why, why do "nice guys" do this?

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

That means you're not attractive as a male. You're a good companion, but not an attractive man.

 

[Outcast]

All people wear a mask. Nobody is as fine as they wish to appear.

You often have to sort through the crazies to find the one person that truly matters.

 

[TheSkaFish]

That means you're not attractive as a male. You're a good companion, but not an attractive man.

Well, how do I change that? The obvious ones are I need to get a job and hobbies. But something tells me it's not that simple. My looks I'd say are neutral - they don't necessarily help me but they don't hurt me either. My experiences have made me a negative and angry person always expecting the worst, but then again, I keep getting proven right so acting any other way just doesn't make any sense to me.

This honeysuckle happens every time I meet a girl I like, same goddamn way every time:

1. we meet and start to talk a little bit

2. she warms up and we start having more regular conversation

3. we get to know each other and start really opening up, having long talks and laughing together. she starts saying a bunch of sweet things that make me feel like we're getting somewhere.

4. things start to slow down

5. I have to start all of the conversations

6. I start to get completely blown off. like i'll say "hi" and just get completely ignored. this is the part that really ******* aggravates the living hell out of me.

7. I beat my head against the nearest wall

I've been searching and searching to try and find the answers with this for years now, and nothing's changed. I'm at wit's end.

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

That means you're not attractive as a male. You're a good companion, but not an attractive man.

Well, how do I change that? The obvious ones are I need to get a job and hobbies. But something tells me it's not that simple. My looks I'd say are neutral - they don't necessarily help me but they don't hurt me either.

Well... I'm not sure. I mean, my life kinda went down the drains somehow... But, I can tell you this - fix whatever makes you feel "in charge", then go to girls and be in charge. It works.
I have a lot of things to do to solve that, you don't have as many. You don't necessarily need a hobby, but you should definitely get a job.

---

That means you're not attractive as a male. You're a good companion, but not an attractive man.

Well, how do I change that? The obvious ones are I need to get a job and hobbies. But something tells me it's not that simple. My looks I'd say are neutral - they don't necessarily help me but they don't hurt me either. My experiences have made me a negative and angry person always expecting the worst, but then again, I keep getting proven right so acting any other way just doesn't make any sense to me.

This honeysuckle happens every time I meet a girl I like, same goddamn way every time:

1. we meet and start to talk a little bit

2. she warms up and we start having more regular conversation

3. we get to know each other and start really opening up, having long talks and laughing together. she starts saying a bunch of sweet things that make me feel like we're getting somewhere.
....

And during the time she laughs and stuff, but before saying sweet things (sweet things are death kisses), you should touch her, show her you desire her, take the initiative from her, let her be what she is - a woman. You must be hot, not sweet.
And you know what's hot ? Feeling in charge. So fix whatever's keeping you from feeling in charge, from feeling "king of the world". If it's money, get money, if it's looks, hit the gym... and so on.
I mean... that's what I know. Personally I only need money and to hit the dentist.

 

[TheSkaFish]

But, I can tell you this - fix whatever makes you feel "in charge", then go to girls and be in charge. It works.
I have a lot of things to do to solve that, you don't have as many.

What do you mean by this? I mean, this is the root of the "girls like bad boys" thing. They can be crummy people, but they act in charge and that is a higher priority than being nice or sweet.

You say you have a lot of things to do to solve that, what do you mean? You have a lot of things that you are an expert on and thus in charge, or a lot of places you can go where you have a lot of influence, or what, exactly?

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

What do you mean by this? I mean, this is the root of the "girls like bad boys" thing. They can be crummy people, but they act in charge and that is a higher priority than being nice or sweet.

You say you have a lot of things to do to solve that, what do you mean? You have a lot of things that you are an expert on and thus in charge, or a lot of places you can go where you have a lot of influence, or what, exactly?

What I mean by this is that there's something that you need to have to feel in charge. You know what that something is for yourself, I do not. Get that something, or fix that something, and then BE in charge, don't act, BE.
I have to fix my teeth, fix my financial status, move the hell out of where I'm living, get a driver's license, get a car, get a bike(again), and then I'm in charge. I might be in charge even before that(only with the teeth, the money and the bike), it depends on when I get enraged by all this loneliness and go into psycho-nazi mode who only sees and cares about his goals and nothing else. These things I spoke about are not meant to impress girls, they are meant to give me my peace of mind and confidence(they're connected) so as I feel in charge, I feel like dominating the situation.
Now you understand what I mean ?

