A jaguarundi guide to finding someone

[jaguarundi]

To clarify, if this is necessary.

Yes, we all have a right to our feelings of anger, hurt or whatever.

The problem comes if we hang on to them. Hang on to them, re-living them and adding to them, until one becomes not just someone who has angry and bitter feelings, but an angry and bitter person.

In other words, a person whose identity is anger, bitterness and negativity. Because once you think that those feelings are who you are, you are less likely to want to change them.

I can guarantee that anyone spending too much time with feelings like this is in danger of becoming someone who people will not want to be around for very long. A person like this will be very unlikely to attract an SO. A person like this will continue to feel slighted and overlooked. A person like this will therefore become angrier and more bitter and negative as their life goes on, because negativity breeds negativy.

Ask yourself this - 'Does clinging to feelings like this, does being a bitter, angry and negative person actually make me happy?'

I am pretty sure that my answer would be 'Hell, no.'

 

[ardour]

I get you about re-living the experiences and fuelling those emotions, letting them engulf you. How unhealthy and self-defeating it is. But 'letting go' and so on suggests an end to them altogether. A severing. Not thinking about them again. At least that's how I interpret it - you're 'not moving on' if you still feel bitterness towards someone and return to those thoughts occasionally. I guess it's how much it features in the mind. I don't regard myself as an angry person, but at times go through waves bitterness and anger, sometimes to the point where I can't sleep and it affects how I speak to people.

Thanks, I'll stop spamming your topic now.

 

[jaguarundi]

I get you about re-living the experiences and fuelling those emotions, letting them engulf you. How unhealthy and self-defeating it is. But 'letting go' and so on suggests an end to them altogether. A severing. Not thinking about them again. At least that's how I interpret it - you're 'not moving on' if you still feel bitterness towards someone and return to those thoughts occasionally. I guess it's how much it features in the mind. I don't regard myself as an angry person, but at times go through waves bitterness and anger, sometimes to the point where I can't sleep and it affects how I speak to people.

Thanks, I'll stop spamming your topic now.

No it's a fair thing to ask, I never mind any of you asking if it is because you are trying to understand.

This is not just for Ardour by the way. ALL of you need to have a think about this one.

Forget calling losing your bitterness 'moving on.' Forget calling it 'forgiveness.' Try calling it allowing yourself to be happy. It isn't the person who hurt you ages ago that is 'making you feel' like this. YOU are making yourself feel like this. It's self-abuse.

If you read Tip 5 it really does work to release the hold of negative emotions. Try it. One just one teeny-weeny memory. I dare you - and do it properly.

I don't regard myself as an angry person, but at times go through waves bitterness and anger, sometimes to the point where I can't sleep and it affects how I speak to people.

Look at yourself the way other people will see you when you feel this way. YOU don't think you are an angry person. What do you think other people will think you are?

You cannot expect the nice person who is kind and forgiving to shine through unless you show it to them. If you are so bitter and pissed-off that it affects how you speak to people, seriously, how are they going to see the other stuff? Why would they even want to try to find it?

 

[Anahita]

There are things - bad things - that happended in my life, and sometimes if I think about them too much I just get really churned up inside, feel like I cannot eat anything, and sort of - clenched-up in my neck and shoulders. It makes me feel ill. It really isn't good for physical health as well as mental health to keep going over stuff that has happened.

I mean, it isn't as if you can change what happened in the past is it? - only how you feel about it.

That's what I think anyway.

 

[jaguarundi]

^ That.

Making yourself ill and unhappy does not punish anyone else. It only punishes you.

Is that stupid or what?

 

[jaguarundi]

*******************************************************​

The non-rabid weasels have been nagging me. The rabid ones have been frothing at me. The flying monkeys have been - well, you know monkeys and the flying ones are no exception.

The next instalment is underway and will be with you sometime on Friday. In the meantime ...

