The unimportantce of being

[floatsamjetsam]

Well, if you want to know, is there a "you". Ask yourself, can you really explain who you are, the emotions you feel, the pain that holds you down to others? Or are you only able to convey that you are IN pain.

If you really think hard about this, and try your best to describe yourself you will only come up with ideas, nothing tangible like explaining a tree to someone else, you will only be able to describe what you see through a filter physically, and absolutely nothing else emotionally or spiritually.

That is because there is no "you", it's an illusion that we create to make sense of the phenomena present to us in our every day lives, the story that is "me". But that isn't tangible, there is no way to cross the explanatory gap to help someone to understand what you're going through in it's entirety and full scope.

The ego is there to help us to understand the world, but it is also a massive hindrance, it prevents us from seeing the true nature of reality and our actions, by creating a bias that doesn't exist.

I'm going to tell you something that you're most likely not ready to hear, but possibly might plant some sort of idea of the importance of being that you might use one day to get out of the mess you're in. You want to be lonely because it's all you know, you feel safe in that, even though there's a part of you telling you that you aren't right and need to be social, the majority of your emotional character is telling you that you are content and happy being alone. This is the ego, you've had built up/allowed to be built, ideas about the world that just aren't true, that you have no purpose here, that you are special in some way to other people and have a spoiled lot in life that was given to you by some divine force that despises you in every way.

This is not true.

You may not be able to accept this now, but it is simply not true. Meaning is what you make of it, that's all there is, you won't finally fall into place and everything will work out how you imagine it should, that just won't happen. What can happen is that you accept you are a part of this world, and learn to live within it and be content just living. Or you will continue to live through your ego, and accept what the story tells you you should be.

It's your choice, but I can tell you right now, there is a way you can be truly happy whether that be alone or with others, you can learn to be a social being. It's all a matter of whether or not you want to let go of this story you keep telling yourself. That's all. You have to choose between reality and the story, and that's entirely up to you to decide.

 

[Devon]

Jeez there are loooong replies here. I could lose the will to live
Hi cumulus

I feel the need for music whilst I cook. I got chicken and peppers and a sauce and rice and tommys. Delish
Off topic I know! So shoot me! Joke definitely a joke

 

[Despicable Me]

Economics dear. I dropped out of school at 14 and existed by selling the only thing I had - my body. At 35 the value of my body is in negative territory. No qualifications + no work history + no references = no job. No job = no money. No money = no ability to participate in society. No participation in society = no friends. No friends = no social life. No social life = no partner.

The algebra of my situation is hard to argue with. The output of the function of my existence can only be abject poverty and chronic loneliness.

I can argue rather easily with that. Maybe because I'm rather good at algebra.

Even sitting at the park, on a bench, and just watching the pigeons doesn't take anymore money than sitting at home staring at the walls. And at least you're outside, with people.
And how much does it cost you to say 'Hello' to some strangers? Has a smile ever cost anyone anything?

And I know getting a job isn't easy, but there are places that will accept just about anyone because they just need someone who is reliable. It may not be work that anyone enjoys doing, and it may not pay much, but everyone has to start somewhere. You can start there if you truly believe there is nothing else.

Your equation falls apart at the beginning. If you fill 'X' with 'Nothing' then of course the other side of the equation is going to be nothing. Nothing equals nothing, that's true, but that's not the only equation. I told you, you're not a ghost. You're not nothing.
That's why I told you earlier: Do Something. Fill that equation. Make it your own. Make it interesting. Make it unique. Make it meaningful.

Fill that 'X' with something other than what you do now. You'll find that equation is harder to solve, but much more satisfying.

 

[Paraiyar]

Economics dear. I dropped out of school at 14 and existed by selling the only thing I had - my body. At 35 the value of my body is in negative territory. No qualifications + no work history + no references = no job. No job = no money. No money = no ability to participate in society. No participation in society = no friends. No friends = no social life. No social life = no partner.

The algebra of my situation is hard to argue with. The output of the function of my existence can only be abject poverty and chronic loneliness.

