
~~Clear and sharp, or out-of-focus?

Those are the most common differences, although some of you might find other visual effects, perhaps in slow-motion, or perhaps some other effect.

Ok. So now experiment. If it is in colour, try black and white, or faded colour perhaps. If it is in black and white, try colour.

Notice - does that feel better or worse?

If it is dark, brighten it, if close up - push it futher away. You get the idea? If you find that altering it makes the feeling worse, not better, stop doing that, and try another trick - making it grainy perhaps, or very faded like an over-exposed film.

The same with the the soundtrack. Is it
~~Loud or soft
~~Near or far
~~Clear or muffled
~~Booming or whispering.
~~ and so on.
Play around with altering the sounds in the same way as you did with the picture.

So what happens, lets say, is that you started off with a close-up, full bright colour movie with booming resonant sound in your head, making you feel like crap. Now you have a grainy black and white TV picture with flat sound, like a really bad B movie from the 1950's. Which does not affect you at all. Or even in fact might be kind of funny. Whenever you start having the negative thoughts about the future - do this. Switch to a movie or play that looks and sounds different.

Having done this with an imaginary future scene, you can also change the effect that memories of past unfortunate encounters with the opposite sex have on you. Note - if you are going to try this with past events, start with something 'small' NEVER start with a really traumatic past event. Get familiar with the technique first or you could end up making yourself feel worse.

And now for something not at all different. As well as destroying the negative impact of the past or your imagined future, you can use the technique in order to tune-up the good bits. One of the things that a negative outlook can do is diminish good memories. I am assuming here that somewhere, sometime you all have had an encounter with the opposite sex that was at least OK, and maybe even good. Yet I suspect you end up convincing yourself that the good ones weren't all that good. Then you focus on the bad ones.

I am guessing that you are most likely talking yourself out of your good encounters being ok (Well he was only talking to me because he had to, she didn't really mean it - whatever). So - use Tip 4 on the negative voices telling you a load of rubbish. See how that works.

And you can also use the process described above, but instead of diminishing bad feelings, use it to increase good ones. To make the memory more compelling. To see, as it were, the brighter side of life. So if that is what works for you, brighten the colours, make it close-up, sharpen the sound. Make your positive memories even more positive. This will give you a success story to build on.

Tip 5 - Destroy the impact of your negative thoughts, and tune-up the positive thoughts.​

You don't need to become a wild-eyed optimist swinging on the chandeliers (if you don't want to be). But destroying the impact of negative thoughts, and tuning-up positive memories will help your mood, your outlook and this in turn will make you a more relaxed and confident person to be around. Quietly confident, if that is your preference.

 

[Grackle]

Sitting with some co-workers today, I started to imagine which people I would feel comfortable having a friendship outside of work with and I found the two people I picked had nothing in common with me, were on the quiet side but were very mature and generally quite happy people.
I never thought I would be attracted to happy people ... something I didn't know about myself.

Thinking about what I just said, happy as in content, not laughing out loud at everything people say, kind of people. But just good natured, content with life.

 

[ardour]

One of the things that a negative outlook can do is diminish good memories. I am assuming here that somewhere, sometime you all have had an encounter with the opposite sex that was at least OK, and maybe even good. Yet I suspect you end up convincing yourself that the good ones weren't all that good. Then you focus on the bad ones.

I am guessing that you are most likely talking yourself out of your good encounters being ok (Well he was only talking to me because he had to, she didn't really mean it - whatever).

There's definitely a memory bias that dwells on past experiences that were awkward or unwelcome, and as you say here, it has a lot do with dismissing those that weren't. My thought process is often like: if someone's friendly then it's only because they're that way to everyone and nothing to do with me.

As destructive, stupid as the negativity is ... it's also comforting to fall back on cynicism and false indignation. And easier to pretend that there are no second chances with people, because, should there be another chance, there's the fear that you'll either stuff it up again, or even if manage not to things will never be quite right.

 

[jaguarundi]

I have noticed quite a few comments on this and other threads saying, basically, that the person wants an SO who loves them for who they truly are. So they don't want to - or see no need - to change to get someone.

So I want to ask - WHO are you, then? What makes up the REAL you?

I think that everybody deserves love. And of course we deserve love for who we are. But I question very seriously whether layers of negativity, hurt, guilt, anger or anything else that people have wrapped around them (not talking personality disorders here by the way), is in fact the 'real' them. The 'real' them that once was a little kid, with hopes and dreams and a shy cheeky grin. The 'real' person that once was there. Before life happened to them.

Your right to your emotions

Most people have bad experiences in their lives. Do not think that I am invalidating the emotions anyone has regarding the honeysuckle that has happened, nor their right to feel upset about it. It is important to understand that everyone's feelings are legitimate. My bad feelings about shitty things that have happened to me, are NOT more valid that your bad feelings about shitty things that have happened to you. The death of your much loved dog might be as emotionally terrible to you as my mother's death was to me. Whose loss at age 85 may be poo-poohed by someone who has had their child 'disappeared' for their political beliefs.

Everyone's feelings are just as important and valid to them, as yours are to you. Comparisons are odious.

Do you think of yourself as a survivor or a victim?

