Oversupply of men = good ?

I'm sorry, if this subject or my take on it is too controversial, but I'm really curious what you guys & gals think about it.

I guess, almost everyone is aware of the oversupply of potential male partners in the West. By potential partners I mean people, who want to find someone for a relation leading to marriage or at least a harmonious long-term relation.
Obviously there're different grades of "want" (from "wouldn't mind" to "desperate"), but in (almost?) every "grade" you'll find a ridiculous oversupply of men. Perhaps, except the grade "wouldn't mind".

I'm pretty sure, that the reason No.1 for this oversupply of men is that women get to keep children upon divorce / separation. (I know, there are some good reasons for this, especially the fact that a man doesn’t need to bear the hardships of pregnancy, besides the emotional involvement and taking care of his wife/partner.)
One of the two strongest instincts is procreation. But unlike the most animals, people desire not only give to next generation their genes, but also their knowledge, their love, their very soul. They long to imprint their offspring with their spiritual essence.

Now take a look at these figures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parent#Demographics

Sure, the most single parents, be it men or women, wish to find a like-minded partner / spouse. But *on average* the grade of desperation to find someone is definitely goes down quite a bit - at very least in case of women (men may feel more pressure to find a partner, for example, because the society may be more judgmental towards them, if they sacrifice career to stay at home to take care of children and live off social welfare).

One way to look at this is that an oversupply of men leads to a tough competition for men, which in turn ensures that only the best and the most motivated can procreate. The least attractive (in some/any way), the least motivated, the losers stay alone and can't procreate, OR give their genes to the next generation BUT can't give a piece of their mind/heart. Evolution at its finest.

There's nothing wrong about it... I mean, you just need to try harder, right?
Then I read stories, where guys mention trying really hard and still being alone, or even virgin at 57.
Then, maybe some people are just not meant to be happy, so what... I mean, you're a man, deal with it! Right?

Because you are focusing on men with this one, I will stick to that....HOWEVER, in a disclaimer sense, what I say also applies to women.

Not everyone wants to procreate. Practice, sure, but actually do so, not so much. Not everyone wants kids either, so for a single mother to go out looking for men, their chances are limited further by the men that do NOT want to have anything to do with children.
You also have men who don't want to get into a serious relationship, preferring to stay a bachelor and see how many notches they can get on their bedpost. Aside from those, you have the men with extremely high standards that they won't lower, which leaves about 2% (this is just a number, i don't have facts, don't ask for them) of the single population for them to date. Yes, you will have looks come into it from a lot of different people, but beauty is subjective, so there are people out there for everyone.
As far the "trying really hard" thing, it is possible to try TOO hard. Put too much pressure on yourself and start in with the negativity and it will project outward and make you less appealing.
You also have those that are too scared to approach girls because they fear rejection.
Onto the whole "not meant to be happy" thing, I don't think that's true in the way you said it, but I do think it's true in another sense. When someone dwells on something so long, they will think they aren't meant to be happy and nothing seems to change their minds. They live in their own little world, believing only what THEY want to believe and nothing anyone says seems to change that. Eventually, they may see what they are doing and start changing their ways, but until that happens, chances are good they they won't be happy.

Except solo parents aren't necessarily single since men they're dating don't always move in and take on a parenting role, so the conclusion that there must be more men than women out there looking for partners is questionable.

There's meant to be a "man-drought" over here ("drought" of desirable guys of course...).

@ TheRealCallie
Hm… that’s not really off-topic, but slightly off-tangent that I hoped for.
So let me ask you:
1. Do you agree that there’s a much higher number of men (compared to women) looking for a partner in the West (overall)? I mean, just look at the threads/posts in this section… And this forum feels gender-neutral, doesn't cater mostly for men.
2. Assuming that you agree with 1., what do you think are the most important factors contributing to this imbalance?
3. Assuming that you agree with 1., how do you feel about this imbalance and its possible consequences? Does it feel right, healthy for the western society as whole long-term?

