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Do you know a computer language?
#1
If so, which one? Smile have you used it?
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#2
I knew how to program in C, and Basic but...those are obsolete now since more updated versions are out. Used to use it and even taught a very smart kid I babysat how to program. Don't any more though. I do okay with code for templates but haven't done that in years either.
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#3
  • Binary
  • Hex
  • Some HTML
  • Some CSS
  • Some Javascript
  • Some Python (I hate Python)
Only understanding of binary is really relevant to me right now. I had to learn this in my spare time:
http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_IPVaria...VLSM-3.htm
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
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#4
I know Python, learned some C++, and am currently learning Ruby/RoR. Back when snakes used to have legs I used Basic 2.0 on my Commodore 64.

Why do you hate Python?
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#5
(01-25-2015, 02:52 PM)mickey Wrote: I know Python, learned some C++, and am currently learning Ruby/RoR. Back when snakes used to have legs I used Basic 2.0 on my Commodore 64.

Why do you hate Python?

Python was my first "real" programming language, and unfortunately it's often watered down to the point of childishness in order to be marketed as a cute little "beginner's language". That on top of forcing new programmers to think about the fundamentals far less often than other languages by nature left a sour taste in my mouth. Just an unpleasant experience.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
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#6
(01-25-2015, 02:58 PM)Tealeaf Wrote:
(01-25-2015, 02:52 PM)mickey Wrote: I know Python, learned some C++, and am currently learning Ruby/RoR. Back when snakes used to have legs I used Basic 2.0 on my Commodore 64.

Why do you hate Python?

Python was my first "real" programming language, and unfortunately it's often watered down to the point of childishness in order to be marketed as a cute little "beginner's language". That on top of forcing new programmers to think about the fundamentals far less often than other languages by nature left a sour taste in my mouth. Just an unpleasant experience.

Well, to someone who hasn't studied computer science formally, programming terminology is bewildering until s/he has a chance to self-study it properly. That is most easily done through a language such as Python, not only because the self-teaching tools for it exist, but also because it converts what would be semantic errors in many other languages into either syntax errors or exceptions. I don't believe that programming should be an exclusive secret society where only those who are "good enough" are permitted admission. The general public is becoming more and more uninformed about computer science as the IT industry encourages them to stick to sharing photos and watching videos, so the door shouldn't be shut in the face of anyone who shows an interest in learning computer science.

I also don't know anyone who actually programs in Python in this Age of RoR. If the language is to survive, then it needs to be able to bring in new blood for _some_ reason, and one reason is as a beginner language.
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#7
(01-25-2015, 11:46 PM)mickey Wrote:
(01-25-2015, 02:58 PM)Tealeaf Wrote:
(01-25-2015, 02:52 PM)mickey Wrote: I know Python, learned some C++, and am currently learning Ruby/RoR. Back when snakes used to have legs I used Basic 2.0 on my Commodore 64.

Why do you hate Python?

Python was my first "real" programming language, and unfortunately it's often watered down to the point of childishness in order to be marketed as a cute little "beginner's language". That on top of forcing new programmers to think about the fundamentals far less often than other languages by nature left a sour taste in my mouth. Just an unpleasant experience.

Well, to someone who hasn't studied computer science formally, programming terminology is bewildering until s/he has a chance to self-study it properly. That is most easily done through a language such as Python, not only because the self-teaching tools for it exist, but also because it converts what would be semantic errors in many other languages into either syntax errors or exceptions. I don't believe that programming should be an exclusive secret society where only those who are "good enough" are permitted admission. The general public is becoming more and more uninformed about computer science as the IT industry encourages them to stick to sharing photos and watching videos, so the door shouldn't be shut in the face of anyone who shows an interest in learning computer science.

I also don't know anyone who actually programs in Python in this Age of RoR. If the language is to survive, then it needs to be able to bring in new blood for _some_ reason, and one reason is as a beginner language.

I don't think the terminology is that terribly difficult, at least if we're talking about the basic statements and components of a program. I know there are computer logic classes out there that are good for CS students, though everyone else would benefit from some passing understanding. I don't know if you've taken a beginner's Python course or read a book, but three months waffling over a text-only hangman game is way too leisurely a pace in my opinion. I'd rather have had more efficient coursework and a more skilled instructor.

Sure, I might have been able to "make something" in Python and say that I could program in Python... but I didn't really understand it and learning on my own was agony. Nothing like the fun of other topics that gave me knowledge of the fundamentals that I could build off of. I don't consider that a good result, and while mileage may vary I've never seen someone either working as a programmer or passionate about programming who cites Python as their first. Only someone running a beginner's blog and another who regrets it being their first.

I don't think the door should be shut in anyone's face if they're either talented or interested, but past a point simplifying the material only hurts. If they struggle with the concept of absolute versus relative paths they should certainly be allowed to study, practice, and grow their understanding to their heart's content. If it has to be made easier and easier on top of that, well... maybe they shouldn't be in IT. One of my old instructors had a son who was terrible at math in his early schooling days, then eventually hit a breakthrough and went on to study engineering. I'm coming from a place where a woman teaching us about Windows Server 2012 can't (wouldn't?) explain details of the reverse-lookup process to me, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who don't want to put effort into learning or who simply don't care if it isn't easy. I had to get extra material to study to make up for what she and the class is lacking in order to ensure I know more than how to follow steps.
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
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#8
Tealeaf,

What you seem to be talking about in your reply is the instructional method rather than the language itself. Like you, I abhor being treated like a mindless drone who is expected just to follow instructions. I would have been just as miserable in your Python course as you were. But bad teaching methods don't make the language itself bad for beginners.

The problem isn't with logic, because the Boolean algebra used in programming is at the high school level. The problem is with technical terms such as "algorithm," "stack" and "exception" that a newcomer doesn't understand intuitively and needs to have explained. Learning the meaning of such terms early on is crucial to understanding any future material or being able to function as a programmer, because everyone constantly uses those terms and the thhings they refer to. But it's really hard to teach a newbie those terms if you simultaneously have to explain the arcane and esoteric syntax of a language like Java. The newb gets overwhelmed, quits studying programing and goes into business administration, where she ends up being YOUR boss while hating all programmers.

Besides, as I said, Python is very forgiving. Almost every error in Python code is either a syntax error or an exception, and execution aborts when it encounters them (barring exception raising). That's important for a beginner too, because you don't want a newb to get bogged down hunting for semantic errors before they've learned to eliminate syntax errors and handle exceptions.
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#9
I know too many... and use too little :/ ...


"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand."
- Kurt Vonnegut (Cat's Cradle)


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#10
I used to know a few, but I only really bother with one since I'm pretty fluent. But it's pretty much obsolete now, it's now evolved into this .net shit that I don't like. I just do it as a hobby really.
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