[youtube]291ET6Py6H8[/youtube]​

How can you not love that??​

 

[Grackle]

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\o/
Another reason to look forward to Friday

 

[jaguarundi]

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\o/
Another reason to look forward to Friday

I do hope you were joining in - I made sure you ALL got the singalong version...

 

[jaguarundi]

When I introduced the 3 legged Siamese fiend from the nethermost pit of hell to my other two cats, they checked him out, cat style. They sniffed the air. They cautiously walked around, slightly fluffed up, just in case he was hostile. They looked at him sideways, then glanced away (staring is aggressive to another cat). They didn't get too close to him to start with. In case he might be a threat. Dogs - well basically they also have a bit of a sniff at each other to start with, then progress to sniff each other's bums.

Social Lubricant

Unless things have changed since my youth, humans don't sniff bums or fluff up our fur. Our mechanism for checking other people out, in a non-threatening way, is called small-talk. I think it's better called a social lubricant. I have noticed from various threads that there are three basic attitudes about small-talking among ALLers. One is you don't know how. Another is that your don't see why. The last is that you hold it in contempt. Here's the jaguarundi's take on this. First - You can learn how to do it. Second - Only small-minded people think that small talk is small. That's it.

Small-Talk is for checking people out, for people to suss who it might be OK to let in a bit closer, maybe as a friend or more. There are other functions, such as allowing others to see where you are in the pecking order and so on, but here I am sticking to it's use in breaking the ice and getting to know someone - basically what you need to do to make friends or find an SO.

So - for those of you who don't know how, I had a look and there is a wealth of 'how to do it' information out there about making 'small talk.' Any ages, any genders. There's even a small talk for dummies book. So I am not going to tell you how - look it up. I am going to address your attitudes to small talk, and some dos and dont's which I daresay you are all aware of anyway, but it helps to remember.

Does your attitude to small talk reflect is your attitude to people?

If you have contempt for the idea of small talk then basically, you aren't going to do it. Other people may well therefore regard you as did - and do- my cats regard the 3 legged Siamese. He didn't bother with cat etiquette, he did a few things that are no-no's to other cats. So now they don't like him, they either avoid him, or we have the occasional fight between them. Actually I think he doesn't really like other cats. Much as I love and adore kitties, they aren't as clever as us. Well, some of us - because if you can learn to have some pleasant social interactions with other people, leading to friendship at a deeper level, why choose not to? My cat can't do that. You can.

What to talk about?

I myself like a bit of intelligent convo on other topics than the weather or the price of cheese, but I wouldn't and don't despise a bit of chat on those topics, and not just as an ice-breaker. [Aside from that, a convo that starts on the price of cheese might well lead to a convo about the price farmers get for milk from dairies, EU farming policies and a whole lot more. And if you start with the weather - oh you do the math]. I am starting a 'Small Talk' thread, and would love it if all of you posted what topics you find work, what hasn't and any questions or comments that will HELP AND SUPPORT each other. If you don't use it, that's ok too. Over to you on this one...

Protection

I don't want to share my innermost thoughts and things important to me with strangers. For example, I write - and love to read- poetry, it's a deep part of my identity as a person, of my 'soul' if you like. There are idiots out there who reply 'I'm a poet and I didn't know it' and go off into gales of laughter at their 'wit' for me to never, ever mention this fact to people I barely know. Sometimes not even to people I do know. Unless I met them at a poetry workshop or poetry reading, of course. So don't reveal too much, and don't probe other people for their deepest-soul secrets, either. Apart from anything else, if you find out too much too soon it doesn't give you anywhere else to go later on in the relationship.

Bore Alert!!!

Nor would I launch into an in-depth lecture on one of my favourite subjects. A conversation is not an excuse to show-off by being a pompous, pretentious bore, or attempting to educate the supposed ignorance of my conversation partner on some topic that I believe I am an expert on. It's showing-off. No-one like a show off, especially a boring show-off. You might want to get into somebody's pants - you don't do it by boring the pants off them. It's wise simply not to bring a subject up that you are an expert in, so you aren't tempted to get going. Unless they too are an expert. And that brings up another danger..

