The N*gger/ Honkey equality

[Badjedidude]

Ok, before I go into this little ramble, be informed that I DO NOT LIKE RACISM. I AM NOT A RACIST. lol

The N word = people in chains

My problem with those who cry "slavery" is that they often build up slavery as an emotional, evil, RACE-BASED thing perpetrated by those cruel white fat men who did it because it was fun....or something equally ridiculous. In truth, SLAVERY WAS ONLY EVER AN ECONOMIC practice. There was no great sadistic enjoyment in it; it was purely a business decision...and we all know how negative those can be. Those who claim slavery as their great victimization (even today) seem to also forget that Africans and Islanders were SELLING EACH OTHER into slavery long before Europeans ever showed up.

Mankind has been employing slavery as an economic gain for centuries...and it has little to do with race (as the motivating reason). Africans weren't taken as slaves because they were black! It's because they were CHEAP. They were easy to catch. It's been the same throughout known history. A stronger, more technologically advanced civilization comes and enslaves a lesser-advanced civilization and utilizes them as a workforce. It's that simple.

So I get understandably upset when people equate slavery with race issues....especially when people use slavery as an excuse for their own laziness or lack of work ethic. Sure, there's a bit of race involved, as often it's one race enslaving another...but not in this case.

Black people were called N*ggers LONG before they were taken (and sold by their own people also) as slaves. The race issue comes from the Western European mindset that white races were more pure than darker races....religion also ties in there a bit. But SLAVERY ITSELF is an entirely separate issue, based only in economics....and only connected to race because Africans at this time WERE technologically less advanced than European nations (and therefore, according to the mindset of the times, less advanced as a culture and civilization).

Race is only a secondary consideration in the matter of slavery and has no real impact on it. Keep in mind that whites were also taken as slaves from Spanish and Dutch colonies, and that whites have also been enslaved for centuries under the guise of indentured servitude and serfdom. SLAVERY IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE. And so has little to do with race.

Well there's yet another 2 cents from a history guy's perspective. Keep in mind that I am NOT attempting to excuse slavery, as there is no excuse for it. But I believe I've given a fairly objective, historical glance at the institution of slavery as a whole here...and I hope it shows everyone that NO, the word N*gger DOES NOT equate to people in chains. Lol sorry Soph.

 

[nerdygirl]

Actually, the slavery thing doesn't work for me, either. Not only is it pretty lame to blame my generation for the mistakes made by people generations ago... but I have no ancestors who had slaves. My mother was the first one in her family to come to the USA. My father's grandparents were poor Irish immigrants. On top of that, my daughter's father is black. So it's not even like people can say that I'm racist, and therefore, it's okay to treat me badly as some sort of revenge.

 

[Minus]

Maybe i am off base here but it also seems common in your country to assume that all blacks in your country are descended from slaves, like only whites have ever willingly immigrated there.

 

[Coverage]

The N word = people in chains

Honkey, whitey, cracker. They're all deserved names I think because we had been such ******** to african americans for so long. I say let them laugh at us. Laughter is nothing compared to the slavery we forced them to endure for hundreds of years. Theyre actually being quite kind to us if you think about it...

I'm not even joking.

I can see where your coming from but I dont completely agree. I never participated in slavery. My parents never participated in slavery. My grandparents never participated in slavery, and to the best of my knowledge, my great grandparents never participated in slavery.

Is American slavery "our" fault simply because our skin is white? Slavery is a horrible fact of the worlds present and past. Like BJD pointed out, slavery isnt something the white American invented. All races of people from all walks of life have practiced slavery in one form or another.

I dont think we should forget about the horrors of slavery, but I also see no reason to feel personal guilt over something you didn't do or believe in.

 

[suckaG]

My problem with those who cry "slavery" is that they often build up slavery as an emotional, evil, RACE-BASED thing perpetrated by those cruel white fat men who did it because it was fun....or something equally ridiculous. In truth, SLAVERY WAS ONLY EVER AN ECONOMIC practice. There was no great sadistic enjoyment in it; it was purely a business decision...and we all know how negative those can be. Those who claim slavery as their great victimization (even today) seem to also forget that Africans and Islanders were SELLING EACH OTHER into slavery long before Europeans ever showed up.

