Selfish to have children?

[mrsme]

This is something i have been thinking about for quite a while now and i have come to a conclusion that it is incredibly selfish to have children, first off there is no absolute guarantee that your child will grow up to be happy and find their place in this world so why put them in it?

Why am i here?, So my parents could have something to do? For my brother? Just WHY! I wanna know why i am in this awful world, my life for the past six years have been so awful and hard, I've been depressed on and off, lost all of my friends, gain weight, and no help.. ok sure doctors come and go and they try but nothing nothing no medicine no nothing to give me any peace or feelings of belonging.

I really think people who have kids don't think about them growing up, how awful it can be and my parents just seem so sick of me and in the end it's all their fault that i am even here, You know?

 

[Callie]

There's been threads like this one before.

It's not the parents fault the child is unhappy. They do the best they can to raise you, for the most part (yes there are exceptions), everything else is up to you. Your life is YOUR life, it's not the parents fault that you aren't happy, that's on you. If you don't like your life, change it, fix it, do what you have to do to get where you want to be in life and stop blaming other people.

 

[annik]

Yeah sorry this just sounds like the teenage "why was I born" "I didn't ask to be born" stuff. Hopefully you'll grow out of it.

I also agree with what Callie said, again.

 

[mrsme]

There's been threads like this one before.

It's not the parents fault the child is unhappy. They do the best they can to raise you, for the most part (yes there are exceptions), everything else is up to you. Your life is YOUR life, it's not the parents fault that you aren't happy, that's on you. If you don't like your life, change it, fix it, do what you have to do to get where you want to be in life and stop blaming other people.

Well i was asking why people have children? Like it is your responsibility as a parent to make sure your child is glad is it not? Why even bother having them.

 

[Callie]

Being as I have TWO children....
The only thing I can do is raise my kids the best I can, give them what they need and love them. Beyond that, it's on THEM what they choose to do with their life. I could do the best job I am capable of, but they could still turn into criminals. They could become filthy rich working on Wall Street or whatever. It's on THEM, not the parents.
I hope my kids grow up to be whatever they want to be and are happy doing it, but I can't force them to be happy.... no one can, but them.

If you choose to not have children because you think people like me are selfish, that's on you, just like it's on you if you aren't happy. Don't blame the parents.

---

Here ya go....
http://www.alonelylife.com/thread-selfish-humans

 

[Thrasymachus]

A startling, obvious, but palpable conclusion is that most parents have no idea what they are doing. Rather than being capable, they are merely people who had sex and through planning or perhaps even indecision, they simply come into the situation of "having kids". This does not however, mean they know what they are doing, because they don't. I know my mom didn't know what she was doing, and she was raised in a better and more connected way than modern American generations. If you observe people they just go through the false notion of dating, but what is that anyway? Going on dates is just sharing consumption with someone of the opposite sex: eating out together, going to the movies together, etc. That is not something deep to have in common, it is shallow you cannot build strong bonds by sharing consumption with another person. They also tend to believe in the fake metaphysical concept of love. So they think they fell in love because they are socially conditioned to, but really they have only fake and shallow bonds together. Most young American couples will not even cook a real meal for each other, unless cooking is a hobby for them, because that is what it is reduced to: hobby or the only recourse of poverty. Eventually the illusion ends as all must and since the past expectations are way too low compared to the current threshold of biter reality, they most often will split. When you do this after kids, these unthinking people make them suffer for their mistakes, because kids from such families tend to be less happy, less trusting, feel inadequate and are everywhere disadvantaged in life compared to those with both parents together in a healthy relationship.

So having kids is pretty selfish especially if you raise them in the culturally patterned way: which is to just teach them to that they should be a consumer and producer of goods/services as the modus operandi of their life. Another cogent observation you can make is that kids don't go outside any longer, in large part because American society is judged too unsafe for kids to roam freely as in the past. This society is really a total crap-hole, worse than dystopia, but most are sleeping. Bringing kids into this epoch means they will have to be shallow and fake to fit in or alienated forever. There ain't no in-between.

