Why is this a common theme?

[Luna]

"Bad boys/ Bad girls" are often very physically attractive - they ooze sex appeal and fun.

One can act like the stereotypical "Bad boy/ Bad girl", be confident etc., but if you look like Shrek, you aren't going to be getting men and women throwing themselves at you any time soon (unless you have status, money, power etc).

Better-looking people are treated better as a whole.
It's not in my mind, it's a fact.
Of course there are exceptions to anything - there will those who are able to see inner beauty, but they are the few.

You could have the personality of a honeysuckle, but it doesn't matter when you look like say, David Beckham or Megan Fox.
Next thing you know, after being worshiped and put on a pedestal, you come to have entitlement issues and people will still kiss the ground that you walk on regardless of how you treat them.

I have many female acquaintances, that would choose the man that cheats, lies, rips their hearts out rather than the sweet, shy man that would give anything for one person's attention.
(Of course, I approach these kind of "shy" men and make it clear that I'd be interested in hanging out...but often or not, they reject me...guess I take out the fun out of them winning over a "challenge"...that's another story for another day however...)

Change the sexes, nothing is different.

I have a relative that is a complete ***** - she shrieks, yells, swears, manipulates, gossips about people...she admits that she is a bully.
She has jewelry box after jewelry box filled with gold and diamonds from men whom she used for money, and dumped.
If in fact she weren't family, I would want nothing to do with her.
But she has people lining up from when she was a teen til now, during her mid-40s...it doesn't matter however she treats them - she's ******* hot, and "confidence" alone can't turn a Shrek into a 10.
In a way, society makes these people this way - no one calls them out on their bullshit.
Hell, if I tried acting like that, I'd be even more isolated than I already am.

Now I've probably strayed a bit from the original topic...

 

[Zackarydoo]

"Bad boys/ Bad girls" are often very physically attractive - they ooze sex appeal and fun.

One can act like the stereotypical "Bad boy/ Bad girl", be confident etc., but if you look like Shrek, you aren't going to be getting men and women throwing themselves at you any time soon (unless you have status, money, power etc).

Better-looking people are treated better as a whole.
It's not in my mind, it's a fact.
Of course there are exceptions to anything - there will those who are able to see inner beauty, but they are the few.

You could have the personality of a honeysuckle, but it doesn't matter when you look like say, David Beckham or Megan Fox.
Next thing you know, after being worshiped and put on a pedestal, you come to have entitlement issues and people will still kiss the ground that you walk on regardless of how you treat them.

I have many female acquaintances, that would choose the man that cheats, lies, rips their hearts out rather than the sweet, shy man that would give anything for one person's attention.
(Of course, I approach these kind of "shy" men and make it clear that I'd be interested in hanging out...but often or not, they reject me...guess I take out the fun out of them winning over a "challenge"...that's another story for another day however...)

Change the sexes, nothing is different.

I have a relative that is a complete ***** - she shrieks, yells, swears, manipulates, gossips about people...she admits that she is a bully.
She has jewelry box after jewelry box filled with gold and diamonds from men whom she used for money, and dumped.
If in fact she weren't family, I would want nothing to do with her.
But she has people lining up from when she was a teen til now, during her mid-40s...it doesn't matter however she treats them - she's ******* hot, and "confidence" alone can't turn a Shrek into a 10.
In a way, society makes these people this way - no one calls them out on their bullshit.
Hell, if I tried acting like that, I'd be even more isolated than I already am.

Now I've probably strayed a bit from the original topic...

You talk so much sense Luna. Your first sentence does sum up the real reason for the way things are. In a way, if you're someone who chooses to be with someone like that based on looks and sex-appeal, then you're probably a similar shallow 'not too nice' person yourself, so a good match for them. You're also right that better looking people are generally treated better, that is completely 100% true, and the people who say that isn't true are possibly the shallow ones who cause that fact in the first place but don't like to admit it.

Another thought I had about all this is that the type of woman I'd be a better match for, who'd think in a similar way to me, isn't the type who would go out much, and maybe not even the type to use Internet forums. I sometimes imagine that the perfect girl for me is sitting in a house somewhere, maybe just a few doors away from where I live, and they're longing to meet a guy like me - But we'll never meet because we both never go anywhere. :shy:

Wow that relative of yours sounds like a real cow! Sorry! LOL.

 

[Papabear]

Sophia I totally agree with your first post.

This is a loneliness forum so I can't expect a change in this theme anytime soon, but just like your quoted ethics book says, its really easy to generalize and stereotype people in a negative way.

Since people who are in a lonely state tend to be threatened easily, a place to vent like this would be filled with misconceptions based on those easy-to-believe generalizations.

and just like my quoted sociology book says and just like all sociology books will say... stereotypes have to be somewhat true for them to stick in the first place

 

[Steel]

"One reason for stereotypes is the lack of personal, concrete familiarity that individuals have with persons in other racial or ethnic groups. Lack of familiarity encourages the lumping together of unknown individuals." Charles E. Hurst (Sociologist)

In other words, stereotypes, like predjudice, can be the result of ignorance - something with which I would heartily agree.

