Am I naive?

[Runciter]

It's worth giving it a shot. I should give up on women for now.

And as far as being capable of being a father, 50% of fathers out there are worse off than I am.

You shouldn't "give up," on women, you should just concentrate on yourself for a change.

As for the father statement, I don't know where you're getting those statistics from or what criteria your basing it on so please provide more info.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I'm basing it on how many fathers are abusive or neglectful. Maybe not 50 percent, but so many bad parents out there. I would do a better job, because I actually would want children.

And I'm not giving up on women. I'm giving up on the idea of obsessing over it.

 

[Runciter]

I'm basing it on how many fathers are abusive or neglectful. Maybe not 50 percent, but so many bad parents out there. I would do a better job, because I actually would want children.

I really don't think either of us are in a position to say how good we might be as parents. I would imagine that not many people set out to be abusive parents but until we go through the process of having a child we're in no position to speculate. Doing so is likely to just piss off the people who have children on this forum.

And I'm not giving up on women. I'm giving up on the idea of obsessing over it.

Good, you should find something healthy to obsesses over, something that provides pleasure and satisfaction to your life without creating massive expectations for yourself. It's not going to be easy, you'll still fall into the same trap from time to time but you just need to be conscious of it and have the will power to pull yourself together.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I'm doing my best to carry myself as a "strong" person who doesn't "need" anyone to the rest of the world so I avoid coming across as "needy" or "desperate" and do whatever I can to love myself and keep myself occupied when I am alone. Regardless, this does not change how I feel, living alone and feeling the emptiness every day. When I get home I have to either turn on the TV, the radio, play music, talk on the phone or go on the internet because the quietness here is simply unbearable and the urge to hug someone is impossible for me to fight. This is an innate human need and touch deprivation over long periods of time is not a good thing. We all want to love and be loved regardless of whether we satisfy this through friends, family or through a romantic relationship. People tend to desire romantic relationships when they're especially alone. When I was visiting family in Northern California for christmas I didn't feel that need because I was surrounded by family. Back here is San Diego, I'm lonely because I am alone, I live alone. Add to the fact that I've only been living alone for 2 years and prior to this I was in a relationship and had someone living with me for 11 years. That's a huge difference. People can give advice with the best intentions but sometimes someone's advice doesn't work for everyone and being harshly judged for it doesn't make it any better. People who are lonely because they feel the need to connect should seek to connect but do so in a healthy, positive way to avoid seeming "needy" or putting people off as opposed to denying their basic human needs. Sorry Runciter, I know you mean well and your intentions are good but your advice does not work for me and I will never stop hoping and wishing until I find what I'm looking for. Does that mean I'm going to latch on to anyone and be a parasite? No way! I have very high standards and I'm very choosey about who I'm going to get involved with romantically. Most of the time I'm just trying to make friends or do whatever I can to feel less alone.

I think I'll end my participation in this thread with I think I'll settle for hugging pillows and cats for now until I find something more substantial to cuddle with and good luck to the OP for finding what you're looking for but I do think you need to be more realistic. Good luck finding happiness on your own in the meantime as well. My words here also do not imply that people should not try to find happiness on their own, just that there is only so much satisfaction a person can obtain while being alone.

 

[Runciter]

@2cats
I don't want it to seem as if my opinion is the bottom line here, I respect everyones right to do what they want with their own life even to the point of suicide, it really isn't my place to tell anyone how to live.

The only reason I am so insistent on this topic is because I wouldn't want someone reading a thread like this and thinking that there is no hope of happiness in their life unless they are in a relationship, which is simply not true. Considering there are over 150 guests browsing this forum at the moment, I feel its important that they can take something positive from this. All I'm trying to do is give people advice, not to tell them how to live their life, but to let them know they have the capacity of happiness.

I hope you find some happiness somewhere along the line, I know how you feel because I'm in a similar situation. I never meant to give the impression that you should stop hoping to find someone, nor do I think you should compromise on your standards.

I respect your views and don't want to interfere with your life. I want to let you know that if we disagree on the topic in the future, it is only so I can put my opinion out there for other people to see so they can make their own mind up. I'm not trying to start some kind of personal vendetta against you or anything so please, don't take anything I say personally.

 

[Lonely Philosopher]

@Runciter, first off, thank you very much for engaging in this dialectic. I truly appreciate the time you've taken out of your day to speak with me. ^_^ I'm going to reply to what I take as the overall point of your responses. I'm not sad, I'm happy; content with myself and my place in the world. What I feel is a lack of purpose without shared interaction. I enjoy myself every day, I take pleasure in little things, smiles, laughter. Mayhaps my happiness is enough reason to live, but I find it hard to convince myself of such. I don't have a low opinion of women, not anymore than of men. Further, I don't want someone "as smart as me," that seems a stagnant pursuit; I find intelligence to hardly be a quantifiable thing beyond a very rough relational comparison of specific knowledge. I want someone who is a match to my intellect. A compliment to it. In fact, the one person whom I mentioned prior is a woman. She has different passions than me, she loves biology (specifically evolution and epigenetics) but she's interested in physics and philosophy. We are both interested in thinking and learning. My standards may be high, but I've been in relationships before that were... healthy, fun, good, but simply not fulfilling. I've also had many opportunities to engage in physically satisfying relationships that lacked the mental. That has very little appeal to me. I've always warned myself against taking the mental stance of "that one thing." "If I have that one thing everything will be okay!" I don't think that's the case with a relationship.

