Am I naive?

[Lonely Philosopher]

I found this forum when typing into google: "I am alone" and "I wish I did not exist." I am in solitude no longer. Nevertheless, I feel alone... ergo sum.
With none do I have to share these following machinations of my idle rationalization; my ersatz labyrinth is suffused with an emptiness capable of swallowing many billions more supergiants than grace all the galaxies of our massive cosmic ocean. None who will understand what I say, though I know not else how to filter perceptions.

My desire to strive for persistence subsides by the hour, leaking back into the subatomic with each strained compression of my diaphragm. Or, perhaps it is more appropriate to say it is culled,
like a chrysanthemum so gently nicked, by the parasitic pathogen that invariably follows from the evolution of intelligence.
Fickle and transient we call ourselves "the social animal." The infection of society, perpetually making jest out of Darwin's moral spheres of consideration. Toying with notions of sociality: to love, a fresia, a friend, family, political territory, patriotism, a gang, a federation, a nation. Nothing more than excuses to destroy and hurt, to rise in empty, hollow rank on the backs of the meek. Seeking a seat at the head of an empty kingdom.

To strive for life out of fear for death, such that we divine apocryphal meaning for the heavy toll of compassion; to revel in ignorance; to feel the vitriolic entitlement I see so violently perpetuated in our inflated masquerade of democracy. Ruled by the bloody and barbed iron gauntlet of what I can only name: "society." Information manipulation and trafficking; sophistry. A game of placating the masses to retain the illusion of power among the few; but the masters of the illusion are not the few. No, it's the husks who tear out the very eyes which define their cosmos, who, with idle gaze, sheepishly avert their attention from the lovecraftian horrors emerging from the depths of humanity. Atrophy... But atrophy is no more than an exerted decay. As nothing truly becomes nothing, decay is no more than a splintering into the fractal of quanta; a reversible process. Is this thought such hapless step into the green fields of naivety?

Reversible, but willing to be reversed? One potential future for humanity is akin to that of the universe: stars continue to redshift and the universe expands infinitely, ripping all matter apart into a perpetual stand alone complex. The lethargic, creeping atrophy of kindness; the descent of society into individualistic disassociation and entitlement. Until we are left with a world populated by broken clones of Jon Irenicus. Until the lonely philosopher is to abscond from his endemic asylum, recalling what it is like to be wounded in his deepest depths. To be reminded of love.

According to Kant, one's yearning for persistence only yields when an external force is exerted upon it. No thing of its own devices wishes to stop existing, yet black tendrils lash and erode. I love who I am passionately. I am content with my actions and habits. I have a bright future in theoretical astrophysics or research into new systems of formal logic. Yet, it all seems so worthless without a good friend to hold in the void of night. When a man is haunted by the pain in the world and the lack of any absolute metaphysics. Is it a pernicious thing to desire to abscond from my loneliness by mooring in this tiny port of this vast cosmic shore with an intellectual equal? A friend who cares as deeply for me as I may for them? Or, should I rather strive to once again be content with loneliness? No... that's wrong; I was never content with loneliness. I was content with solitude. Once I tasted the sweet, or glukospikros, nectar of a friend, specifically: the body and soul-filling warmth of a woman who was my intellectual equal, I understood what it meant to feel loved. Rather, then, should I strive to become content with loneliness (for I am the one thing I can be assured will always travel with me)? I wish to return to that place, to find peace in her face. Such an insignificant moment in a grand world, yet more beautiful and amazing, more wonderful in watching her, hidden in the fabric of time... someone who makes me glad that I exist in this simple minkowski two-space, because astronomers and cosmologists and laypersons for potentially billions of years to come will be able to ponder the creation of the primeval atom, to study super novae, to form complex metaphysical theories, to gaze upon the beauty of a star. But I, as common as any sentient being, am allotted the undeserved opportunity of experiencing... love.

Am I naive to want love so strongly? To abscond from loneliness with another person? I think I could manage to do it alone, but I wish... I want to abscond with someone else; together. I want to wait. I don't desire to be wholly and completely satisfied without love. I am a young man; I have existed for barely twenty-one circumnavigations of Sol. When it comes to desiring love... am I naive?

 

[Runciter]

Am I naive to want love so strongly? To abscond from loneliness with another person? I think I could manage to do it alone, but I wish... I want to abscond with someone else; together. I want to wait. I don't desire to be wholly and completely satisfied without love. I am a young man; I have existed for barely twenty-one circumnavigations of Sol. When it comes to desiring love... am I naive?

