Bitter atheist

[neo651]

Once upon a time I was a deeply spiritual person. In my teen years I began to doubt my faith, though. I realized one day that I only believed in God because I was afraid of what would happen if I didn't and because I'd never really thought about it for myself. I had always just believed what I was told. That led me down a path that ended in me becoming atheist.

Now I find that I have this latent deep seeded feeling that the world has an underlying order and an overall purpose. But I've reached the conclusion that it does not.

So I find that whenever there is something in the world or in my life that isn't fair or doesn't make sense or seems pointless I get angry because I FEEL as if this inconsistent with how the world works. What I know in my mind though is that this is precisely how the world works. But I get angrier still because I have that feeling that there's a path and a purpose for us all when I don't actually believe that's true.

I can't shake this feeling and so it turns me into the bitter angry atheist that gets in the face of anybody who has faith and especially with those for which it brings happiness.

I don't know how to let go of my preconceived notions of how the world should work and just make peace with the way it is. I don't know how to not direct my anger at people who just happened to come to different conclusions than I have and found happiness through it. And most of all I don't know how to simply let go of that anger in the first place.

 

[Sci-Fi]

I wish I could help you, I've doubted my own faith a few times. I think what brings me back to it is similar to what you mentioned in the beginning, the fear of what would happen if I didn't. But I'm satisfied in believing what I believe even if things haven't gone the way I have hoped. I don't blame God I blame myself.

I too believe that we all have a purpose in life, no matter how small it may be. The world is chaotic, that's just how it is because there are so many different views of the world out there. Some want to force others into change who aren't ready for it, just because it's not what they believe or how they see the world. It's screwed up.

I dunno, I guess if we all just focus on ourselves and those around us and care about that is all that should matter. Why worry about the world and how messed up it is. There's not much we can do about it until our so called "leaders" learn to work with each other instead of forcing their ideals down each others throats. Different parts of the world work differently, we have to learn to respect that. If we all learn to do that maybe the world won't seem so chaotic/inconsistent.

It sounds like you need to do some soul searching and figure out what exactly it is you (want to) believe in. Where is it that you feel yourself drawn to believe and what makes you happy in life. Don't worry about how messed up the way the world works is, worry about your own little world and what your life revolves around.

 

[VanillaCreme]

If you believe in God, there shouldn't be a fear of him, imo. Fear is not love.

 

[Callie]

Some religions/denominations/clergymen/etc teach you that God IS to be feared.

 

[VanillaCreme]

True Callie, and I disagree with those teachings. I know a lot of people are taught to fear his wrath, but personally, I don't. I've done nothing wrong to receive any from him, and even if someone has, it's forgiven.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Some religions/denominations/clergymen/etc teach you that God IS to be feared.

Yeah, then those same religions will teach you that God is forgiving and understanding like Vanilla said.

There was a scene in a Simpsons episode where Homer has this moving picture of God, I don't remember what the images were but they went along with what Homer kept saying as he moved the picture.

"Vengeful God, Loving God, Vengeful God, Loving God"...etc

We are taught to fear his wrath yet also taught he is forgiving and loving.

:club:

 

[Masson]

Have you thought of changing the way you see God ? I'm a christian but I have to say and sorry for anyone who is religious and also christian here that this religion is the single most biggest pile of crap invented by humanity. There are so many wrong things about it that I can't even start to say them. I'm not a religious person because religion is something invented by man and not God made to control people. However I believe and have faith in God and from my beliefs and everything I read and witnessed God is not somebody ( the big old guy dresses in white with a big beard that watches over everything ) , God is everything , its the essence of the universe.So I'm just saying try finding a different way of seeing God and you might be surprised of what you find out and renew your faith in him.
Also don't let go of your notions , its good to have a different way of seeing things than go with the band-wagon.

 

[Limlim]

I think the key is to celebrate our lack of purpose and see it as a good thing. It means that anything can be possible, at least in the sense that no design of fate was made expressly to hold you back. I'll admit that for me a sense of karma was harder to give up than the belief in Yahweh. I always had the nagging feeling that I had to be good because good things happened to good people and bad to bad, then felt all screwed up when presented evidence that it wasn't the case for all things.

But then I realized that not only did it open a world of unlimited possibilities, but that any act of good or kindness that I performed was because *I* wanted to and not because I felt I would receive some immediate or latter reward for it. The feeling I was having wasn't a lingering belief that good things happen to good people, but my own sense of right and wrong along with the ideology that that is how it should be and that I was going to make any effort I felt was right to make it that way. To me a person who does the right thing for no other reason than because he / she wants to and because its the way he wants the world to be without any promises or deity watching, is much better than a person who does so because of fear or love of God.