 

[ShybutHi]

Although this is a bit off topic from the original post, I feel the need to comment. I think you are sort of right in a way AnotherLonelyGuy. Even if you are a fairly shy guy and a really nice person, someone who is quite introverted, It seems to me that a lot of women out there like you to take initiative and it is those guys who do take some initiative who get the girl. (And certainly, any women out there on this forum, please add your input to these thoughts)

I think not taking initiative on things is one thing that a large majority of guys who can't get a partner, but have tried, lack... Even if they are one of the nicest guys in the world.
Some guys think they need to ask all the questions to please a potential partner and make sure everything is to a persons liking, which is great to a point, but it can seem like you are unsure of yourself and can't take initiative without having another person's input. This is just what I have observed and I am wondering if there could be some truth in it.

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

You don't. You just need to feel good with yourself. So fix whatever stops you from feeling good with yourself.
Asking girls stupid questions and talking about honeysuckle turns them off.
If you're scared, if you're not at ease with yourself, if you're not at ease with the environment you're in, you don't look hot to a woman, you look like a scared boy, it doesn't matter what age you are. So fix whatever makes you scared and uneasy.

 

[ardour]

And during the time she laughs and stuff, but before saying sweet things (sweet things are death kisses), you should touch her, show her you desire her, take the initiative from her, let her be what she is - a woman. You must be hot, not sweet.
And you know what's hot ? Feeling in charge. So fix whatever's keeping you from feeling in charge, from feeling "king of the world". If it's money, get money, if it's looks, hit the gym... and so on.
I mean... that's what I know. Personally I only need money and to hit the dentist.

All you're doing is re-enforcing obnoxious male role cliches. Why must a man always take the initiative, even in the face of unclear and easily deniable signals?

What Skafish is describing is sadly true, I feel his pain; we get on well for a while, and then suddenly she won't even say 'hi' any more. **** I've had that before. It's nothing to do with romantic attachment with me, although it might be in his case. I must simply say the wrong thing and they decide I'm not worth knowing, or they never liked me to begin with and got tired of putting on an act. Anyway it's nasty and dishonest. Women who behave that way need to be *called out on it*, not get proxy support from comments like yours.

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

And during the time she laughs and stuff, but before saying sweet things (sweet things are death kisses), you should touch her, show her you desire her, take the initiative from her, let her be what she is - a woman. You must be hot, not sweet.
And you know what's hot ? Feeling in charge. So fix whatever's keeping you from feeling in charge, from feeling "king of the world". If it's money, get money, if it's looks, hit the gym... and so on.
I mean... that's what I know. Personally I only need money and to hit the dentist.

All you're doing is re-enforcing obnoxious male role cliches. Why must a man always take the initiative, even in the face of unclear and easily deniable signals?

What Skafish is describing is sadly true, I feel his pain; we get on well for a while, and then suddenly she won't even say 'hi' any more. **** I've had that before. It's nothing to do romantic attachment with me, although it might be in his case. I must simply say the wrong thing and they decide I'm not worth knowing, or they never liked me to begin and got tired of putting on an act. Anyway it's nasty and dishonest. Women who behave that way need to be *called out on it*, not get proxy support from comments like yours.

There's no support here for women. You fail to understand that when you're dominating the scene because you have what you need to feel like you own the place, it doesn't really matter what the woman wants anymore. It only matters what you want. And even if she would reject you, you wouldn't care, 'cause your well being isn't coming from her, it comes from something else.

Why do you people insist on try to get girls by having a nice little discussion about crap ? Has that ever worked for you ? For me it didn't, so I just say some honeysuckle, funny honeysuckle if something funny comes to mind, get close, make a little bit of fun of her, make a little bit of fun of me, touch her, play with her, and at some point, kiss her.

Or at least I used to before I became a basement-dwelling skinny unattractive rat.

 

[Peaches]

Why do you say that you find yourself in this position a lot?