As for what I expect out of a relationship: I want a companion with whom I can share my experiences; to have them be interested in and understand me. There is something different about laying in bed at night with a person like that; with someone who understands who you are on a deep and intimate level. My standards are not so very rigorous; I care not what salary she makes, what career she wants (within reason; excluding serial killer, etc.) or -what- her specific passions are. I care very little about appearance or intricacies; very little bothers me. I'm interested almost everything (philosopher; a lover of knowledge). One of my ex's was a motivational speaker for teenage girls in highschools around the states. I accompanied her to her talks and learned a great deal about how advertisement impacts young women, and so forth. I was interested in learning about what she loves and at the same time learning about her. However, while she tried to take interest in my passions, she cared very little for them and that made sharing the fun things I thought about very droll. As if she was partaking in a chore to endure me.

I've considered the option of having an emotional bond with someone and an intellectual bond with another, but for me the former seems to follow from the latter. I have a hard time connecting emotionally to people if I cannot connect intellectually. I thoroughly enjoy physically satisfying and being satisfied by another person, connecting on a primal level. But the connection feels hollow if I do not deeply understand who they are and vice versa.

@Sarah I've been told that I come off as charismatic, confident, and kind. My face is average (beard is superb as any good philosopher), my body is of a physically active and healthy young man. I have an uncanny knack for drawing people to me wherever I go. Yet, these relationships tend to develop into a one sided scenario: they become interested with my apparent traits but don't delve deeper, I am not so interested in apparent traits but I delve deeply into their self and learn about who they are. I enjoy this; uncovering the story of a person, and I enjoy listening and learning, but without reciprocity it does not, anecdotally, make for a satisfying relationship. Boinking people is great fun, but I feel so much more satisfaction when simply holding someone whom I connect to deeply.

@Alonewith2cats, On the note of being realistic; that is exactly my point. If it is unrealistic to desire to find someone who is interested in me and is capable of truly, deeply understanding me then I find a distinct lack of motivation to perpetuate my life.

 

[Runciter]

@LP

I'm hardly even sure why you're here. Now that you're speaking in ordinary English, it is clear that your views and opinions all seem extremely healthy. We seem to share a lot in common, none of the superficial stuff matters to me either and a woman that can hold my attention into the early hours of the morning while we put off going to bed for as long as possible is my ideal mate.

I've also had my fair share of women that seem to be drawn to me for unknown reasons. I really don't know why, perhaps it is the beards , but they seldom prove to offer more than just physical intimacy and I tend to avoid these relationships due to an inability to enjoy sex with people I don't have strong feelings for.

So no, I still wouldn't describe you as naive. If anything, optimistic but that can only be a good thing. I think you should just continue they way you are going and I'm sure that you will find someone to fall in love with, just as I believe it will happen for me.

 

[Lonely Philosopher]

Maybe you are right. I may have simply had a momentary lapse caused by the development of an intimate relationship with a beautiful woman, only two months my junior, which is being strangulated by a synthetic noose. I am, because of moral imperative, left with no option but to let the relationship wither and ultimately let go. Despite the fact that she is an intellectual match; despite the fact that we can stay up all night talking about parthenogenesis and the origin of chromatophores.

You've provided an interesting distraction from my slump; I've been contemplating the fate of Mr. Runciter since your first post. A singular idea coursed through my mind as my fingers danced across the ivory this morning after work: the power of Ubik is directly correlated to one's Faith in Ubik's power. I've never considered myself to be a man of faith, but the more I contemplate (meta)physics, the more I find faith is necessary for any affirmation whatsoever.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

The optimist in me says, if you keep looking, you just might find her. And heck, if you don't find her, your bound to have had an interesting journey along the way.

 

[Runciter]

Maybe you are right. I may have simply had a momentary lapse caused by the development of an intimate relationship with a beautiful woman, only two months my junior, which is being strangulated by a synthetic noose. I am, because of moral imperative, left with no option but to let the relationship wither and ultimately let go. Despite the fact that she is an intellectual match; despite the fact that we can stay up all night talking about parthenogenesis and the origin of chromatophores.

I'm in a similar situation myself. Hold on to something I treasure but compromise on my beliefs. Or let go and deal with the potential consequences. I don't think I'm ready to compromise on my beliefs even though I know my decision may ultimately send me down a path that is bleak in comparison. I wonder if I'll look back on it as a mistake some day. Sometimes the best path is the hardest. But sometimes I guess you just can't tell which path is which.