But although your feelings of anger, grief or hate can be justified, you need to think of the effects of hanging on to them. If you are looking for an SO, who would you want to be around?

~~The person who has turned their bad experiences around, has learned from them and doesn't keep living the feelings anymore, is mostly positive, and a has a sense of humour or perspective about things? Allowing for a bit of human annoyance, stress, anger and generally just having a bad day (because we are all human). A survivor.

~~The person who is angry, bitter, blames everyone and everything else for the way that they are, never moves on, whines constantly, sees the worst in everything and everyone, and will undoubtedly try to blame the other person if things go wrong (because it's never ever them). A victim.

Of course not everyone is all victim or all survivor all of the time, the mix varies and we have good days and bad days, and it can change with context. It is however worth looking at what the majority of your behaviour is like - and particularly when looking for an SO.

If you are full up with emotions like anger, hate and grief, if you define your identity by such emotions, not only do you have no room for love, happiness, generosity, and you might not even really want them. Because you are defining your identity with the negative ones, and it makes it much harder to want to change.

Do as you would be done by

I have to ask myself how many people refusing to change one iota, and demanding to be loved for who they are, WOULD NOT extend the same courtesy to a member of the opposite sex. Perhaps not even to someone they just met, instead demanding a level of perfection quite beyond most real people. If you put 'I want you to love me for who I am on the front of the T-shirt make very sure that you don't have 'but I won't give a honeysuckle about who you really are' written on the back of it.


Why changing can be so hard for some people.

So lets look at another facet of identity - defining yourself by what you cannot do, skills you do not have. 'I AM no good with people.' I AM unattractive to the opposite sex. I am a hopeless cook ... Whatever. If you begin statements like that with I am - it is a sign you think of your lack of skills as a part of your identity. The fundamental core of who you really are.

If it is about something not very important to having friends or finding someone (like cooking) then it doesn't really matter. But if it is I'm hopeless with people, I am someone with a bad vibe, then it does. Why? Because thinking like that precludes you ever really trying. It is saying - this is part of who I am and therefore it cannot be changed. Ever.

Well, it can. I did it. Why don't you decide that you can, too?

Tip 6 Decide to identify the real you by what you CAN do, not by what you can't. And then - learn to do the rest.​

I will give some tips for improving 'people' skills next tip (probably). Skills that you can use and incorporate into who you really are, - the person who can do things and is open to learning new useful skills.

 

[Solivagant]

Do as you would be done by

I have to ask myself how many people refusing to change one iota, and demanding to be loved for who they are, WOULD NOT extend the same courtesy to a member of the opposite sex. Perhaps not even to someone they just met, instead demanding a level of perfection quite beyond most real people. If you put 'I want you to love me for who I am on the front of the T-shirt make very sure that you don't have 'but I won't give a honeysuckle about who you really are' written on the back of it.

+1

 

[Triple Bogey]

One of the things that a negative outlook can do is diminish good memories. I am assuming here that somewhere, sometime you all have had an encounter with the opposite sex that was at least OK, and maybe even good. Yet I suspect you end up convincing yourself that the good ones weren't all that good. Then you focus on the bad ones.

I am guessing that you are most likely talking yourself out of your good encounters being ok (Well he was only talking to me because he had to, she didn't really mean it - whatever).

There's definitely a memory bias that dwells on past experiences that were awkward or unwelcome, and as you say here, it has a lot do with dismissing those that weren't. My thought process is often like: if someone's friendly then it's only because they're that way to everyone and nothing to do with me.


YES YES YES - And most of time it's true !
We get so little attention from women that when a friendly, smiling woman comes along we think (falsely) that they are interested in us !
Took me years to realize this !

As destructive, stupid as the negativity is ... it's also comforting to fall back on cynicism and false indignation. And easier to pretend that there are no second chances with people, because, should there be another chance, there's the fear that you'll either stuff it up again, or even if manage not to things will never be quite right.

---

Gotta say some good advice there, although the negative voice in my head is my own, and it's often not a voice at all but the imagined outcome or reaction of the other.

We're more likely the be the sort of people who internalize and underscore every humiliating thing said of us. Maybe it's just a matter of toughening up and not taking things so personally.

my brother said you need the thick skin of an elephant to succeed in the dating game - I agree with him !

 

[Grackle]

Excellent work Jag !!!really enjoyed reading your latest instalment.
Time to look deep inside ourselves and see if we want a partner so we can honeysuckle on someone, to get even with life shitting on us (which is not that uncommon) for so long Or do we want a partner so we can be happy and feel alive ...finally.

 

[ardour]

~~The person who is angry, bitter, blames everyone and everything else for the way that they are, never moves on, whines constantly, sees the worst in everything and everyone, and will undoubtedly try to blame the other person if things go wrong (because it's never ever them). A victim.

... well, this hits home, so I probably shouldn't criticize and I've said enough on this thread.

You say there's a right to negative feelings depending on our experiences, but your advice is essentially not to feel them (at all, ever if you can help it.) I'm not sure how that isn't invalidating. There's also something of a false dichotomy presented when it's implied that resentment precludes awareness of one's own behaviours and failings.