Also I find myself in the position that these guys you meet are in. I'll meet these girls and we'll have things in common and are able to get along and talk for a while and they will act like they enjoy talking to me. They act like they enjoy having me in their lives. But I'm never able to create a real relationship, I'm never able to build anything more than that - just talking.

I am sure you are much more normal than these guys but still, perhaps these girls are not the right people for a relationship. Did you try - I mean, not 'try - try' but put that part of yourself forward - to make yourself interesting? Women love guys who do their stuff and are unapologetic about it. You are a good-looking guy even if your profile pic probably doesn[t show your most mature side perhaps you like only girls who don't like you?

---

That means you're not attractive as a male. You're a good companion, but not an attractive man.

Well, how do I change that? The obvious ones are I need to get a job and hobbies. But something tells me it's not that simple. My looks I'd say are neutral - they don't necessarily help me but they don't hurt me either. My experiences have made me a negative and angry person always expecting the worst, but then again, I keep getting proven right so acting any other way just doesn't make any sense to me.

This honeysuckle happens every time I meet a girl I like, same goddamn way every time:

1. we meet and start to talk a little bit

2. she warms up and we start having more regular conversation

3. we get to know each other and start really opening up, having long talks and laughing together. she starts saying a bunch of sweet things that make me feel like we're getting somewhere.

this is very interesting, to spice that up have you tried around 3 to get some other interest? I mean, exactly at the time when you probably think about her all the time, do something to occupy your mind? Behave a tad unexpectedly? Not saying to play hard to get, mind me, but still not be 110% available? Do some nice unexpected gestures but then don't be too "present"? If you are honestly busy with something, that is the best thing. Well, yes, hobbies are good for you. I have no idea of how you act with these girls, but as you read about the clingy guy and thought about yourself perhaps you feel some kind of connection, that means you know in some way what you think is going wrong.

 

[AnotherLonelyGuy]

... Women love guys who do their stuff and are unapologetic about it. ...

= guys that dominate the scene and are in charge.

Thank you for saying it differently.

 

[ardour]

this is very interesting, to spice that up have you tried around 3 to get some other interest? I mean, exactly at the time when you probably think about her all the time, do something to occupy your mind? Behave a tad unexpectedly? Not saying to play hard to get, mind me, but still not be 110% available? Do some nice unexpected gestures but then don't be too "present"? If you are honestly busy with something, that is the best thing. Well, yes, hobbies are good for you. I have no idea of how you act with these girls, but as you read about the clingy guy and thought about yourself perhaps you feel some kind of connection, that means you know in some way what you think is going wrong.

None of that justifies why someone who appeared quite friendly should suddenly stop saying "hello". It's rude beyond belief.

 

[murmi97]

... Women love guys who do their stuff and are unapologetic about it. ...

= guys that dominate the scene and are in charge.

Thank you for saying it differently.

Not necessarily, yeah domination is an opposite of not doing stuff and being apologetic. But autonomy and competence are also opposites in my view. Attractive men that do stuff (mostly while creating rather than destroying) become even more attractive. That is just as likely what she meant as what you said.

 

[ardour]

There's no support here for women. You fail to understand that when you're dominating the scene because you have what you need to feel like you own the place, it doesn't really matter what the woman wants anymore. It only matters what you want. And even if she would reject you, you wouldn't care, 'cause your well being isn't coming from her, it comes from something else.

Why do you people insist on try to get girls by having a nice little discussion about crap ? Has that ever worked for you ? For me it didn't, so I just say some honeysuckle, funny honeysuckle if something funny comes to mind, get close, make a little bit of fun of her, make a little bit of fun of me, touch her, play with her, and at some point, kiss her.

Opinions like this depress the hell out of me, it's like staring into a dark abyss. So women find a man's full humanity unattractive. Only through being aggressive and pretending you don't give a honeysuckle will you have a chance.
Just great. You can have that point of view.

 

[Zett]

So women find a man's full humanity unattractive. Only through being aggressive and pretending you don't give a honeysuckle will you have a chance.
Just great. You can have that point of view.

It's not about pretending or being aggressive, it's about being invested in yourself. If you value yourself to the point where your happiness is dependent on your own identity (ie. being happy with yourself) and not someone else's opinion you'll be in a position of strength that is both attractive and emotionally stable.