I don't think you're naive to want love at all. It's a perfectly instinctive, evolutionary desire. I think you need to work on allowing yourself to be happy alone.

No offense but if that is how you talk in everyday life then you're probably going to be putting a lot of people off. As poetically philosophical as it is, it doesn't make for a very easy read and your actual points seemed to be buried under needless layers of prose. You'll make a good author one day but you should probably try to simplify your communication with people a little.

 

[Lonely Philosopher]

I actually speak with a much more succinct vernacular in the everyday. I have friends whom I can spend time with, but the relationships feel empty, pointless. In my head... my thoughts form as I wrote above. I don't want to change the way I am, because it makes me happy and does no harm to anyone, but I've only found one person who thinks in a similar way to me... such that I don't have to... simplify or vastly alter my thoughts in translation. I know that if I speak as I did in my post I seem alien and insufferable to most. That is why I feel so alone; there are few people like me and fewer whom I can love reciprocally. I do not consider myself to be highly intellectual; I know nothing. Yet, to find someone who is my intellectual match (by this I mean similar; one whom I can debate metaphysics with; one who loves thinking)... The odds seem so astronomically low that it doesn't seem worth the bet.
The pragmatic in me says I should stop hoping and simply let it happen if it will... which has been my stratagem in the past. However, that path seems less and less sufferable as I tread further along it; life seems so devoid of meaning if I have none to share it with. I am no Tesla. I am no Newton. I am no Russell; the beauty of mathematics holds less and less sway on my will to live.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Well, the funny thing about, 'the odds', is that they can be quite surprising.

Of the desire, though... The longing... Lots of people in that boat...

Rare is it that two of the same passion can find each other, share it, and grow together in it. However, of such things, I would say, that your chances are greater if you know who you are and where you are going, want you want to be doing. It's a much more tricky for the undecided in life, from my view anyway.

 

[theraab]

Yet, to find someone who is my intellectual match (by this I mean similar; one whom I can debate metaphysics with; one who loves thinking)... The odds seem so astronomically low that it doesn't seem worth the bet.

Are you looking for someone with whom you can have deep emotional ties, or are you looking for an intellectual match? It's my experience that you can't have both.

---

By the way, if you want love, stop quoting Kant.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I don't agree with telling the lonely to work on being happy alone because it's against nature. Don't try not to need others, it doesn't work. People are hard-wired to connect. That's like putting a chimpanzee in a zoo enclosure by itself and insisting it learn to be happy alone. Every individual who wants love has a God-given right to seek and find it in a healthy, positive way. I don't want to spend the rest of my life living alone in my apartment with only my cats. But I think your desires are unrealistic because you're probably dreaming of finding someone who doesn't exist, your intellectual love-match is a fantasy and it will keep you closed off from people you could be potentially compatible with, people who are smart and have a lot in common with you but don't match your ideal but who you could still have the potential to have a loving, successful relationship with.

What about non-romantic connections with people such as friends, family and even acquaintances? Do you talk to people and make acquaintances and find value in communicating with them? I think that is important because people who don't this are probably the most isolated of all. I personally do find joy in having conversations with the occasional stranger on the bus and value my non-romantic relationships with friends, family and acquaintances, even though I am frequently alone. Because this way, even though the romantic dream lives and is something I desire it is not so much an obsession because at least I do have some connections with others of my human species. I'm alone but not completely. If I was completely alone, I would feel a lot worse.

 

[Runciter]

@2cats
As I've mentioned before, when I say alone in the context of a thread like this I am talking about romantically alone and am not suggesting in any way that anyone should try to be happy in complete isolations. All I am saying is that by allowing yourself to be so unhappy due to a lack of a romantic relationship is putting you in a much worse mental state that will make finding a relationship much harder and will only ultimately end up leaving you feeling more unhappy.

@OP
No one is suggesting that you should compromise on your beliefs. But by saying that the "odds seem so astronomically low," of you finding someone who is an intellectual match for you indicates to me that you either think far too highly of yourself or far too low of women in general. Besides, I have to agree with theraab, emotional connections have nothing to do with peoples opinions or views, having such high expectations of what you want in a partner is just greatly limiting your chances of someone.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

People who are single and want to be in a romantic relationship are going to continue to wish for it regardless of anyone trying to discourage them from thinking about it. That's because people who are in romantic relationships get a constant supply of oxytocin which is a naturally occurring drug the brain produces that makes people feel good and is created by hugging or any kind of physical affection and close, intimate contact with another human being. It's the opposite of cortisol which creates stress. Single people, unless they are close like this with their friends and family tend to get very little oxytocin, thus increasing their desire and craving for it.