... Competition

Note I used the term 'conversation partner' - it's a good way of looking at it. Small talk is not a game of tennis with both of you waiting to smash the convo ball so hard the other person cannot get to it. And it is not a competition to see who knows the most, or has the biggest. If you do this you will likely be seen as being the biggest - the biggest twat. It isn't confidence, it's verbal arm-wrestling and/or bragging. If want to put your point across and convince someone of your credentials, join a debating club.

Listening

You talk, you listen. They talk, they listen. What is going on should be like that. The problem is that if you are too busy thinking about what to say next (either because you are nervous and unaccustomed to chatter, or trying to point-score) it makes it hard to listen. It is however essential, and will give you the clues to carry a conversation along. If someone tells you 'I would like to go to Spain,' you can develop a conversation from that, such as have you been before, where would you visit, what do you like about Spain, - - and more.

Respect

So, you aren't interested in Spain? It's boring you? Get the fresia over yourself. Seriously. People deserve enough respect for you to listen to them.(And no, I am not including racists, homophobes, or other people who have extreme and unpleasant attitudes). But no doubt you would be beyond pissed-off if they don't listen to you. Well, if you cannot find some nugget of interest in other people, in what they like or want, then I think you are either a teenager or acting like one. People are interesting. At the very least you might learn something you can use in other conversations, and it's all practice, even if you have not found a friend for life or an SO.

Questions

It's great to ask questions to get a conversation going, and to keep it going. Unfortunately if you do it too much it can come off as an interrogation. But good, open questions that don't lead to a 'yes or no answer are ideal. A question like ' Where do you' (do your shopping) is better than 'Do you use the supermarket'. 'What do you think about (anything non contentious) is a good one, as well. Get yourself a list of a few of them - and use them.

Tip 7 Small Talk isn't small, it's a social lubricant. Learn how to do it, practice often - you will get better if you do.​

... and post your progress on the Small Talk thread..

 

[Batman55]

Sorry to be a bit contrary, jags.

Call me stubborn or an idealist, but I don't believe in subscribing to the concept of a "pecking order." The last thing someone who has difficulty socializing needs to think about is where they are on the totem pole, and the potential ramifications of it. It is a kind of "no win" thinking, the very kind you yourself have warned about.

Also, if someone has trouble with small talk or cannot find a way to talk to X or Y person, it does not indicate immaturity. The only small mind I see here is the one making these judgments. As far as trying to improve one's ability in small talk, I can agree on that.. but less with the finger-pointing eh?

I know we're friends and all, but on these points, I must voice objections. Hope you're okay with it.

 

[jaguarundi]

Sorry to be a bit contrary, jags.

Call me stubborn or an idealist, but I don't believe in subscribing to the concept of a "pecking order." The last thing someone who has difficulty socializing needs to think about is where they are on the totem pole, and the potential ramifications of it. It is a kind of "no win" thinking, the very kind you yourself have warned about.

Also, if someone has trouble with small talk or cannot find a way to talk to X or Y person, it does not indicate immaturity. The only small mind I see here is the one making these judgments. As far as trying to improve one's ability in small talk, I can agree on that.. but less with the finger-pointing eh?

I know we're friends and all, but on these points, I must voice objections. Hope you're okay with it.

Unfortunately, and whether you are idealistic about it or not, there are people out there who do have this idea. Socially I don't like it, but in the work-place it can be kind of inevitable. Perhaps less so in countries other than the UK, I don't know. However I think you might find that a Senior VP of a company will not chat to a cleaner in the same way that he/she would to the Chief Executive. Whether or not they should is irrelevant to what people actually do.