Lastly don't get angry at the people who have faith. It is necessary for many people because they cannot cope with the idea that there are no gods loving them, or that their life of suffering will yield reward in the end, or even that there is something else to existence after they die. The day will come when humanity eventually will grow away from the need for spirituality, but it will be a slow process that comes naturally and can't be forced. Everyone has several beliefs on how things should be from everything to economics, politics, globalization down to how we should dress and what we should eat. Spirituality is just 1 extra thing on the list that they subscribe to.

Of the 1001 gods you don't believe in, your friends don't believe in 1000 of them. It really doesn't make you all that different. Relax and enjoy your life.

 

[A new life]

I'm not religious.
And I promise I'm not picking a fight.
But where do athiests think we came from?

The mystery of the ages.
Again, not trying to cause a problem.

 

[Limlim]

Generally most of us go for the science route, big bang along with evolution and life spawning from RNA causing inorganic matter to become organic protein.

To a deeper "what caused the big bang then?" question, at least from my point of view I just say that I don't know. There's no shame in knowing that you don't know, or even finding you're wrong in the future. That's the great part about science. When it's proved wrong it goes "oops! we were wrong! Here's how we think it works now." Instead of trying to mold or reword reality with what was originally hypothesized.

But of course, another thing about atheists is that the only thing we have in common is that we don't believe in any gods. So I don't speak for the others with regards to where I think we come from.

 

[A new life]

I have a friend who is an atheist
His answer is " We just don't know"
Which is more acceptable to me
Than those who swear by something they cannot prove .

 

[VanillaCreme]

Thing is, you don't have to prove what you believe in to anyone else. Everyone can believe in what they want to, no matter if it's ridiculous to others or not.

 

[yesm]

Before and if you even read the rest of this... it sounds like your "thoughts" drive you to anger, because you can not create a logical explanation that is satisfactory. I've often been in the same place many many times myself... it is a peculiar and interesting way to suffer... a suffering that is ultimately "self-caused"... the only way i've known to relieve the stress of my thoughts for a long time was to smoke pot... and very recently... meditate... which if practiced enough can slow down and empty your mind of thoughts completely... you would be suprised at how many people in this world would prefer to suffer rather than be patient and do a little work to find peace of mind... i'm still learning myself... that being said....

It doesn't matter what anyone believes in... they are still going to die anyway...

The universe doesn't make sense and never will because nobody can ever explain how it came to be...

so how in an existance that is illogical can you expect logic and reason to triumph over that which is mere perception of reality?

logic which is your thoughts... is merely a tool like hands or feet... that evolved out of neccissity for survival...

if you believe in god your right... and your heart will still beat and you will die...
if you don't believe in god your right... your heart will still beat and you will die too...
if you believe you can fly and jump off a building cuz you took acid... you are right... and then you realize you were wrong and die anyway...

I don't care for atheism not because it doesn't believe in God, but generally because it is rude...

if a kid believes in santa clause... what does that mean?

that means for them there is a special day of every year where if they are good they will be rewarded...

this is a good belief. why is it good? it is good because it inspires children with parents who are financially secure to be "good" and gives them something magical and wonderful to look forward to and enrich their life...

so being an atheist and being pissed off at people who believe in god...

what i'm hearing from you "metaphorically" is that you used to believe in "santa"... one day you "figured it out" and realized santa didn't really exist... the magic is gone (magic being the ignorance)... so now that it is gone you feel frustrated with others who have not come to the same realization with you...

rejoice in your discovery... and let your knowledge and logic be yours and for those who seek it from you...

i still make the mistake of trying to have people see things my way... it is human nature to want to share our experience...

i still struggle with talking to my sister... god and jesus gave her life new meaning... she was able to dissolve and continues to dissolve many fears daily by taking refuge in the comfort that even though she is a sinner... god forgives her... and if she leads a good life, she will be rewarded in heaven with a room in god's mansion...

because this works for her she tries to share this way... she tries to tell me to go to church... tries to make me see things her way... and gets frustrated and upset and argues with me about it when i declare that her way is not my way...

have compassion for the children who still get presents from santa... let them be... and avoid them when neccessary to protect yourself...

but don't be an atheist just because you don't believe in god...

if your idea of god was jesus incarnate who died and was ressurected and sits on a thrown in heaven... my answer to you is i do not believe in god...

if your idea of god is a number that you can not count to... the stars... gravity... and the life force of a tree...

then yes i believe in god...

life is to short to give a crap about what "you are"...