 

[Callie]

Dude, you seem to have a great disrespect for people in general. You forgot to mention that people die as well, OMG!!!! LIFE AIN"T ******* PERFECT!
You sit there and you cause arguments on the self righteous bullshit that spews from you mouth and act like you know everything and are better than everyone else. Might I remind you that people ******* make mistakes. People fresia up, not everything works out, but that doesn't mean that just because both parents aren't in the household that the children are messed and that the parents are selfish.

No, my husband and I are NOT together anymore, but my children are loved by BOTH of us and they have everything they need. Get the fresia off your high horse and stop with the self righteous bullshit. You do NOT know everything and quite frankly reading what you write disgusts me most of the time.

 

[S t r a y]

OPs views are actually very similar to mine. I think it is cruel to bring childen here.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Callie, love is a fake metaphysical concept that most cannot even explain. My mom told me she loved me all the time growing up, still as I said, like most parents she had no idea what she was doing. People don't know what they are doing in life, they are only taught to be obedient to external institutions and orders in school, how to make and spend money. We don't have any cultural, familial or institutional framework to emphasize anything besides this, so other than that people don't know what they are doing. All parents say they want their kids to have it better than them, but if you actually examine, what they mean is that they want their kids to have MATERIALLY better circumstances than them. This leads to every generation HAVING A WORSE LIFE, than their parents, because every new generation scarified so many human factors to just throw more gifts, money, toys, outings of consumption with their children. This teaches them to be more greedy, self-centered and selfish than the previous generation, etc., etc.

I could go on and on but that should be enough. This forum is about loneliness, every new generation will tend to be more lonely than the other. Kids used to roam freely playing the streets and neighborhoods and people used to know even if they didn't supervise, there would be someone else in the neighborhood, all that mattered is that they came home for meals. As capitalism expands so does the illusion that you don't need your neighbor because you can purchase any good or service with money, instead people strive to "economic independence" which is deeply anti-social. Someone with enough money for that doesn't need any doctor, any butcher, any grocer, they have the money to always to resort to the market and get the services of another. They are dependent on purchasing the services of a butcher, but not any particular butcher, which in effect destroys any sense of community. People are replaceable and everyone knows it, even "friends" are not useful for much besides entertainment, that is passing time. Often enough even family cannot be counted on when life's troubles come.

 

[Callie]

Callie, love is a fake metaphysical concept that most cannot even explain. My mom told me she loved me all the time growing up, still as I said, like most parents she had no idea what she was doing. People don't know what they are doing in life, they are only taught to be obedient to external institutions and orders in school, how to make and spend money. We don't have any cultural, familial or institutional framework to emphasize anything besides this, so other than that people don't know what they are doing. All parents say they want their kids to have it better than them, but if you actually examine, what they mean is that they want their kids to have MATERIALLY better circumstances than them. This leads to every generation HAVING A WORSE LIFE, than their parents, because every new generation scarified so many human factors to just throw more gifts, money, toys, outings of consumption with their children. This teaches them to be more greedy, self-centered and selfish than the previous generation, etc., etc.

I could go on and on but that should be enough. This forum is about loneliness, every new generation will tend to be more lonely than the other. As capitalism expands so does the illusion that you don't need your neighbor, instead people strive to "economic independence" which is deeply anti-social. Someone with enough money for that doesn't need any doctor, any butcher, any grocer, they have the money to always use another. People are replaceable and everyone knows it, even "friends" are not to be counted. Often enough even family cannot be counted on.

Sounds to me like someone has never experienced love. I HAVE.
If by "obedient" you mean having manners and respect for other people, yes I teach my children those concepts... that you obviously don't possess.
As far as materials things go, you'll notice I never said anything about that. I don't give one flying fresia about material possessions.... yes, I'm sure you probably don't believe that, but you can go ahead and ask ANYONE that actually knows me and they will tell you the same. Yes, my children receive gifts and whatnot, but the majority of it is educational things that will enable them to better themselves and they KNOW the real reason they are celebrating whatever it is they are celebrating. I don't give a flying fresia about material things or money. Yes, I require money to make sure they are fed and have a roof over their heads and are warm, but beyond that, I really don't care.

It's no one's fault but your own if you are unhappy in life. I know people who had HORRIBLE childhoods and are HAPPY now, I know people who had the best childhood, surrounded by family and LOVE and are unhappy. It's not on the parents, it is on the INDIVIDUAL PERSON.