A stereotype does not necessarily hold any truth whatsoever; e.g. the stereotype of blonde females being less intelligent than brunettes. Clearly, this is a good example of a stereotype that contains no truth; hair colour does not affect intelligence, and it would be utterly ridiculous to claim it did.

 

[Tramp]

It's all human psychology isn't it? You crave what you can't get, and when you get it, well, you start craving the opposite.

 

[Alaric]

I have found the same thing, that "Nice guys come last"

I wish I knew why...

Sometimes I think being nice is perceived as some kind of desperation or weakness by women - and some men. At other times I think it is perceived as a lack of confidence in the man, and this makes many women turn off them.

I have been laughed at, ridiculed, been the butt of jokes, and even lost a job for giving a helpful co-worker a thank you card that said, "Thank You for all Your Hard Work!" Apparently even doing something like that is "creepy" to many people. Saying thanks to people was how I was raised. Being nice to other people was also a part of how I was raised. I do not see women as sex objects, nor as inferior, and I have never seen any reason why women should not be paid the same as men for the same jobs. But I still like women to be women. I like to open doors, buy flowers, and let the woman choose where we go to eat while I pay the bill. I am faithful, and I am reliable. I do not rule the home, or the checkbook. If she wants to be a doctor, I will work to help her achieve that. Whatever she wants to do, I will support. And, for reasons that totally escape me, that earns me the title of "creepy" or "weak" or "metrosexual." I just thought it was good manners, and a way to show people I care about them.

 

[Thirteen]

Yup, that's human nature. =/ I'm verbally quite poor but I'll try to write about some experiences I've had.

I think women feel the urge to conquer men who don't blindly do everything women say, who have their own will and opinions and like to dominate the woman. Now combine good looks with the forementioned qualities, and I think you'd have the kind of men that are called alpha-males, men who like to go their own way. Women, especially "hot" and "sexy" ones, seem to like being dominated - however relationships based on these things don't work too well as far as I see. And about looks; if your face or body doesn't bother you, it won't probably bother other people either, except if you're exceptionally "bad looking" which I don't think anyone here is.

Alaric said; "I like to open doors, buy flowers, and let the woman choose where we go to eat while I pay the bill. I am faithful, and I am reliable."

Women who are not very mature would probably find you very boring - you are too reliable. "Hot" women seem to crave for unpredictable men, do not ask me why, I'm just saying what I've experienced. I used to be a genuine "reliable nice guy", but after my ex dumped me and I started hanging out in bars and night clubs, I felt like all the niceness and faithfulness had been in vain. I had been a guy who was there when you needed him, who would rather go to movies with you than get wasted with his friends, who'd pay the bill when you went to eat - and I was dumped?!

I became very bitter toward all girls and actually lost all the respect for the entire female sex - and suddenly I found myself constantly having one night stands, even though I'm no Brad Pitt. I still can't believe that with all the insulting stuff I said to girls and disrespectful manners they would still find their way to my bed. It was just so wrong. The less interested in them you were the more they wanted to go down. I tried to date a couple of girls but I realised that I had lost the ability to carry on a serious relationship - I just didn't care about the girls even though they were great in their looks as in their nature.This went on for a couple of years and I became quite messed up in my head. I'm a true *******, and I've realised that I want to go back to those days when I was the nice guy. After you get past the phase when your ego boosts every time you nail a chick (legendary plus one mindset), you really feel empty inside about those one night stands.

But I'm quite positive that I've learned from all this. Women cannot be held by doing everything they want you to do - you have to prove that you have a small alpha male living inside you somewhere and you must let him out from time to time. You can start with small things, like taking her to a restaurant where YOU want to eat, or going out to the local pub with YOUR friends instead of going to a night club with hers. Hell, perhaps you could flirt lightly with other girls in front of her just to make her feel threatened that she might lose you.

These are just some observations I've made on Northern-European girls that don't probably browse internet forums about loneliness, but any girls like to comment or correct me please?

 

[shells]

But I'm quite positive that I've learned from all this. Women cannot be held by doing everything they want you to do - you have to prove that you have a small alpha male living inside you somewhere and you must let him out from time to time. You can start with small things, like taking her to a restaurant where YOU want to eat

I agree with this. In my first relationship, I remember being disappointed that he couldn't seem to choose a single thing for himself. When asked where he wanted to eat, what movie to see, where to go on the date, his response was always: "Up to you." Not that I mind picking a place or movie, but sometimes I really don't want to be making all of the decisions. It may seem like a "nice" gesture, but it feels like I just had a relationship with myself instead of an individual who had their own likes and dislikes.

The deal-breaker in that relationship was something irrelevant to this topic.

 

[Scott]

But I'm quite positive that I've learned from all this. Women cannot be held by doing everything they want you to do - you have to prove that you have a small alpha male living inside you somewhere and you must let him out from time to time. You can start with small things, like taking her to a restaurant where YOU want to eat

I agree with this. In my first relationship, I remember being disappointed that he couldn't seem to choose a single thing for himself. When asked where he wanted to eat, what movie to see, where to go on the date, his response was always: "Up to you." Not that I mind picking a place or movie, but sometimes I really don't want to be making all of the decisions. It may seem like a "nice" gesture, but it feels like I just had a relationship with myself instead of an individual who had their own likes and dislikes.