"you" doesn't exist....

"you" will die...

Even in buddhism there are some who view the buddha as agod and worship him so... and others who have discovered in much the same way what you have and have chosen the path of zen buddhism instead...

it's kind of like math... if your bad at it... you pay some one to do your taxes for you... if your not... you do them yourself

So if "you" "are" an atheist... GREAT, but have compassion for those who arn't... for there are plenty of people who worship higher powers yet lack the very simple compassion that of whom they worship devoted their lives to teaching us about...

be confident and rejoice in what you are not, so you can be happy about what you are, and learn to allow others to be happy with what they are while protecting yourself instead of seeking to do battle and conquer minds...

I'm still learning this myself and good luck to you.

and as far as thinking there is a purpose to all things and an order...

you are made of energy, matter, and your existence is governed by the laws of the physics of this universe. none of which owes anybody anything... energy, matter, and physics are not people. they do not care if some one gets raped or murdered. They don't care if a bunny gets hit by a car. they dont' care if some one falls in love, and gets what they want out of life, and is successful and loved. energy, matter, and physics only care about making sure your feet stay on the ground and that you can't breathe in space and that your heart beats. that the cells in your brain can use energy and matter governed by the laws of physics so that you can form thoughts based on triggered memmories from past audio perceptions... energy, matter, and physics don't know what fair is. they don't know what logic is. what reason is. what purpose and order are.

the only purpose you have in life... is to make more of yourself... or to pass on knowledge.

the purpose of your physical body is self replicate...you were born to have sex and create children or die and not be fit enough to survive

the purpose of your spirit is to self replicate...it was born from the knowledge passed on by others or discovered by you and exists to be passed on or die with you

Everything else is pretty much up to you. Try not to waste what precious little time you have on being angry because your brain isn't big enough to fit the world in it and make sense of everything. Cuz eventually one day you'll be on your death bed and things still won't make sense and all you'll have to comfort you is the memmories you have left to sift through before you don't even have memmories or a self to do or be anything with anymore....

 

[SofiasMami]

Oh, bummer. How sad to see "bitter" or "rude" with "atheist". I'm an atheist and quite happy and normal. I don't think god created man, I think that man created god. Christopher Hitchens has written some interesting, thought-provoking stuff on religion and he wrote that if it weren't for humans' fear of death and tendency to wishful thinking, religion wouldn't exist. So religion isn't going away anytime soon. Many also believe that if it weren't for religion, we humans would just run buck-wild and live immorally and commit all kinds of evil acts.
Nope. I live a very straight and narrow life, you could even call me a boring, middle-class suburbanite (but please don't ). Yet my belief that there's no god doesn't cause me to do bad things. I have a moral compass and it's not led around on a leash by the thought that I will be punished by an unseen being or by "karma" if I do wrong.
An interesting thread, though.

Teresa

 

[Syber Tiger]

Some religions/denominations/clergymen/etc teach you that God IS to be feared.

like?

as you all know i am a spiritual satanist...
and we dont fear jesus(if that the god u talk about)

i dont know if theres othre religion that scared of him...

 

[Limlim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_God_(religion)

Most Christian religions fear god. But if you read the article you'll see that in this context "fear" is more to be in awe of rather than outright be afraid of.

 

[IgnoredOne]

If there is no God, become one yourself. Strive to have some influence to make someone's life better and restore some of the order that this world badly needs.

 

[Dandelion Girl]

Once upon a time I was a deeply spiritual person. In my teen years I began to doubt my faith, though. I realized one day that I only believed in God because I was afraid of what would happen if I didn't and because I'd never really thought about it for myself. I had always just believed what I was told. That led me down a path that ended in me becoming atheist.

Now I find that I have this latent deep seeded feeling that the world has an underlying order and an overall purpose. But I've reached the conclusion that it does not.

So I find that whenever there is something in the world or in my life that isn't fair or doesn't make sense or seems pointless I get angry because I FEEL as if this inconsistent with how the world works. What I know in my mind though is that this is precisely how the world works. But I get angrier still because I have that feeling that there's a path and a purpose for us all when I don't actually believe that's true.