As I said before, you don't know everyone, you are callous and disrespectful and have no regards for anyone but yourself.

 

[Thrasymachus]

How long did your "love" which you experienced last before its expiration date? I thought the cliche was that "love" was eternal, "till death do us part". My grandparents and all their generation in Greece never married out of love, they had arranged marriages. Their generation didn't think they needed a best friend, "soul-mate", lover rolled into one. They didn't hold hands all the time or make other obsequious public displays of affection. Instead they knew something closer to the truth, it is about being stable, about choosing someone who can you can tolerate living with and raising a family with for 20 some years. As a result they had an almost non-existent divorce rate in their society.

People are taught to believe all sorts of stupid honeysuckle to create more economic activity. In our cultural pattern: people date to find a potential mate, which is fake, vintage 1920's American concept unprecedented before that point. From that generation on people thought they could choose a mate for a family based on such shallow criteria as eating out, spending money at various indoor boxes we call stores, etc. That model has proven a total failure already, but most people are too unthinking, so they can only accept what is already narrowly patterned by the current paradigm. Society evolves to make more humane people less happy, but a countervailing trend is that some people people who become ever more venal can become happy or at least fake it better.

What kind of kids are flaky modern people, especially and the worst of perhaps all, modern young Americans gonna raise? All people tend to think life is about is spending, making money and entertaining yourself in the scraps you have to yourself. And raising kids to repeat and perhaps "improve" the process. Society would translate it as more money, "better" entertainment.

 

[Callie]

How long did your "love" last before its expiration date? My grandparents and all their generation in Greece never married out of love, they had arranged marriages. Their generation didn't think they needed a best friend, "soul-mate", lover rolled into one. They didn't hold hand all the time or make other public displays of affection. Instead they knew something closer to the truth, it is about being stable, about choosing someone who can you can tolerate living with and raising a family with for 20 some years. As a result they had an almost non-existent divorce rate in their society.

People are taught to believe all sorts of stupid honeysuckle to create more economic activity. Like I said in our cultural pattern: people date which is fake 1920's American concept unprecedented before that point. They thought they could choose a mate for a family based on shallow criteria as eating out and spending money at various indoor boxes we call stores. That model has proven a total failure already, but most people are too unthinking so they can only accept the culturally patterned. Society evolves to make more humane people less happy, but a countervailing trend is that people some people people who become ever more venal can become happy or at least fake it better.

I'm sorry, I don't believe I said my LOVE had an expiration date. In fact, it does not. I will ALWAYS love my husband, whether we are together or not. I'm not the type of person who can/will turn love off. I will love him forever.
As far as your messed up view on dating, it's not about what the people DO, it's about being together, it's about getting to know one another. It's about taking the time to enjoy the simple things in life. Personally, I would rather have a picnic in the park than go to a restaurant.
Maybe I'm just a freak that doesn't give a fresia about the "finer" things in life. I would rather have a simple life filled with love than a life filled with material things.

YOU do not ******* know me...so do NOT ******* start putting words in my mouth and pretending you know one mother ******* thing about me, because I can assure you that you do not. You seem to be full of self pity because you do not have love, you choose to not believe in it and that's all well and good, but don't start writing things on a forum like this that are clearly not true because you want others to be as miserable as you seem to be.
I'm glad I met and married my husband, he gave me two beautiful talented children and we both LOVE them with everything we are. Anything they need, we will do everything in our power to provide it for them. Now, you'll notice I said NEED, not WANT.

That said, I'm done with this thread and I'm done reading the bullshit you choose to type.

 

[mrsme]

Ok, hold up! When did this have anything to do with love being real or not? I personally believe love is real and i do feel loved by my parents.

Callie first off it is not on me that i am not happy? I mean you don't know me but obviously you can't have experienced what i have? I have tried so much, to think positively, different meds, change my environment but nothing works and i do try and make so much effort but most days it is the little things that is difficult for me, to get out of bed, maybe wash my hair, it is hard for me to do those things, and i wish you could understand that i have tried everything i can but i am left miserable.

And if you have kids maybe you can answer the question why? I mean why did you have them? And what do they give you?