Brightshadow said:

@ TheRealCallie
Hm… that’s not really off-topic, but slightly off-tangent that I hoped for.
So let me ask you:
1. Do you agree that there’s a much higher number of men (compared to women) looking for a partner in the West (overall)? I mean, just look at the threads/posts in this section… And this forum feels gender-neutral, doesn't cater mostly for men.
2. Assuming that you agree with 1., what do you think are the most important factors contributing to this imbalance?
3. Assuming that you agree with 1., how do you feel about this imbalance and its possible consequences? Does it feel right, healthy for the western society as whole long-term?

Click to expand...

Do I agree that there are more men than women? Well, no, not really. You mentioned that there are more men than women here talking about not being alone, but I think (and I don't mean any offense to men) that some men just think that because some guys have it so easy that they think it should be easy for everyone. This also applies to women, but for some reason, I think men are more comfortable talking about it here than other places.


I can't really find statistics for this that are recent (didn't look very hard, as I'm doing other, more important stuff right now), but in 2010 there is this.
"44.9% of the unmarried population aged 18 and older are female. For every 100 unmarried women there are 88 unmarried men. -U.S. Census Bureau"

Then there's this graph from 2012.

TheRealCallie said:

Do I agree that there are more men than women? Well, no, not really. You mentioned that there are more men than women here talking about not being alone, but I think (and I don't mean any offense to men) that some men just think that because some guys have it so easy that they think it should be easy for everyone. This also applies to women, but for some reason, I think men are more comfortable talking about it here than other places.

Click to expand...

And… Is it a good or a bad thing?
Also, are you saying that the ratio here is much off (compared to the actual numbers of men/women, who strongly wish to find a partner in the West) ?

I was not talking about the percentages of single men/women (I knew that there’re even slightly more women in the West in general), but about the ones among them, who are actually looking for a partner, or (and even more importantly) men and woman with about equally strong wish to find a partner.

Why would it be a bad thing? I personally think more people should open up about how they are feeling and be more vocal about what they want. When you keep things locked inside, it tends to fester and make it worse, so no, it's not a bad thing at all.

There are 20,000 members registered here. The majority of those are not active. Of those that are active, it is not a good representation of how many are single and wanting to find a relationship. A lot of people come here because they have problems with being lonely, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they want (or don't have) a relationship, they could just want friends. Of those here that are looking for relationships, many have issues with low self esteem or social anxiety that prevents them from actively seeking out what they really want. The fear of rejection does a lot to set them back in this department. Again, this also applies to women. Just because you have a few guys here talking about wanting and not being able to find a relationship doesn't mean that there aren't just as many women. They are there, I just think people tend to overlook them because it's more the "norm" for women to discuss it than men.

Not following your logic, and going to just stop and say: How does men not keeping the children after divorce remove them from the "supply"? Single dads date and remarry.

where are all these men? In years I have met maybe… 5 single guys?

Age has a lot to do with availability as well.
The older you are, the more difficult it gets - but it has always been difficult for me.

@ TheRealCallie
Is there any forum/community at all (or at least among gender neutral places, the ones that don’t cater especially to women’s hobbies/interests), where women express their wish to have a partner more often than men (proportionally to their activity in the community in general)? Good, forget about “more often”, let’s say at least half as often?
My impression of the oversupply of men looking for a partner isn’t based just on A.L.L.

From what I’ve encountered so far about anywhere, the vast majority of women discussing the “Relationships” topic are either in a relation, but have various problems, or just want to bash certain men, or come in just to say that they’re disappointed to the point of not wanting to look for partner. It’s a rather rare sight that a woman laments not being able to find a man (or not being found).

On the topic of being picky: To me it doesn’t seem like men are pickier, but it’s arguable. Being picky often comes with being in a position, where you can be picky.