The deal-breaker in that relationship was something irrelevant to this topic.

I think perhaps between the two of you both you might have summed up the truth of the matter for many people. Women aren't necessarily looking for a 'badboy', just someone who will challenge them and make them think sometimes.

Unfortunately sometimes this will lead them right to guys who treat them like honeysuckle. Because the guy may have this one quality though, that's preferable for the women to someone who treats them with respect who won't challenge them and thus is (sooner or later) boring. Guys need to keep the edge that keep women on their toes. You don't keep that by agreeing to everything she says, or (quite ironically), trying to make her happy all of the time.

I guess the main problem for a guy is to retain the respect for people they might be lucky enough to have, and at the same time not be a door mat. A lot of guys find that very difficult and spend lots of their life trying to figure it out; for others it's not even worth a second pause for thought.

I personally think that to an extent the stereotype has a certain amount of truth but probably is an end result of something else rather than the direct cause of the problem.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I think perhaps between the two of you both you might have summed up the truth of the matter for many people. Women aren't necessarily looking for a 'badboy', just someone who will challenge them and make them think sometimes.

Unfortunately sometimes this will lead them right to guys who treat them like honeysuckle. Because the guy may have this one quality though, that's preferable for the women to someone who treats them with respect who won't challenge them and thus is (sooner or later) boring. Guys need to keep the edge that keep women on their toes. You don't keep that by agreeing to everything she says, or (quite ironically), trying to make her happy all of the time.

I guess the main problem for a guy is to retain the respect for people they might be lucky enough to have, and at the same time not be a door mat. A lot of guys find that very difficult and spend lots of their life trying to figure it out; for others it's not even worth a second pause for thought.

I personally think that to an extent the stereotype has a certain amount of truth but probably is an end result of something else rather than the direct cause of the problem.

Yes, it's all about BALANCE.

 

[FillyTheBish]

Some women like nice guys too. I've met a few, so I know they are out there.

However, I also accept that we are all products of evolution, we are slaves to our genetics and hormones.

In general, men and women are both equally shallow, but in different ways.

It has been proven, both by observing humans and animals, that women like men with "status" and dominant personalities as this suggests good genes (this guy can do well if he wants too, and therefore my child will benefit form his genes).

And men like women who show fertility, readiness to mate and physical health. Read that as slutty, easy to pull and slim/fit.

You may like to think you are "different to the rest", somehow special in your own way, but I'm afraid you are not. You are a slave to the chemicals that nature and evolution gave you.

But we can all strive to be better than mere walking chemical factories. Some people go above and beyond, they selflessly do their jobs even if they might die, like people in warzones or charity workers who work for next to nothing in third world countries.

Some women choose good men, some men choose good women.

But flash a nice car or other status symbol or sign of dangerous masculinity at a girl high on hormones and you'll get somehwere.

Just remember, the period of time that humans have been alive is like a blip in the timeline of evolution up to this point. No matter of human desire or willpower can alter billions of years of evolution.

But try to be one of those who goes above and beyond. Be a nice guy, find a nice girl, do good things in your life for others and prove the human race is not a complete lost cause.

 

[Twitchy]

This has been going on for thousands of years.

Man gets pissed at woman. Man declares all women are (insert stereotype or slanderous accusation here).

Woman gets pissed at man. Woman declares all men are (insert stereotype or slanderous accusation here).

Good luck stopping it. If we don't get ***** slapped by a rogue meteor or similar catastrophe, expect another thousand years of the same stupidity.

Try to have some fun anyway. :/

 

[yamaha CS5]

I've been on this site for over a year and I keep hearing/seeing the same-old confusing tirade/lament from guys on here.

"women only like bad boys"

"women only like guys that treat them like honeysuckle"

"if i treated a woman like honeysuckle she'd stay but if i treated her nicely she'd leave"
(this one i actually heard from my brother during Thanksgiving o_o)

" Good guys alway come last."

And I am just....so confused here.

I don't really believe you have no idea where this is coming from. It's pretty obvious: this is true for a whole lot of women. When people say 'all', they are often exaggerating, I don't think that anyone who says this actually means that each and every women is like this.

People stereotype just about anything, don't get offended when men stereotype women. It even happens the other way around too, and when it does, I just think to myself, "well, if I were just dumped and were feeling like she's feeling right now, I'd say the same".

 

[h i]

i treat 'women' who i dont know personally and cant 'name', just like i treat 'men'. i want nothing to do with them if it doesnt benefit me. exceptions being friends, my mother, and relationships. i still do labor and gentlemen deeds for them; like heavy lifting when moving. cause i know their names, so theyre not just women... i dont have the desire to just be with a guy. we need something to focus our time on. a related interest. normally games, hobbies, work, school, women, bars, sports, etc. i use to be okay just being with women. cause hormones. its just natural. im not like that anymore. im not going to spend money for nothing. im not going to care about her problems. im not doing anything for her, if i dont get something first. shes just another person.