I can't shake this feeling and so it turns me into the bitter angry atheist that gets in the face of anybody who has faith and especially with those for which it brings happiness.

I don't know how to let go of my preconceived notions of how the world should work and just make peace with the way it is. I don't know how to not direct my anger at people who just happened to come to different conclusions than I have and found happiness through it. And most of all I don't know how to simply let go of that anger in the first place.

Sometimes, you just have to let go of all what you thought should be, how the world should work, etc. Because only then, life gets a lot easier.

At one point, I felt this way too. Now I don't. I learned how to let go of myself. I learned to put down what I thought was the best, was great, was all about because I thought about it. I just put it all down and accepted God and His plans.

That doesn't mean this works for everyone, but it's a step. You'll just have to not be angry and turn your clock a different direction. Wonder why those people who have faith are happy instead of being bitter about it. Why do you feel so bitter about it? Answer that and then let it all go. It's going to be a hard step, but you have to let it go bit by bit.

And no, God doesn't want you to believe in Him just because you're afraid or don't have all the answers in the world at the moment. He just wants to love you because you're his child, his prince. He made you right from the start. You're a very important person to Him. Yeah, this world isn't all that good. It's not idealistic or wonderful as it should have been. It went far from it.

For me, I guess that's what faith is for. Faith, hope, love. They're all there for a reason. You're meant to grow as a person in these three qualities and not fall away to anger and bitterness. In faith, you have a reason to look beyond the impossible and hold on to hope. In hope, you have the reason to grow and mature in spirit, and rejoice in the things that could never have been rejoiced before. And then, in love, you're able to love. You'll be able to forgive when it seems like you can't, and you'll be able to be patient when the world isn't.

Where does this source of anger come from? What does it feel like? Where did it all start? You can't walk around with this ball of negative energy. It's damaging your soul.

Even if you feel this way right now, God still believes in you. All things are possible in God. There's so much potential in you, so many good things. You are made for greater things. You can do all things in God's plans for you. Just hang in there!

And no, don't become 'God' yourself. That's actually Satan's way of tricking you, just like he did with Eve in the first place. Eve wanted all that power like God, and she got none. She was fooled by Satan, and Satan rejoiced in that. So don't... it's a path of destruction. Those who don't know God in the first place choose this path. I did once upon a time...

Many blessings and love to you. I can only hope for good things for you...

 

[IgnoredOne]

And no, don't become 'God' yourself. That's actually Satan's way of tricking you, just like he did with Eve in the first place. Eve wanted all that power like God, and she got none. She was fooled by Satan, and Satan rejoiced in that. So don't... it's a path of destruction. Those who don't know God in the first place choose this path. I did once upon a time...

The source material should be considered, as well as religion's general effect as a control device for the population(its historical employment as a method of control can hardly be contested). And what is to say that we, as human beings, cannot accumulate authority and ability to influence ourselves, others and the world? Does Pax Romana not bring stability and progress to humanity? Much has been said of central statist power and its downsides, but it has also given us electricity, transportation, and inexpensive food.

A parable can be valuable, but so is logic. Furthermore, it could be argued that Eve received exactly what she sought for: knowledge of good and evil, so that her eyes would be opened. It might not be exactly in the spirit of what she wanted, but contractually, the lettering fits.

At any rate, I believe the notion of personal responsibility and advancement is still extremely valid. Don't wait for the world to make sense. Reach out, and help it make sense. There's no reason for us not to act, no reason for anyone not to begin to work positively for an outcome that is good in his or her eyes.

 

[flaneur]

Oh, bummer. How sad to see "bitter" or "rude" with "atheist". I'm an atheist and quite happy and normal. I don't think god created man, I think that man created god. Christopher Hitchens has written some interesting, thought-provoking stuff on religion and he wrote that if it weren't for humans' fear of death and tendency to wishful thinking, religion wouldn't exist. So religion isn't going away anytime soon. Many also believe that if it weren't for religion, we humans would just run buck-wild and live immorally and commit all kinds of evil acts.
Nope. I live a very straight and narrow life, you could even call me a boring, middle-class suburbanite (but please don't ). Yet my belief that there's no god doesn't cause me to do bad things. I have a moral compass and it's not led around on a leash by the thought that I will be punished by an unseen being or by "karma" if I do wrong.
An interesting thread, though.

Teresa

This.

Hitchens is mostly quoting Freud, but I agree. There's also nothing like hearing about how atheists are immoral when less than 1% of the prison population is atheist.