Don't you have a business certificate of some sort?I'm sure I remember reading in one of your earliest threads that you do.

 

[Devon]

Pigeons are my favourite. I love pigeons.
I'm off to bed now with a hot water bottle. Cold here! And very dark!
All cozy and curled up with my dog and doc martin though.
Night all x

 

[LonesomeDay]

James, I know it.

I lived alone from the age of 17 (boarding schools from the age of 12 - the final four school years in a children's home). When my mother died (in the mid-80's), I went years not speaking to anyone socially - just going to work and back home. Earning enough to pay the rent, other bills and food. Not enough for a social life (not that I could cope with one, having social phobia and anxiety). I was so lonely I could die. I drew and painted and cried. One day I bought a camera, and set off to Kew Gardens to photograph the flowers. It was my birthday. I had no friends and no family, and was of no importance to anyone - invisible you might say.

There was no way 'in' to a social life that I could see. It wasn't just about the money; after work and the long journey home, I was too tired to 'go out' and my weekends were spent doing housework, laundry and shopping - I was too afraid to go out at night, especially after dark - and so I basically gave up on socialising.

There are no words to express the bottomless pit of despair that I found myself in, some dark poetry might some close, the endless nights...

It affected me deeply, it was not of my choosing, I did what I could in order to survive. I learned to embrace the solitude. It was like that until the mid-90's when I answered a personal ad. and met my future husband. He's in his mid-60's now and I in my early fifties, and I know that when he dies I will be alone again, and will die alone. Oh, and one other thing. I am bisexual. There I've said it. It doesn't really matter anymore...

 

[Tiina63]

I'm not very good at philosophy but if you exist, then there must be a you. It sounds as though you are completely lacking in feedback/validity/connection/positive reinforcement from others. You have only yourself to give you this and no one can meet all of their own needs. Is there any way at all you could start to reach out to people?

---

I am worthless. I know it. People automatically notice it. In order for a person to want you to be a part of thier life you must have something to bring to thier life. I have nothing. I am aware I would be a burden to anyone I ever got to know.

This is 100% not true. You have so much to offer to others. The really horrendous experiences you have gone through have given you the ability to listen to others talk about their pain without dismissing them or rejecting them or putting them down. There is no way you would be a burden. You are the sort of person I could relax with because I could be myself with you.

 

[Stonely]

If you are really unsatisfied with your current life then see a therapist.

 

[cumulus.james]

If you are really unsatisfied with your current life then see a therapist.

I live in the UK. One cannot just "see a therapist" at will.

 

[Despicable Me]

Just for what it's worth:
Worthless people do worthless things - like become politicians, or CEOs.

You're not worthless, James. I think you're a very interesting person. I can easily relate to that thing about feeling like you're a burden to anyone who you might get to know. That's how I often feel, due to personal experience with people.

 

[cumulus.james]

Just for what it's worth:
Worthless people do worthless things - like become politicians, or CEOs.

You're not worthless, James. I think you're a very interesting person. I can easily relate to that thing about feeling like you're a burden to anyone who you might get to know. That's how I often feel, due to personal experience with people.

Thanks. These kinds of feelings and situations for me have been just over 2 decades in the making. It is not so easy to just 'snap out of it'.

 

[Paraiyar]

You know about Schrodinger's cat. So clearly you do have content within you.

 

[Despicable Me]

Thanks. These kinds of feelings and situations for me have been just over 2 decades in the making. It is not so easy to just 'snap out of it'.

No, it's definitely not that easy. But with enough clear insight into yourself it does happen.

Something I'm currently working on now, myself. I'm not sure where your issue lies, but mine seems to have been with the clarity. I had the insight thing nailed down pretty well, though.
And I think, from what I've read of your posts, you've got the insight, as well. You just need the clarity.

 

[cumulus.james]

Thanks. These kinds of feelings and situations for me have been just over 2 decades in the making. It is not so easy to just 'snap out of it'.

No, it's definitely not that easy. But with enough clear insight into yourself it does happen.

