Incels - A Symptom of Sick Social System

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michael2

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This video is a pretty good watch, but it articulates what I've been saying for a while...

Incels are men with serious mental health issues that are the product of a sick social system.

Quick example to illustrate this. At my job one guy is designated with the task of restocking all the store's inventory. As the store grew and sold more and more merchandise, this one guy became overwhelmed by the increase of merchandise that needed to be put away everyday. Unable to keep up and overwhelmed his attitude soured. He started to clash with other store employees and even did things like block key isles with merchandise he was unable to stock as sort of a way of venting his frustration and anger. It was a clear cry for help.

When I brought this up to management, their response was "he needs to stop complaining, work harder, and do his job." It was completely unsympathetic and showed a total disregard to the new, harsh, seemingly insurmountable situation the employee was facing.

The same can be said of incels. Their rise and anger is the product of a broken social system that refuses to acknowledge or sympathize with their plight. Because they are men fueled by testosterone, they're statistically more likely to lash out in a dangerous, violent way. The sad part that gets overlooked is most of this violence is directed inward. Suicide is very real and disturbingly common among incels. While their attacks against women are highlighted almost nothing is said about how many of these men are committing suicide, because like the stocker at my store, people simply don't care. And incels are acutely aware of that.

The core issue is with the advent of social media and dating apps most women can now get male attention or even sex quite easily - from a small percentage of "high value" men" but most "low value" men can't, with any woman. This has created a disturbing discrepancy between how many women can find attention/sex vs how many men can find attention/sex. Not to mention a huge increase in STDs, but that's another topic. There's countless studies about how men handle being single worse then women, and so on. Basically, for most men to be mentally healthy, they need a female partner in their life.

Inceldom is a serious mental health issue. There's too many people writing it off as 'weird, crazy loner men'. To illustrate lets say one day you noticed on your body large black bumps filled with puss. Would you simply say 'ewww!' and try to pop the bumps or even just ignore them? Or would you be concerned in what caused the bumps in the first place, what was the underlining illness that caused them to form? You see, dismissing incels with 'ewww! go away!' is not treating the underlining problem. Doing so will not fix the situation and it likely will get worse.

The sad part is because incels are primarily men the issue will get little to no attention. Everyone is so concerned with women that men have largely been forgotten. Everyone knows most suicides are men, but people really don't care and little is done about it because its men, and men are suppose to just toughen up and deal with their problems.

So, what is the solution to incels?

This is where it gets sad. I honestly think nothing can be done. There's no way to roll back apps that promote hookup culture. No way to censor or shut down social medial that allows women to objectify themselves for attention. No way to shut down porn that men can pay for to have a woman pretend to be their girlfriend.

What faces the world is a bleak future of single, unhappy men and women, along with declining populations leading to economic ruin. Not to mention increasingly frequent violent attacks on the general population by angry lonely men.

But...if I were to try and do something to fix this, I would give huge tax breaks and incentives to couples who marry in their 20s. Basically try and get younger people to commit to eachother. By doing that you take more people off the market so there isnt as many choices for men or women which will force prospectors to be less picky in choosing a mate. Also by encouraging people to settle down with a marriage partner earlier you increase the chances of them having more children, which helps the population. Basically something has to be done to get more people to marry younger. The whole thing about making more women career workers who dont marry and have children sounded so cool and contemporary on paper but its been a complete failure that has caused all kinds of chaos.

This won't completely solve the problem, but solutions like that and something similar will be enough to avert whats coming. Disaster.
 

Cherubino

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I lived my youth in a country with no access to prostitutes ... why do you guys from Western world complain ... are they that expensive? ... you are not aware you are so much luckier than in other parts of the world
 

TheRealCallie

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I lived my youth in a country with no access to prostitutes ... why do you guys from Western world complain ... are they that expensive? ... you are not aware you are so much luckier than in other parts of the world
Everything is expensive in America. lol

Well, unless you go with the crackwhores, who just want to make money for more drugs and will take anything. :)
 

Cherubino

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ok but a pu*** is a pu*** no matter who is the owner ... and if you want something more expensive then you got a meaning in life which is the core of the problem actually ... instead of working for a family you do it for pu*** if you genuinely love them 🐈
 

M_also_lonely

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So, what is the solution to incels?
This question is quite similar to the feminist fantasy of equal outcome. Sounds good in theory, but disastrous in reality. Sadly, having equal outcomes for all men or outcomes of very similar levels for all men is going to be impractical. The reason being that there is going to be a hierarchy of values. In-fact, hierarchy of values is a necessity if we do not live in an ideal world.

Generally, we tend to think that a linear graph is how most processes could be determined. But that's the opposite of truth. Most things work non linearly. The ideal is not the exponential, the ideal is the linear.

