I apologize if I wasn't entirely clear. I was /extremely/ rushed with my last post, practically buzzing on caffiene and an empty stomach, and had to get to an appointment.
The tl/dr of it is this:
people are unreliable narrators and lie to you and themselves - that is, if they even knew the truth of their actions in the first place.
Just as businesses must rely on other metrics besides customer feedback if they want to maximize their relationship with customers, heterosexual men should also rely on feedback besides what they hear from women. Because when it comes down to it, people as a whole lie - to themselves and to others - and are extremely poor judges of themselves.
Dr. Daniel Gilbert said:
“…if you are like most people, then like most people, you don’t know you’re like most people. Science has given us a lot of facts about the average person, and one of the most reliable of these facts is that the average person doesn’t see herself as average. Most students see themselves as more intelligent than the average student, most business managers see themselves as more competent than the average business manager, and most football players see themselves as having better ‘football sense’ than their teammates. Ninety percent of motorists consider themselves to be safer-than-average drivers, and 94 percent of college professors consider themselves to be better-than-average teachers..."
Stumbling on Happiness, Page 252
You cannot, therefore, entirely rely on women to tell you about why they got into a relationship or what attracted them, because you are going through at least two levels of obscurity: not only does she not entirely understand her behavior, but afterward, she will self-justify and redefine previous actions to reinforce her identity. And when she retells it, she may further mangle the truth in the telling to subtract negative components.
I'll use a concrete example myself, and even here realize that I am the unreliable narrator. When I was younger, I had sex with a friend of a girl who I was essentially "dating"; this makes me a cheat. Why did I sleep with K? The truth is probably that I was sexual, I was being irresponsible, and the importance of a few moment's pleasure and ego-reinforcement of having essentially two girls on a tether was amazing. I also cared for K, and in some warped way, felt like I was just returning her attraction.
What will I tell people? Mostly that K was insecure and that she seduced me, that she was suicidal and just wanted to make her feel better. This casts me, basically, as the hero of my story.
What did K tell people, when it came out? That she just wanted a kiss, someone to acknowledge her feminity, and that I then took it too far. This casts her the hero of her story.
In both cases, we are extremely unreliable narrators, even before we begin to twist the story to represent ourselves as the good, wronged party.
So yes, ultimately, do listen to other guys about women - especially if they are successful with women in a manner that you want to be, then by all means, try to associate with them as much as possible. Whatever they are doing, they are probably doing right - whether they can consciously enunciate it or not. In truth, the unconscious and automatic learning we get from just being around someone is nearly as valuable as organized instruction.
Lonesome Crow, I would tell you to grow up, but I think you're emotionally and intellectually stunted. In that case, please accept my apologies for being harsh on you as I had expectations of you being as intelligent as most others and you do have my sincere pity for your current condition.