Mankind has been employing slavery as an economic gain for centuries...and it has little to do with race (as the motivating reason). Africans weren't taken as slaves because they were black! It's because they were CHEAP. They were easy to catch. It's been the same throughout known history. A stronger, more technologically advanced civilization comes and enslaves a lesser-advanced civilization and utilizes them as a workforce. It's that simple.

So I get understandably upset when people equate slavery with race issues....especially when people use slavery as an excuse for their own laziness or lack of work ethic. Sure, there's a bit of race involved, as often it's one race enslaving another...but not in this case.

BJD, I'm gonna have to totally disagree with you on this.

you could perhaps argue that slavery of blacks by whites was soley economic, except for a key issue; slavery in North America was completely contextualized and perpetuated through racialist legislation. arbitrary amounts of 'black blood' was enough to deem one subhuman, and eligable for lifelong slavehood. light skin, mixed children born of rape or just plain old sex were just as messed as their black mothers by racist laws. literally. blacks could no more 'earn' their freedom (as endentured servitude allowed) than could livestock, because they were legally and socially not considered people capable of understanding or deserving of human dignity or equality with whites.

not to mention Jim crow style apartheid (segregatioon) that only ended one generation ago.

because of this historical reality, I can't really believe the experience of slavery in the US is the same as classical/historical economic slavery, because in most world history, one could buy or win back one's freedom, rather than be force bred for labour for generations on end. of course continental africans sold eachother, but I'm not sure that those practices were perpetuated on race. (I have read that slavery by the colonial powers began economically, but this quickly shifted and was justified through racism. this seems to be a pretty widely accepted historical understanding, IMO).

But I've never actually heard anyone ever claim that slavery in the US had nothing (or little) to do with racism, or that the whole vile enterprise was simply a business venture by capitalists, no hard feelings. do you have any sources I could check out where you came to this conclusion BJD? I'm intrigued, but to be honest, i'm also really sceptical.

 

[Badjedidude]

Well, to be honest I was more speaking about the actual beginnings of slavery in the colonies (not just America). I don't think anyone would argue that there wasn't institutionalized racism in America...because there obviously was. And it was on the books, so to speak.

But you have to look at the times, also. At this time in England (and therefore most English colonies and territories), slavery was a hot-button issue. Everyone knew that it was happening, but the tide of public opinion was for once beginning to turn against it....and so it became politically correct to not LEGALLY refer to slaves as "slaves," but rather try to describe them in other ways...and the easiest way to do that is to fall back upon race.

And once you start down that road, it leads to very dark places indeed. So YES, I totally agree that there was institutionalized racism connected to slavery...but in following the economic view of the situation, I'm attempting to explain the issue in a more objective, clear-cut manner. It's also a relatively new way to investigate the matter, and that's the key to fully understanding something; looking at it from every angle.

do you have any sources I could check out where you came to this conclusion BJD? I'm intrigued, but to be honest, i'm also really sceptical.

I'm generalizing here, of course. Honestly, there's no way we could ever completely go in-depth on a subject like this unless we were in person and prepared beforehand. I could find some sources, but honestly I don't really want to spend the time looking through all of my books to find them. lol....most of what I'm saying is sort of a general overview, as well as a healthy case of thinking out loud.

I was asserting that racism was not the REASON for slavery. Economics was the reason; race was the method of controlling the slaves. I guess I could have worded things a bit better.

 

[suckaG]

oohh BJD, ok, I get you now lol. that sounds far different from what I though you were saying. thanks for clarifying your points

 

[SullenGirl]

God I'm so sick of this racism discussion it's almost nauseating. People are still arguing about the same old racial honeysuckle in 2010. I am losing any faith that I have left in humanity.

"Black people do this...white people do that..."

"Black people think this...white people think that..."

"Black people are offended by this...white people are offended by that..."

(Notice how everything is just black and white...)

Ugghhhh!!