@ Tealeaf
As I said in my first post, men may be in a slightly different situation. I'm not sure if they're more or less likely to keep looking for a partner once they become a single parent. Also, it's just my hypothesis, but they may be more appealing to women looking for a marriage or a long-term relation (especially if they have children too), because their resolve to take responsibility makes a good impression and also because they're rare.

But, and this is true for the both genders,
1) they're busier (for an obvious reason) and
2) their life is likely to feel more fulfilled (compared to the lonely guys/gals)


@ Peaches
I'm sorry to hear this, maybe it's just bad luck...

Brightshadow said:

Is there any forum/community at all (or at least among gender neutral places, the ones that don’t cater especially to women’s hobbies/interests), where women express their wish to have a partner more often than men (proportionally to their activity in the community in general)? Good, forget about “more often”, let’s say at least half as often?

Click to expand...

Yes, HERE and everywhere else. Have a look around. You'll find it. You just seem to be focusing on the men.

Brightshadow said:

From what I’ve encountered so far about anywhere, the vast majority of women discussing the “Relationships” topic are either in a relation, but have various problems, or just want to bash certain men, or come in just to say that they’re disappointed to the point of not wanting to look for partner. It’s a rather rare sight that a woman laments not being able to find a man (or not being found).

Click to expand...

Again, are you really looking that hard to find that women discuss it JUST as often, if not more than men? Sometimes, they aren't put in their own threads, sometimes they are simply just a thought in the thinking thread or a post in another thread expressing their own similarities to the OP.
I've given up looking for a man. Granted, my reasons are more than what you are indicating, but I'm still not looking. My reasons, however, are my own, and I will not discuss it.

Brightshadow said:

On the topic of being picky: To me it doesn’t seem like men are pickier, but it’s arguable. Being picky often comes with being in a position, where you can be picky.

Click to expand...

As I said in my first post, because you are focusing on men, I went with it, but everything I said applies just as much to women. No, being picky does NOT mean you are necessarily in a position to be picky, which is another problem with some people not being able to find anyone. When they put so much emphasis on what the other person HAS to have, they miss out on many opportunities, making it harder for them to find anyone in the first place. Although, one might wonder whether they are so picky so they can't find anyone, thus not having to deal with rejection.

Brightshadow said:

Is there any forum/community at all (or at least among gender neutral places, the ones that don’t cater especially to women’s hobbies/interests), where women express their wish to have a partner more often than men (proportionally to their activity in the community in general)? Good, forget about “more often”, let’s say at least half as often?
My impression of the oversupply of men looking for a partner isn’t based just on A.L.L.

Click to expand...

Anecdotal experience does not equal data. If you want to find out whether there are more potential male partners than potential female partners, why don't you check websites with factual data like US Census figures for this information?
Also, you mentioned that you believe this is an issue in the West (western cultures? western US?)
Are you aware that there has been a one child policy in China since the 1970s and since families often prefer male babies over female babies - well guess which gender outnumbers the other in China these days?
If you're having difficulty finding a partner these days, welcome to the club. However, I'm not certain that issue can be easily distilled down to "there are more single available men than single available women".

-Teresa

TheRealCallie said:

Yes, HERE and everywhere else. Have a look around. You'll find it. You just seem to be focusing on the men.

Click to expand...

Again, are you really looking that hard to find that women discuss it JUST as often, if not more than men? Sometimes, they aren't put in their own threads, sometimes they are simply just a thought in the thinking thread or a post in another thread expressing their own similarities to the OP.

Click to expand...

I don’t know, that sounds a bit hostile.
All I’m doing is stating my impression. You can state your impression, we can’t disagree, but that’s not problem, right? (I don’t have the numbers, you don’t have the numbers either. As mentioned above, I don’t mean the numbers of people who are single, so *theoretically* they could look for partners, or even be desperately looking).
Instead you’re talking half of the time about me, how I’m not looking right, what I’m doing wrong, etc.

I wouldn’t mind to count a bit to prove that I’m not completely blind or looking through some very strange glasses, but that sounds silly.