You've provided an interesting distraction from my slump; I've been contemplating the fate of Mr. Runciter since your first post. A singular idea coursed through my mind as my fingers danced across the ivory this morning after work: the power of Ubik is directly correlated to one's Faith in Ubik's power. I've never considered myself to be a man of faith, but the more I contemplate (meta)physics, the more I find faith is necessary for any affirmation whatsoever.

I've never considered myself a man of faith either, I've always been completely agnostic. But recently I've realized that faith doesn't have to involve spirituality and I've found my views and opinions shifting drastically. Ubik has always served to remind me that what we all experience is our own unique, individual reality. We have no benchmark to compare it to because it is impossible to experience anything from someone else's perspective. What I see as green may well be what everyone else sees as blue, but if I can't have faith in myself then everything breaks down and I can't consider anything to be real. So I choose to have faith in myself and I refuse to compare myself to the standards set by society. Since then I've been able to be at peace with myself much more.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

@2cats
I don't want it to seem as if my opinion is the bottom line here, I respect everyones right to do what they want with their own life even to the point of suicide, it really isn't my place to tell anyone how to live.

The only reason I am so insistent on this topic is because I wouldn't want someone reading a thread like this and thinking that there is no hope of happiness in their life unless they are in a relationship, which is simply not true. Considering there are over 150 guests browsing this forum at the moment, I feel its important that they can take something positive from this. All I'm trying to do is give people advice, not to tell them how to live their life, but to let them know they have the capacity of happiness.

I hope you find some happiness somewhere along the line, I know how you feel because I'm in a similar situation. I never meant to give the impression that you should stop hoping to find someone, nor do I think you should compromise on your standards.

I respect your views and don't want to interfere with your life. I want to let you know that if we disagree on the topic in the future, it is only so I can put my opinion out there for other people to see so they can make their own mind up. I'm not trying to start some kind of personal vendetta against you or anything so please, don't take anything I say personally.

It's fine. One of the advantages of forums like this is for the participants to post their own perspectives so people reading them can view different perspectives and decide for themselves. Of course the right thing to do in a case of debates and disagreements is to agree to disagree. I'm actually somewhere in the middle which means I don't totally disagree with you but I don't agree with you either, on some things I disagree more than others, it's complicated and depends on what is being said.

---

@Alonewith2cats, On the note of being realistic; that is exactly my point. If it is unrealistic to desire to find someone who is interested in me and is capable of truly, deeply understanding me then I find a distinct lack of motivation to perpetuate my life.

What if you found someone who is interested in you and wants to understand you and understands parts of you but doesn't fully understand all the details of your complex mind? Would it be unrealistic of you to want something better than that? Nobody is that perfect. Maybe she would want you to understand her on the same level too.

Sad that you would lack motivation to perpetuate your life for failure to find someone who perhaps doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that you can't find someone intelligent who you would have a lot in common with.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

nevermind

 

[Lonely Philosopher]

What if you found someone who is interested in you and wants to understand you and understands parts of you but doesn't fully understand all the details of your complex mind? Would it be unrealistic of you to want something better than that? Nobody is that perfect. Maybe she would want you to understand her on the same level too.

Sad that you would lack motivation to perpetuate your life for failure to find someone who perhaps doesn't exist. That doesn't mean that you can't find someone intelligent who you would have a lot in common with.

I don't expect anyone to be some idealized form of perfection; it's such a silly word. I don't understand all the details of the human mind, anyone elses or my own, nor do I expect that anyone does. In the case of my hypothetical girlfriend I wouldn't expect her to know everything about me, nor me about her. That's the beauty of communication and sharing; we would learn new things about eachother every day, because we, as transient beings, are always in a state of change and growth. I want someone who is interested in me and at the same time has a desire to understand the world with me, together. It's not: I need you to understand me. It's: I want you to try and understand the world -with- me. A companion. I don't need someone with the same ideals or exact ethical system; I find a relationship becomes quite boring without debates and differences of opinion. Another rare quality: the ability to debate without feeling bad about ones self or position, to change one's view if presented with adequate evidence... I suppose intellectual confidence may be a good term. For all I care, she could believe the universe was created by Ooblek, so long as she had reasoned and thought out arguments for why and didn't mind me questioning them.

I know that people akin to what I desire exist. I've met one, I -am- one. (Not that I'd want to date myself, unless I were cloned at birth and had different life experiences. And made a woman. But I am the general -type- of person who I'm looking for.) It's interesting to me that you list "have a lot in common with" as a qualia for a good mate; it's true that shared interests can be fun (I wouldn't mind if she loved astronomy, philosophy, video games and anime), but the majority of my potential mate's personality can be completely different from mine. I love learning new things, discovering different facets of life, trying out new events. I had one friend who was super into ballroom dancing. I can't dance to save my life and I was way out of my comfort zone, but I went and danced with her every other saturday. Eventually I got better at it, but I always enjoyed myself. There are a small set of base qualities that I'm interested in, they simply seem exceedingly rare.

 

[Runciter]

(Not that I'd want to date myself, unless I were cloned at birth and had different life experiences. And made a woman. But I am the general -type- of person who I'm looking for.)

That sounds like a whole new level of insect.