My problem with those who cry "slavery" is that they often build up slavery as an emotional, evil, RACE-BASED thing perpetrated by those cruel white fat men who did it because it was fun....or something equally ridiculous. In truth, SLAVERY WAS ONLY EVER AN ECONOMIC practice. There was no great sadistic enjoyment in it; it was purely a business decision...and we all know how negative those can be. Those who claim slavery as their great victimization (even today) seem to also forget that Africans and Islanders were SELLING EACH OTHER into slavery long before Europeans ever showed up.

Mankind has been employing slavery as an economic gain for centuries...and it has little to do with race (as the motivating reason). Africans weren't taken as slaves because they were black! It's because they were CHEAP. They were easy to catch. It's been the same throughout known history. A stronger, more technologically advanced civilization comes and enslaves a lesser-advanced civilization and utilizes them as a workforce. It's that simple.

So I get understandably upset when people equate slavery with race issues....especially when people use slavery as an excuse for their own laziness or lack of work ethic. Sure, there's a bit of race involved, as often it's one race enslaving another...but not in this case.

That is SUCH a crock. American slavery was TOTALLY based on race. Not only race, but economics as well, like you mentioned. Slavery caused so much psychological trauma and internalized racism amongst Africans, and its effects still linger today, hundreds of years later. Not only did blacks endure slavery, but they endured abuse for hundreds of years AFTER slavery...being hung and attacked by dogs for the color of their skin. Not to mention how the media was used as a tool of humiliation and degradation for African-Americans thereafter...in black face, as mammies and jigaboos and jezebels and sapphires. You have to be out of your mind to say that the slavery in this country was not race-based. NONSENSE.

No sadistic enjoyment? Are you aware the slave owners, on a regular basis, cruely abused and tortured the slaves for their own SICK pleasure? Are you aware that slaves were raped, whipped and beaten? Have you not heard of this?

And this whole "Africans sold each other before the whites came" is such a silly myth and is TOTALLY unfounded.

 

[edgecrusher]

God I'm so sick of this racism discussion it's almost nauseating. People are still arguing about the same old racial honeysuckle in 2010. I am losing any faith that I have left in humanity.

"Black people do this...white people do that..."

"Black people think this...white people think that..."

"Black people are offended by this...white people are offended by that..."

(Notice how everything is just black and white...)

Ugghhhh!!

agreed. unfortunately we will be doing this for the rest of time, or until we kill ourselves off.

 

[SullenGirl]

^ lol you're probably right. :/

 

[Punisher]

And this whole "Africans sold each other before the whites came" is such a silly myth and is TOTALLY unfounded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_slave_trade

 

[shells]

And this whole "Africans sold each other before the whites came" is such a silly myth and is TOTALLY unfounded.

Slavery in Africa continues today. Slavery existed in Africa before the arrival of Europeans - as did a slave trade that exported millions of Africans to North Africa, the Middle East, and the Persian Gulf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_modern_Africa

I find it interesting that people think slavery doesn't exist today.

 

[Punisher]

I find it interesting that people think slavery doesn't exist today.

I've said it before in a different thread, but like everything else it gets ignored and the same thing gets repeated.

 

[shells]

I've said it before in a different thread, but like everything else it gets ignored and the same thing gets repeated.

I won't ignore ya.

 

[Punisher]

I've said it before in a different thread, but like everything else it gets ignored and the same thing gets repeated.

I won't ignore ya.

Lol

 

[Frodo Baggins]

So is this an American based thread? I asked because it seemed to be asking the board but then related to American Blacks and American whites from what I can gauge.
I am not American.
I am mixed race so I don't know whether I fit in.
The half-elves had to choose mortality or mortality (ie be elf or man)
Ought we choose a particular stance? Some blacks are nice and some nasty. That is not racist. Some whites are nice and some nasty. That is not racist. crimes of the forefathers ought not be carried onto the children like some Greek tragedy.
People will always find a nasty name for someone. (* Let it go Frodo- Minus edt*) - ignore the colourblind drooling losers.
Go for quality of values for yourself.
Be something you can be proud of. Like one of the companions in Lord of the Rings. Live life without such race prejudice. (Remember Gimli and Legolas in the movie )

 

[CAS]

I find it very annoying/bemusing sometimes that say in an argument, someone calls you a honkey because your white, you cannot turn around and start saying "what the fresia, u racist" etc, u just laugh it off, but in my head i think, i wonder what his reaction would be if i replied "fresia off u n*gger", im sure things would get quite heated then!