Of course there are ways to lessen the intensity of this desire and that is to find distractions, do things that make you happy and feel good about yourself as an individual and nurture your non-romantic relationships. My point is trying to discourage someone from reaching for the cookie will make a person want the cookie more. It's better to just offer a nutritious apple than to take the cookie away or tell that person not to eat it because he or she will anyway. The "be happy alone" phrase is like saying don't eat the cookie.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

People that tell me I should be happy alone simply don't get it. I have been happy alone, for 30 years.

In fact, I didn't get miserable alone until I was 26 years old. Before then, I was content to be single.

If you are lonely, nobody can change that but another person.

 

[Runciter]

People who are single and want to be in a romantic relationship are going to continue to wish for it regardless of anyone trying to discourage them from thinking about it. That's because people who are in romantic relationships get a constant supply of oxytocin which is a naturally occurring drug the brain produces that makes people feel good and is created by hugging or any kind of physical affection and close, intimate contact with another human being. It's the opposite of cortisol which creates stress. Single people, unless they are close like this with their friends and family tend to get very little oxytocin, thus increasing their desire and craving for it.

Of course there are ways to lessen the intensity of this desire and that is to find distractions, do things that make you happy and feel good about yourself as an individual and nurture your non-romantic relationships. My point is trying to discourage someone from reaching for the cookie will make a person want the cookie more. It's better to just offer a nutritious apple than to take the cookie away or tell that person not to eat it because he or she will anyway. The "be happy alone" phrase is like saying don't eat the cookie.

You really need to not eat the cookie.
If you're unable to control your base desired then that is your problem. But to tell people that it is fine to miserable because they're not in a relationship is potentially harmful. No one is suggesting that you shouldn't want a relationship but allowing that desire to make you miserable in the rest of your life makes no sense.

Heroin addicts like heroin too, doesn't make it right for them to shoot up. If you're unable to control your desire for oxytocin to the detriment of your personal well-being then you're going to have a hard time finding someone to be with. You're also going to be dependent on any future partner for your happiness and it isn't fair on them to have that responsibility.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

You're missing her point. We aren't talking about unnatural chemical reactions, like heroin. We are talking about basic biology.

And kudos to you if you can go through your whole life without sex, relationships, or intimacy. You are a better person than me. But even in religion, it says that relationships are necessary. Science argues that those who are unpartnered, die earlier, or suffer from mental illness just because they are alone. It isn't a cookie, it's a whole ******* meal.

 

[Sarah_Lbnz]

Well buddy, you're in luck. I've dated and boinked a couple of philosophers, and I can tell you right now (edit: related to those experiences) I can recognize an emotionally unavailable dude from a mile away. You'll have no problem finding ladies. Have fun.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

^ That makes no sense?

 

[Sarah_Lbnz]

You have to have had a girlfriend to understand. Sorry Muse.

 

[Runciter]

You're missing her point. We aren't talking about unnatural chemical reactions, like heroin. We are talking about basic biology.

And kudos to you if you can go through your whole life without sex, relationships, or intimacy. You are a better person than me. But even in religion, it says that relationships are necessary. Science argues that those who are unpartnered, die earlier, or suffer from mental illness just because they are alone. It isn't a cookie, it's a whole ******* meal.

No, you're missing the point. Chemical reactions are part of basic biology and irrational dependancy to any chemical, whether lab made or natural, is unhealthy.

And no, I can't go my whole life without relationships. But I can understand that by being so desperate for one I am only reducing my chances of finding one. Have you considered that people are more likely to die young when single because they allow themselves to be so miserable and stressed out by it?

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

No, you're missing the point. Chemical reactions are part of basic biology and irrational dependancy to any chemical, whether lab made or natural, is unhealthy.

Observe nature.

In nature, generally speaking, the animals that pair off early live longer. And while gay and bi and asexual differences in reproduction do occur in nature, there is usually some sort of sexual response. Animals seek out other animals, for companionship. And human beings are animals.

Observe the dog that humps another dog. He may physically be prevented from having any babies anymore, but he still has a sexual response. Now, let's take the involuntary celibate; they desire a sexual and romantic relationship, are unable to get one, but their body chemistry still has them have that desire. What you describe is someone who wants to be deaf, so they cut off their ear. It's ludicrous that someone who is sexually healthy, and wants to have something sexual, can just pretend that their body isn't giving them that urge. If that were true, pedophiles and rapists could just ignore their desires, and as we all know, pedophiles cannot be cured.

And as far as cutting off something, even someone who is chemically castrated still has romantic desires. What you describe is something that is both biologically and psychologically IMPOSSIBLE.