One thing I would like to mention though is, that I’ve read every single post in "All the single people..all the single people." (besides few off-topic repeating discussions), and I’d estimate the ratio of women’s ads to men’s ads about 1 to 2 or lower, yet some of the women said that they’re looking just for friends (IIRC there were not as many men saying this, at least perceptually). Would you agree with me at least about the ratio in this thread?

On the “picky” topic:
Me: Being picky often comes with being in a position, where you can be picky.
You: No, being picky does NOT mean you are necessarily in a position to be picky, which is another problem with some people not being able to find anyone.

I see no contradiction.


@ SofiasMami

Me: My impression of the oversupply of men looking for a partner isn’t based just on A.L.L.
You: Anecdotal experience does not equal data.

If you have a different impression, you’re very welcome to post it.
Please re-read my first post in this thread (or read it, if you didn’t yet). I doubt that US Census figures would help.

By “West” I mean the former.

I can’t say much about China. Unfortunately, I don’t even speak Chinese. It’s quite possible, that there is an “oversupply” (in sense I meant it in all my posts, including the first one) in China too, but that’s beside the point. I never said that it’s limited to the West, but (some of) the reasons may be different.

SofiasMami said:

However, I'm not certain that issue can be easily distilled down to "there are more single available men than single available women".

Click to expand...

I can only agree Actually, I’m pretty sure that theoretical availability doesn’t really help, if we don’t consider how many of these people of each gender (roughly) are actually looking for a partner, and how many are less motivated to look for various reasons.

Brightshadow said:

TheRealCallie said:

Yes, HERE and everywhere else. Have a look around. You'll find it. You just seem to be focusing on the men.

Click to expand...

Again, are you really looking that hard to find that women discuss it JUST as often, if not more than men? Sometimes, they aren't put in their own threads, sometimes they are simply just a thought in the thinking thread or a post in another thread expressing their own similarities to the OP.

Click to expand...

I don’t know, that sounds a bit hostile.
All I’m doing is stating my impression. You can state your impression, we can’t disagree, but that’s not problem, right? (I don’t have the numbers, you don’t have the numbers either. As mentioned above, I don’t mean the numbers of people who are single, so *theoretically* they could look for partners, or even be desperately looking).
Instead you’re talking half of the time about me, how I’m not looking right, what I’m doing wrong, etc.

I wouldn’t mind to count a bit to prove that I’m not completely blind or looking through some very strange glasses, but that sounds silly.

One thing I would like to mention though is, that I’ve read every single post in "All the single people..all the single people." (besides few off-topic repeating discussions), and I’d estimate the ratio of women’s ads to men’s ads about 1 to 2 or lower, yet some of the women said that they’re looking just for friends (IIRC there were not as many men saying this, at least perceptually). Would you agree with me at least about the ratio in this thread?

On the “picky” topic:
Me: Being picky often comes with being in a position, where you can be picky.
You: No, being picky does NOT mean you are necessarily in a position to be picky, which is another problem with some people not being able to find anyone.

I see no contradiction.

Click to expand...

I'm not being hostile at all and I'm sorry if you took it that way, I'm just trying to tell you that there are more women here that want relationships than you are seeing. I know this because I've been around since 2010, regardless of what my current account says. I know there are just as many women looking because I've seen the threads and posts over the years. I also know quite a few relationships that have come from members of this forum.
As to the single people thread, while I have posted (not looking for a man) in that thread, I can't really say I've really read the whole thing because I don't wish to read the whole thing, so I can't say what's in it.

There is a contradiction in the way we each wrote about being picky. To say that you CAN be picky means that you can get anyone without really trying. Whereas, what I wrote is saying that BECAUSE people are being extremely picky, they don't give anyone a chance, thus having a higher percentage of chances to fail at finding someone. See the difference or should I explain it better?

There's still no contradiction in my eyes, these 2 statements don't exclude each other.