I find it funny how we in this day and age we find it hard to know where to stand moral-wise and what we can and cannot say.

This thread is a disgrace and should be locked. Racial tension is not welcome on this forum.

 

[Badjedidude]

Sullengirl, I must apologize, but your entire rebuttal of my post is based on emotion ONLY.

That is SUCH a crock. American slavery was TOTALLY based on race. Not only race, but economics as well, like you mentioned. Slavery caused so much psychological trauma and internalized racism amongst Africans, and its effects still linger today, hundreds of years later. Not only did blacks endure slavery, but they endured abuse for hundreds of years AFTER slavery...being hung and attacked by dogs for the color of their skin. Not to mention how the media was used as a tool of humiliation and degradation for African-Americans thereafter...in black face, as mammies and jigaboos and jezebels and sapphires. You have to be out of your mind to say that the slavery in this country was not race-based. NONSENSE.

Like I said before, it BEGAN as an economic thing, but BECAME a race thing because the way to control slaves was through race code, which unfortunately lingered beyond the actual days of slavery. Calm down. I'm not arguing for slavery.

No sadistic enjoyment? Are you aware the slave owners, on a regular basis, cruely abused and tortured the slaves for their own SICK pleasure? Are you aware that slaves were raped, whipped and beaten? Have you not heard of this?

Oh really? That's funny, because I've never read any first-hand accounts from slave-owners talking about how fun it was to mutilate their slaves. Slaves were PROPERTY. For the most part they were actually treated fairly decently, aside from harsh working conditions. What slave owner/businessman in his right mind would mortally harm his own capital investment in slaves? Come on.

YES, there were beatings and such...but there is NO PROOF that is was for sadistic enjoyment. I'm sure there was the odd case of such behavior every now and then...but for the most part, a man flogging his slave would be equivalent to a man disciplining his horse.

It's not right to treat a man in such a way, no. But no man kills their horse out of sadistic pleasure or anger. Try to understand the people from the time and you might gain a bit of obviously needed perspective on the matter.

And this whole "Africans sold each other before the whites came" is such a silly myth and is TOTALLY unfounded.

Oh? Proof please. Becuase I've seen and heard plenty of proof to the contrary. In fact it makes perfect sense that many Africans would sell people from other tribes into slavery for their own tribe's gain. Look at Africa right now; FULL of sectional/tribal conflict and hatred. It was the same back then, and tribes would do ANYTHING to gain a hold over each other; including selling each other to enterprising whites.

Look, I'm not arguing that slavery was a morally or ethically good thing, because it wasn't. But you can't deny that it gave the US a HUGE economic boost and foothold...which was the driving reason for slavery.

Why don't you try to calm down, lose the emotional baggage, and remain balanced and unbiased when examining something like this, ok? And next time bring proof and level-headed discussion, instead of emotional outburst. Thanks.

 

[Bluey]

I find it very annoying/bemusing sometimes that say in an argument, someone calls you a honkey because your white, you cannot turn around and start saying "what the fresia, u racist" etc, u just laugh it off, but in my head i think, i wonder what his reaction would be if i replied "fresia off u n*gger", im sure things would get quite heated then!

I find it funny how we in this day and age we find it hard to know where to stand moral-wise and what we can and cannot say.

haha, Honestly I think if some one called me a Honker I would genuinely piss my self laughing hahahaha That would be the most cheesiest insult ever.
And dude if someone takes the piss out of you cos your white then if you wont to call them a n*gger then do it lol. Honestly the color thing as never been an issue with me. But man I would have to have some fun with such a cheep insult as honker LMAO

 

[dreamer8]

The N word = people in chains

Honkey, whitey, cracker. They're all deserved names I think because we had been such ******** to african americans for so long. I say let them laugh at us. Laughter is nothing compared to the slavery we forced them to endure for hundreds of years. Theyre actually being quite kind to us if you think about it...

I'm not even joking.

Amen.