Socially, I had this happen to me just yesterday,(and I had already written this piece), when at a Ladies Lunch one of the women started her convo about the pollen around at the moment, then quickly brought up how she was on her sit-on mower doing her acre of ground, and later was beginning another convo on the difficulties with her swimming pool with someone else. With someone else, because I admitted to having a small garden, no pool and (later) use a supermarket that is noted for its cheaper, own brands. She had me pegged as beneath her I am sure. She moved on to chat with the lady wearing the most expensive looking jewellery......

I feel sorry for anyone who has a problem with small-talk, because they feel shy, anxious and just don't know how. I believe you can learn to do it, and that practice is the best way with this. I do find that there are people who don't do it, not because they can't but because they despise it. I have often come across people who say - I just don't 'do' small-talk, and they all have said (because I ask 'why') that they think it's a waste of time, boring, not deep enough. It tends to be younger people, but not exclusively so.

I continue to maintain that it is not a waste of time, that if you think it's boring, you are saying that other people bore you, and are disrespecting them to think so. And, it might be OK when you are young to dive into deep waters straight off the bat conversationally speaking - but not always when you are older. Also, assuming that deep and meaningful is always better than small-talk is silly.

If you are in a forum that makes it safe then it's OK to go a little deeper. I met a good friend of mine in the Ethics sub-group of an organisation I was a member of, so obviously we could start out with a deeper subject in the beginning. But I am pretty sure we still sussed each other out by starting out with a 'do you come here often' type of remark. And she is one of the most intelligent and competent people I know. One of the reasons that joining groups and clubs is good way to meet people, is because you already have a common interest to use as a starting place for convo.

As for finger pointing - Batters, you always seem to take personally things not meant for you, or indeed anyone specifically. I was no good at small talk and made most of the mistakes that I have outlined at one time or another, and occasionally still do. But I learned from my mistakes and now I quite enjoy a pleasant, non-threatening, non-competitive, easy, bit of small talk.

 

[jaguarundi]

^ I had to dash out as I was finishing up the above post as a friend called wanting to meet up for coffee.

So I am just now adding the following. The Ladies Lunch that I mentioned above goes to prove how absolutely successful small talk was, with the above-mentioned woman. She seemed to decide that I did not meet her standards as a friend (no swimming pool, use supermarket own brands - heinous crimes lol!) I decided that I would not be likely to pursue a friendship with her.

There were no hard feelings, nothing that would make me never want to have a small chat with her again at the next Ladies Lunch, or cause an atmosphere, just nothing that would make me want to go deeper. And that ladies and gentleman, is a result, in my book!

 

[Batman55]

Unfortunately, and whether you are idealistic about it or not, there are people out there who do have this idea. Socially I don't like it, but in the work-place it can be kind of inevitable. Perhaps less so in countries other than the UK, I don't know. However I think you might find that a Senior VP of a company will not chat to a cleaner in the same way that he/she would to the Chief Executive. Whether or not they should is irrelevant to what people actually do.

You're right about this. I'm just against the idea in general, a believer that human value should be distributed more equally, greedy fat cats shouldn't always get their way, the arrogant should be condemned to hell, and all that kind of stuff. It's nothing to do with you, just my own personal crusade, and I just felt compelled to say something about it for the heck of it. Sorry if it's off-topic.

 

[jaguarundi]

Unfortunately, and whether you are idealistic about it or not, there are people out there who do have this idea. Socially I don't like it, but in the work-place it can be kind of inevitable. Perhaps less so in countries other than the UK, I don't know. However I think you might find that a Senior VP of a company will not chat to a cleaner in the same way that he/she would to the Chief Executive. Whether or not they should is irrelevant to what people actually do.

You're right about this. I'm just against the idea in general, a believer that human value should be distributed more equally, greedy fat cats shouldn't always get their way, the arrogant should be condemned to hell, and all that kind of stuff. It's nothing to do with you, just my own personal crusade, and I just felt compelled to say something about it for the heck of it. Sorry if it's off-topic.