I used "often", so obviously it doesn't equal to "picky <= in position to be picky". Indeed, as you mentioned, some people are picky, even though they might have been better off, if they were not.

Also, while English is not my first language, I still think that "a position, where you can be picky" doesn't necessary mean a position where you can get ANYONE. Having a much bigger choice to select from, select a few, disregard the rest seems to be a more likely interpretation.

On the "All the single people..all the single people." thread:
I was bored enough to actually count: W = 33 , M = 82 (83 with me)
This doesn't include people who clearly stated that they look only for friends (these were just a few anyway). I may have missed one or two or put in a wrong category, but it wouldn't change the overall picture.
Also, I've noticed that up to 10 or 20 the ratio was at least somewhat balanced.

Brightshadow said:

On the "All the single people..all the single people." thread:
I was bored enough to actually count: W = 33 , M = 82 (83 with me)
This doesn't include people who clearly stated that they look only for friends (these were just a few anyway). I may have missed one or two or put in a wrong category, but it wouldn't change the overall picture.

Click to expand...

I'd advise you to get your data somewhere other than this site.
I've actually noted (and made threads/posts) that men here are way more likely to talk about these kinds of issues than women here, on the forum. Most people here on the forum seem to agree with that (from what I could tell). No one has really been able to determine why this is. I've been around (save for a few months) since 2008. I know, and have spoken with, MANY men and women on this forum. It supports my theory that women are less likely to post about the issue than men.
So, it's not likely an accurate picture you are getting from the "single people" thread.
Just my two cents.

---

Brightshadow said:

Also, while English is not my first language, I still think that "a position, where you can be picky" doesn't necessary mean a position where you can get ANYONE. Having a much bigger choice to select from, select a few, disregard the rest seems to be a more likely interpretation.

Click to expand...

I think it's just syntax.

Muchas gracias for your two cents

EveWasFramed said:

I'd advise you to get your data somewhere other than this site.

Click to expand...

Um Gottes Willen! >.<
( For heaven's sake! )

I wouldn't post the list, even if someone challenged my numbers... I mean, even here on this site.

I've actually noted (and made threads/posts) that men here are way more likely to talk about these kinds of issues than women here, on the forum. Most people here on the forum seem to agree with that (from what I could tell). No one has really been able to determine why this is. I've been around (save for a few months) since 2008. I know, and have spoken with, MANY men and women on this forum. It supports my theory that women are less likely to post about the issue than men.
So, it's not likely an accurate picture you are getting from the "single people" thread.
Just my two cents.

Click to expand...

I wonder, would they at least PM a man, if they liked his post, or would it also be much less likely to happen for the same (or another) reason?
If the latter is true, then a rather shy guy doesn't have many chances...

Also, do you think that whatever stops women from posting on this topic is so strong, that such a huge difference in numbers can be attributed to this "negative" force alone, or is it still likely that being less interested plays some role as well?

Brightshadow said:

I wonder, would they at least PM a man, if they liked his post, or would it also be much less likely to happen for the same (or another) reason?
If the latter is true, then a rather shy guy doesn't have many chances...

Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself - yes, I'd PM a man (and certainly have) if I liked their post or thought I could offer some advice, etc.
I'm pretty sure other women would (and certainly have).

Brightshadow said:

Also, do you think that whatever stops women from posting on this topic is so strong, that such a huge difference in numbers can be attributed to this "negative" force alone, or is it still likely that being less interested plays some role as well?

Click to expand...

I actually don't think it's a "negative" force that keeps women more silent than men here (on that particular topic). I think it simply comes down to personality of women versus men (most, not all). So yes, I'd say a person's personality is definitely "strong' enough to keep them more quiet on certain topics.
I'm sure there are many reasons why people don't post about it. I have a feeling pain may be the biggest deterrent.
But again, these are just my opinions, (as a female and) based on my observations and conversations on this forum, and other places (and in real life) may or may not follow the trend I've seen here.

Also, there are those that choose to discuss it in the chat room, as opposed to the forum