And no, I can't go my whole life without relationships. But I can understand that by being so desperate for one I am only reducing my chances of finding one. Have you considered that people are more likely to die young when single because they allow themselves to be so miserable and stressed out by it?

Again, how can you prevent yourself from desiring romantic relationships, when it is part of your biology? Human beings have two purposes: to create, and to die. We create things with our mind, and we create other human beings with our body. And then we return to the earth.

I really should stop trying to debate this crap.

 

[Runciter]

No, you're missing the point. Chemical reactions are part of basic biology and irrational dependancy to any chemical, whether lab made or natural, is unhealthy.

Observe nature.

In nature, generally speaking, the animals that pair off early live longer. And while gay and bi and asexual differences in reproduction do occur in nature, there is usually some sort of sexual response. Animals seek out other animals, for companionship. And human beings are animals.

Observe the dog that humps another dog. He may physically be prevented from having any babies anymore, but he still has a sexual response. Now, let's take the involuntary celibate; they desire a sexual and romantic relationship, are unable to get one, but their body chemistry still has them have that desire. What you describe is someone who wants to be deaf, so they cut off their ear. It's ludicrous that someone who is sexually healthy, and wants to have something sexual, can just pretend that their body isn't giving them that urge. If that were true, pedophiles and rapists could just ignore their desires, and as we all know, pedophiles cannot be cured.

And as far as cutting off something, even someone who is chemically castrated still has romantic desires. What you describe is something that is both biologically and psychologically IMPOSSIBLE.

And no, I can't go my whole life without relationships. But I can understand that by being so desperate for one I am only reducing my chances of finding one. Have you considered that people are more likely to die young when single because they allow themselves to be so miserable and stressed out by it?

Again, how can you prevent yourself from desiring romantic relationships, when it is part of your biology? Human beings have two purposes: to create, and to die. We create things with our mind, and we create other human beings with our body. And then we return to the earth.

I really should stop trying to debate this crap.

If you really think that being happy without being in a relationship is impossible then I pity you. But ultimately you're wrong, because I'm perfectly happy to be single, I have never been so desperate for a relationship that it makes the rest of my life miserable. How do you explain that? I still have the same needs and desires as everyone else I just don't let them dictate my life. I don't allow chemicals dictate how I should feel. Yes I am an animal but I am also a sentient being capable of making up my own ******* mind about how I should live my life.

I really don't understand why you're being so defensive about it, you would think that someone in your position would be happy to accept advice that might help him to improve his life and be in a better position to find love, instead all you seem to be doing is justifying your unhappiness and loneliness.

Compare us, you say you've never had a relationship and you're in your 30's. Well I'm 27 and I've had many. Is it because I have the secret formula for getting into women's pants? No. Is it because I am the most attractive man on Earth that make women wet at the mere sight of me? No. It's because I'm happy, confident in myself and mostly because I don't stink of desperation. I wasn't always this way, I was once miserable too, but I've managed to move on and I'm a better person for it.

If you really don't want to listen to me then fine, carry on with your perpetually-miserable attitude. But lets come back to this thread in ten years time and see who is doing better when it comes to finding love. I've really tried to help you since being here, even defending you against other members. But I can see why they said what they did, it's like talking to a brick wall at times and if you don't start listening to what people are saying then you're never going to grow as a person and move on.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

So the answer is to give up?

I don't want to do that. For one, it limits my ability to be a father. For another, I am perfectly content being alone and having friends and family, but the idea of that for the rest of my life is worrying. It's not something I could imagine doing. I would commit suicide.

 

[Runciter]

So the answer is to give up?

Yes. Give up your defeatist attitude. Give up on the idea that you can't be happy without a woman. Give up on the belief that you're doomed to be unhappy to the end of your days.

If you can manage to take control and responsibility for your own life, you might just find that you can start to enjoy yourself. Who knows, maybe when you least expect it you might meet the woman of your dreams, at least if you're happy with your life you'll be in a much better position to try to make something of it. If you have the stink of desperation and an air of self-deprecation why should you expect any woman to give you a chance? I'm not saying you can't long for and want to be in a loving relationship, that is perfectly natural. But allowing the fact that you don't have that ruin the rest of your life makes no sense whatsoever.

don't want to do that. For one, it limits my ability to be a father. For another, I am perfectly content being alone and having friends and family, but the idea of that for the rest of my life is worrying. It's not something I could imagine doing. I would commit suicide.

You think you're capable of being a father when you can barely manage being single?

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It's worth giving it a shot. I should give up on women for now.