When you're happy with yourself and I mean that and not deluded which seems to be the way a lot of people picture the kind of person that attracts a woman, you are just not going to be desperate. You aren't going to obsess over one person and you will be prepared to move on if it doesn't work out.

That is symptomatic of being well with yourself and I think that's why so many guys find it so hard to get out of the trap they're in. They're too concerned with faking the behavior of a person who is happy with themselves instead of addressing the root concern which is the fact that their self esteem is not where it needs to be. This is why I stress that it's about the root issue and not the symptomatic concern. You are the way you are because of your internal beliefs. If you think you're incompetent you will display symptoms of this belief. The way you speak, the way you act, the way you interpret is all connected to these roots.

You can be happy with yourself and still be a nice guy. I'm pretty happy with myself but I don't sit here being a jerk to women because I think it'll attract them. I give my opinion out freely without concern of someone's validation and if they like how I think we connect. My last relationship started because I wasn't afraid to tell the girl I was interested in that I liked her and I was prepared to move on if it didn't work out. The misconception that guys have to be jerks to attract the opposite sex needs to be destroyed once and for all really.

 

[ardour]

It's not about pretending or being aggressive, it's about being invested in yourself. If you value yourself to the point where your happiness is dependent on your own identity (ie. being happy with yourself) and not someone else's opinion you'll be in a position of strength that is both attractive and emotionally stable.

When you're happy with yourself and I mean that and not deluded which seems to be the way a lot of people seems to picture the kind of person that attracts a woman, you are just not going to be desperate. You aren't going to obsess over one person and you will be prepared to move on if it doesn't work out.

That is symptomatic of being well with yourself and I think that's why so many guys find it so hard to get out of the trap they're in. They're too concerned with faking the behavior of a person who is happy with themselves instead of addressing the root concern which is the fact that their self esteem is not where it needs to be. This is why I stress that it's about the root issue and not the symptomatic concern. You are the way you are because of your internal beliefs. If you think you're incompetent you will display symptoms of this belief. The way you speak, the way you act is all connected to these roots.

You can be happy with yourself and still be a nice guy...

So you might ask then, if it's healthy to be happy alone then why bother seeking out a partner at all? This reasoning seems self-defeating; you're only fit to have something when you don't want it. But if you allow yourself attachment to another then caring about what they think is unavoidable, since it's that that will determine whether there's any relationship. Part of your self-esteem is going to be in their hands, there's no other possibility unless you genuinely don't care for or even like them that much (obviously not ideal.)

 

[Zett]

So you might ask then, if it's healthy to be happy alone then why bother seeking out a partner at all? This reasoning seems self-defeating; you're only fit to have something when you don't want it. But if you allow yourself attachment to another then caring about what they think is unavoidable, since it's that that will determine whether there's any relationship. Part of your self-esteem is going to be in their hands, I don't see any other possibility unless you genuinely don't care for or even like the person you're with (not ideal)

Being happy with myself doesn't mean that I want to be alone for the rest of my life. I understand if I meet the right person I can have an even more fulfilling life but it also means that for people to come into my world they need to qualify to some degree on a level of compatibility that I'm not willing to lower my standards for. If I never meet such a person so be it.

But yes, once this person enters my life a part of me is going to be invested and that's why I'm not willing to give that investment up so easily at the slightest hint of attention or attraction. Because it'll empower them to hurt me but I think that is the price that you have to pay if you want to be committed in a relationship. I'm still reeling from the blow of the last one but it doesn't make me afraid of meeting someone new because I know I can pick myself up if it fails.

 

[ardour]

Someone who's compatible will have MORE power to hurt you since you'll naturally have higher expectations for the relationship. In the end if you'll be taking a chance no matter who it is, sailing through it all in a state of detachment isn't going to happen.

 

[Zett]

Someone who's compatible will have MORE power to hurt you since you'll naturally have higher expectations for the relationship. In the end if you'll be taking a chance no matter who it is, sailing through it all in a state of detachment isn't going to happen.

That's right and because I believe in myself I'm not worried about the fall that may happen because I know exactly how to pick myself up.