 

[annik]

Personally I find it really hard to see your point of view. I have the exact same issues and can relate but I spend my life desperately trying to make my mum see its not her fault. She did everything she could. These are my problems. I don't blame her and think her selfish. It would crush me if she took the responsibility of my crappy life on her shoulders.

 

[Thrasymachus]

You are way too defensive and immature. If romantic love is so solid and exists, why do the people in our society who alway seek it and choose to form a male-female union based on it tend to end up in divorce? Previous societies knew love was instead something for a mistress, for cheating on your spouse, for a brief moment of passion.

Never has a society had so many people say they loved each other romantically, decided to get married, start a family, then divorce. It is a quite a feat, perhaps I should blame love and everyone else should too for this massive scandal.

 

[mrsme]

You are way too defensive and immature. If romantic love is so solid and exists, why do the people in our society who alway seek it and choose to form a male-female union based on it tend to end up in divorce? Previous societies knew love was instead something for a mistress, for cheating on your spouse, for a brief moment of passion.

Never has a society had so many people say they loved each other romantically, decided to get married, start a family, then divorce. It is a quite a feat, perhaps I should blame love and everyone else should too for this massive scandal.

For fresia sake could you just shut up about love and materialism and people only caring about money and honeysuckle, Feel that way fine but it has nothing to do with my point. I don't wanna go on an date at a expensive restaurant have a big fancy wedding, I just wanna find the person i belong with the most in this world and be with them.

---

Personally I find it really hard to see your point of view. I have the exact same issues and can relate but I spend my life desperately trying to make my mum see its not her fault. She did everything she could. These are my problems. I don't blame her and think her selfish. It would crush me if she took the responsibility of my crappy life on her shoulders.

I understand what you are saying and i am not blaming my parents for any of my depression/issues and they have been very supportive.

I am just saying in general that having children is not as wonderful and you are not such a great person for giving up your life to give another one. I just don't get having kids.

And now this is messed up but it is what it is, I want children. I have sometimes a longing to have kids when i am older of course but i think the reason i want them is for me. For my life, my well being, but it is people you know? Not puppets! I Love kids but i don't think i could have them knowing how selfish i am being.

But i guess i have to resist the longing for having them. Because i truly believe that it is a selfish act to create a life and give birth.

 

[Thrasymachus]

That is another false naive concept. No wonder why most people get divorced as they too often think like that. It is more about who you can tolerant being with for 20+ years.

If you have lofty goals which can only be imaginary often enough dismal reality slaps you in the face. You end up frustrated and you want out to search for the imaginary goal post again.

 

[mrsme]

That is another false naive concept. No wonder why most people get divorced as they too often think like that. It is more about who you can tolerant being with for 20+ years.

If you have lofty goals which can only be imaginary often enough dismal reality slaps you in the face. You end up frustrated and you want out to search for the imaginary goal post again.

This is all turning into what we believe in and not.. jesus i don't want to get married ok? But love? My soul mate, yeah i would like that.. and i know you would too, even if you don't believe it exists, if it does don't you want it?

 

[Thrasymachus]

Sorry I don't believe in that type of clap-crap. I had the fortune to experience much time with grandparents raised in a different, older tradition. Also I am more intellectual and read more of substance than others, so I know our concept of romantic love is an oddity, a perverted new concept. Obviously it doesn't work too if you look around you or at statistics. Also I am contrarian by nature, if everyone does something and thinks a certain way, it tends to make me suspicious, because I know how unthoughtful most are.

Does it make sense to you that seeking a good time together with someone of the opposite sex, would lead to a stable family life? Do friends that you have fun with all the time, actually help you out ever, either?

 

[mrsme]

Sorry I don't believe in that type of clap-crap. I had the fortune to experience much time with grandparents raised in a different, older tradition. Also I am more intellectual and read more of substance than others, so I know our concept of romantic love is an oddity, a perverted new concept. Obviously it doesn't work too if you look around you or at statistics. Also I am contrarian by nature, if everyone does something and thinks a certain way, it tends to make me suspicious, because I know how unthoughtful most are.

Does it make sense to you that seeking a good time together with someone of the same sex, would lead to a stable family life? Do friends that you have fun with all the time, actually help you out ever, either?

Yes same sex relationships makes perfect sense to me ok, i am not retarded.

And i don't have any real friends so. There are people i get along with very well but nobody can help me.