Something I'm currently working on now, myself. I'm not sure where your issue lies, but mine seems to have been with the clarity. I had the insight thing nailed down pretty well, though.
And I think, from what I've read of your posts, you've got the insight, as well. You just need the clarity.

My problems have been summarized best by others:

“The fundamental problem of political philosophy is still precisely the one that Spinoza saw so clearly (and that Wilhelm Reich rediscovered): Why do men fight for their servitude as stubbornly as though it were their salvation?”

- Gilles Deleuze - Anti Odipius

"Where our intentions themselves come from, however, and what determines their character in every instant, remains perfectly mysterious in subjective terms. Our sense of free will arises from a failure to appreciate this fact: we do not know what we will intend to do until the intention itself arises. To see this is to realize that you are not the author of your thoughts and actions in the way that people generally suppose."

Sam Harris

First chance, then choice. First "free," then "will."

 

[Kite Runner]

Hello

Have you ever thought of making your own blog? You must write. I admire the way you choose meaningful deep words to convey your feelings..

---

James, it was meant for you.

 

[cumulus.james]

Hello

Have you ever thought of making your own blog? You must write. I admire the way you choose meaningful deep words to convey your feelings..

---

James, it was meant for you.

---

I have thought about it. Some people have been able to make a living from it. Unfortunately the way things are at the moment it is not a possibility.

The Kite Runner is that film which features the dancing boys of Afghanistan in which one boy is raped by some older boys is it not? The dancing boys of Afghanistan is still a part of culture over there, boys 10 - 15 are kept as lovers for men.

 

[Kite Runner]

If you have it on the list that means you might go for it one day. We must have plans at least, no matter how long we take to actually give them life. Take your time.

You are in to reading or you watched the movie? Afghanistan is an unfortunate country. A lot of bad has happened to it, so I really don't think whatever is happening there is actually their fault. The culture, the society, it's all damaged. The innocent kids have lost their innocence. I hope they stand up and take things in their control.

 

[cumulus.james]

If you have it on the list that means you might go for it one day. We must have plans at least, no matter how long we take to actually give them life. Take your time.

You are in to reading or you watched the movie? Afghanistan is an unfortunate country. A lot of bad has happened to it, so I really don't think whatever is happening there is actually their fault. The culture, the society, it's all damaged. The innocent kids have lost their innocence. I hope they stand up and take things in their control.

I don't have it on my list I just think about it sometimes.

I have read about the movie, I haven't watched it fully. I attempted to but could not get into it.

 

[Despicable Me]

My problems have been summarized best by others:

“The fundamental problem of political philosophy is still precisely the one that Spinoza saw so clearly (and that Wilhelm Reich rediscovered): Why do men fight for their servitude as stubbornly as though it were their salvation?”
- Gilles Deleuze - Anti Odipius

This doesn't really say much about you personally, though. Are you the the one perceiving the servitude, or are you the one fighting for it? Or maybe both?

Regardless of that, there is a reason for why people do such a thing, and why those who perceive it most usually only contribute to it themselves. Because true change is difficult.
If we were theoretically all born into servitude and always lived in servitude, why would we seek 'freedom'? It is a foreign thing to us. It is jarring and difficult to comprehend. It requires change, not just in our situation but within ourselves. It requires the absolute destruction of who we are, what we believe we are, and a completely new beginning from the basis of what is essentially a newborn.
And like newborns they will cry at first, but a baby that learns to smile enjoys smiling. And this smile will last until they learn of their servitude and learn of their captors.
And so I will ask you this, what reason would a child born free have to stop smiling?

The pain of change is something we all endure whether we actually accept it or not. Things change. We change. Life changes. The world changes. Change is everything in the universe. Absolutely nothing is static or unchanging. Science has proven this for us.

In any case, I do not know your circumstances. I don't know if you're just simply watching the crime occur, or if you're the victim, or if you're even the victimizer. Maybe you're all three. But no matter what - change is there. Waiting.
We are merely to accept it. Learn from it. Embrace it.