' s ok. But one thing that a bit of small-talk highlights is that kind of person, or indeed anyone who may not have values in line with your own. Just because you may not meet a potential friend or SO from it does not mean you have failed. You cannot like everyone you encounter. Or they you. You can however choose to be polite and - keep looking. In any case, the lady I referred to may bring someone with her next time, and I might get on with them. But I have not been OK with the first woman.... Apply this to members of the opposite sex, as well.

 

[Solivagant]

Whether or not they should is irrelevant to what people actually do.

Sums up the source of my greatest frustrations in life, lol. The most infuriating truth I ever had to learn.

 

[jaguarundi]

Whether or not they should is irrelevant to what people actually do.

Sums up the source of my greatest frustrations in life, lol. The most infuriating truth I ever had to learn.

Indeed. It's easy to get upset and outraged, then move on from there to cynicism and bitterness, when people are just being - people, basically. No-one is perfect (except me, obviously...).

 

[jaguarundi]

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I have been chatting with the weasels and the flying monkies while sitting in the nursery watching the foaming measely wonky flies, who have turned from grubs into pupae.

We have a difference of opinion going on.

The weasels are dead against me giving the next tip, as they think some of you out there will misuse it. The Flying Monkeys say that most of you won't bother trying any of what I advise anyway, or do so in such a way as to be sure you fail, so what difference will it make.

The debate is raging, but I think I might do it anyway. Friday or Saturday is the release date.

Here is the light entertainment clip ..... this one is pure fecking gold, right to the end....

[youtube]kOA38bPLGG4[/youtube]​

 

[Grackle]

I say lay it on us. Some of us need all the help you can give us.

 

[Veruca]

Thanks for taking the time to write these tips down for us Jag. I can relate to many of them and find all useful in one way or another.

I don't know if this is useful to anyone, but I thought I'd share it here in the spirit of helping one another.

Thanks to the superficial world we live in, I grew up being bullied for being chubby and geeky. Naturally, I was a complete loser when it came to romantic pursuits.

A few years ago, I went all out to change my appearance. It seemed to me that all the pretty girls got the guys, so I decided that it was worth a shot. I knew it was superficial, because I happened to like the way I was. But it wasn't helping my cause with the boys.

Anyway, after losing a lot of weight, wearing flattering, mainstream clothes, wearing make up etc. After trying to make myself as appealing as possible to the opposite sex physically, it so happened that I went from being ignored, to suddenly getting a lot of male attention.

Sadly, not the good kind. 99% of the time, the only reason men showed any interest was to get into my pants. Or have some kind of trophy gf.

And the 1% of the good men lost interest in me very quickly after getting to know me. I didn't understand why at first. I couldn't be that horrible seeing that I had friends, or so I thought.

As it turns out, years of rejection and disappointment etc had made me a bitter, cynical and extremely negative person. The more I dug, the more flaws I found.

A part of me thinks, why change? I deserve to be loved as I am, after all, despite being negative, I am a good person.

But as Jag pointed out, that's not what people see when they're with you. People want to be around people who make them feel good. Happy. Hopeful. Safe etc. Or at least that's what I want with someone. A bit silly to think of myself being the opposite of what I want eh?

Anyway, the point of this long story is that my personal experiences have taught me to understand that looks are important but only to a certain extend. It is not necessary to look like a model from a magazine. It is necessary (and quite enough) to be well groomed, to wear flattering clothes and to look like you take pride in your appearance. Beyond that however, it is most important to have a likeable personality if one wants to be in a healthy, loving relationship.

Sorry about the long reply

 

[jaguarundi]

Grackle, thank you so much for your support.

Thanks for sharing that, Veruca -

As it turns out, years of rejection and disappointment etc had made me a bitter, cynical and extremely negative person. The more I dug, the more flaws I found.

Don't think of these things as flaws. I believe it is more helpful to think more along the lines of them being like moss or grime that has covered you over, like a lovely statue in a garden, and that with a bit of work and attention you can scrub all of it off and reveal the beauty that is you....