It's actually kind of funny you'd reply to me with a quote like this. I've written so many posts and speeches on this very subject. The quote you provided is something I can understand and sympathize with very deeply. And also something that I've devoted a lot of my time into discussing, thinking, and writing about.

"Where our intentions themselves come from, however, and what determines their character in every instant, remains perfectly mysterious in subjective terms. Our sense of free will arises from a failure to appreciate this fact: we do not know what we will intend to do until the intention itself arises. To see this is to realize that you are not the author of your thoughts and actions in the way that people generally suppose."

Sam Harris

First chance, then choice. First "free," then "will."

Personally, I never really liked Sam Harris much to be honest. To be completely honest I actually think he's a bit of a bigot, despite the irony of this. But that isn't so much relevant here. I point this out because I think he lacks completeness to his ideas. He is a sort of extremist on many particular issues yet he seems to completely overlook the massive irony this draws to his beliefs. The quote you provided is but one example, albeit a more subtle one.

I've seen this quote referenced many times by many people. And it's one of those quotes that makes me sad, because I truly think it is incomplete. It's not that I completely disagree with it, but it just doesn't seem to be a complete ideology. It's a half-truth, if you will.

Harris essentially argues here that we are the byproducts of our life, in contrast to the common belief most seem to conclude that life is a byproduct of our self.
I think they're all wrong. Or both right. However you might want to look at it.

Let's go back to the original quote by Deleuze.
What isn't seen in that quote is his primary philosophy: That difference is not a product of things, but things are a product of difference.
In other words, difference and division is what defines all things.

I bring this up because this is what Harris is always lacking in his thoughts to truly form the coherency that so many try to give him credit for, despite not truly possessing.
It's somewhat ironic you'd quote the two together, when in my opinion the two authors could not be much more different in their philosophical positions.

The way our minds work do create many illusions, one of which is this concept we call 'free will', but it is not so easily overlooked as merely just an illusion, an unreality. What Harris does not seem to understand is that illusions are very, very important to humanity, and to the mind. I'd even argue that they're important to reality, but that's another topic altogether that I won't get into now.
Essentially all things are an illusion in terms of thought. All things, entirely.

Our sight? Nothing but wavelengths of light transferred through electro-chemical signals converting them into a pattern that we come to understand as sight. The illusion here is very real, it is a process we call "chemistry".
But I won't stop there - everything we "see" and perceive is 'not truly real'. By the time that the light gets into our eyes, and the chemicals transfer the signal, and our brain processes it all... We are seeing into nothing but the past. This "reality" that we all know? It is the illusion. And we base all of our thoughts on the past. And we can do nothing but that, because that is how we are made.

So, what right does Harris have to just disregard 'Free Will'? Granted it is an illusion - but if we are speaking of thoughts and the mind, then what isn't an illusion? And maybe that's his point, but yet again it is incomplete.
The nature of the mind being unable to act upon illusions is the real illusion here. And this is the core of what Harris argues here. And it is wrong.

We are the changing actors upon change. That is where the confusion comes from. 'Free Will' is no more an 'illusion' than what we know as our hand, or a rock, or music. That is to say it is all an illusion - but all extremely meaningful and important. Harris disregards the value of illusions, and that's the real pity here.

To once again return to Deleuze, if you are to agree with his philosophy, that difference is what defines all things, then you should also accept that all illusions of the mind are created from and reflect a singular whole. That whole is what we call "reality". That these illusions are no less meaningful than reality itself. Simply reflections of what it really is. And, also, that reality changes, and so do we. And there is a choice in that change, created by our differences. And that's the real beauty of life, in my opinion.

 

[Tiina63]

Christmas coming up. 2 months of the whole of society reminding me I am a loser and alone.

I can identify with you as I am alone on Christmas Day as well and it can be very lonely. Do the Salvation Army have a branch near you as often they put on a Christmas Dinner for people on their own? I am going to put my name down next month for Christmas Dinner at my local Salvation Army branch as it will be an improvement on being alone.