This reminds me of a conversation I was having with an old friend based on Kevin Samuel's video. "If a normal, young adult woman would enter a room full of 100 men and ask for a session of casual sex, how many men would be interested?" We know that in most cases, the answer would be at least be around 80%.
What would be the % if the sexes were reversed?

The friend answered, "Ummm 40-50%?"

She's not wrong. As men, we know that the real answer would be no more than 5% in reversed case, but her answer is not wrong from her perspective. Because for women, 90% of the men, do not even exist. They are INVISIBLE. Women pass through them without realizing their existence. The 50% that she claims is the 50% of what's visible to her, the possibly eligible ones. She can't care about the mental state of the invisible ones because she is oblivious to the idea that a significantly higher number of men do not get a shred of emotion, intimacy, or even attention. We all have been through that painful journey and are expected to love them as normal when we become eligible.

Solution....
Hmm...

The solution would be to minimize the bias as much as we can, which can be done in multiple ways. The most straightforward would be to get men to become more ambitious and masculine and help them rise in the social system. And it isn't possible by simply telling them. In some cases, they will have to be pushed and their morale will have to be maintained.
And masculinity is a consequence of adversity. You can't manufacture masculine men and keep them relevant in every scenario. Value demands context.
Another idea is a completely broken society full of violence and disorder whose moral systems have been abandoned. In such situations, men's masculinity and social will increase out of dire need.
 

maybetrollingmaybenot

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Cool. But even I got too old to care about these identity politics things, the people who engage in that incelhate deserve to be trolled.

Now that I'm thinking about it...I should sign up on reddit despite being banned and start a thread explaining how I've married with the sole purpose to cheat on my wife with 17 years old girl: "Look, 17 is legal where I live, I married her because it turns me on to talk to her over the phone lying I'm at work while this young girl is giving me bl***job".
 

NoxApex(N/A)

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ok but a pu*** is a pu*** no matter who is the owner ... and if you want something more expensive then you got a meaning in life which is the core of the problem actually ... instead of working for a family you do it for pu*** if you genuinely love them 🐈

I think that the question which remains to be answered is what is truly the value of pu*** if you have no interest in kids and the family life, and, does love actually exist?

Sex is great, don't get me wrong, I love sex.
But it can also seriously **** up your life.
Just like guns. Guns are cool. But if you accidentally shoot yourself while cleaning it like a dumbass, that's not cool.
 

ardour

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Cool. But even I got too old to care about these identity politics things, the people who engage in that incelhate deserve to be trolled.

Now that I'm thinking about it...I should sign up on reddit despite being banned and start a thread explaining how I've married with the sole purpose to cheat on my wife with 17 years old girl: "Look, 17 is legal where I live, I married her because it turns me on to talk to her over the phone lying I'm at work while this young girl is giving me bl***job".
Sounds more typical of the Red Pill community.
 
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TheSkaFish

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I know I've said this before, but I'm so weary of the tired, worn-out, ignorant idea that prostitutes are the answer to this problem. I don't understand how anyone still thinks this.

For one thing, think about the kind of people this "solution" is for - people who are angry and depressed because they don't feel like they're able to do something that's seen as both a basic, fundamental experience of life, and also something that's seen as normal - and being shut out of something normal, makes them feel less than normal. And again, for the umpteenth time, I don't JUST mean sex, I mean dating and romantic relationships. Emotional intimacy that's a different kind of closeness than what you experience with your family or the dudes. It's a big part of what most people consider "normal life", just like having friends. Friendships, relationships, and yeah even sex, are a part of what I consider life's "standard features" - the bare essentials, where if you're missing one of them, you really feel its absence, whereas something like being rich and famous, is more like an "option", where it's nice to have it, but not the end of the world if you don't.

What do you think having to do something less than normal, like seeing a prostitute, would do to such a person? If the main thing you want is to feel normal, like you're as good as anyone else, and can have the same good life experiences and quality of life as anyone, how is it going to help with that, to do some weird, less than normal activity? Is that going to make you feel more normal, or less?

For two, frankly, it's offensive. It's like saying the solution to poverty isn't to actually make it so that people aren't poor, but to just give poor people alcohol and drugs instead, and to tell them to forget about a decent life, just give up and get ****(ed) up, cause that's as good as you're ever going to feel, that's as good as your life is ever going to get.

Or it would be like me saying that less-conventionally attractive and/or older women, should just give up on men and settle for dildos and romance novels. Can you see how that would be a shitty thing to say? It makes me understand how anything I might have said in my earlier days here, about who is and isn't "good enough" for me, was offensive, and for that I apologize, now that I see things more clearly.

There's also a "got mine, **** you" element to it as well. I have a feeling that the kind of person who says "they should just get a prostitute!" would never see a prostitute themselves. It's like, "stooping to a low, humiliating, degrading experience and accepting that's all you get should be good enough for you, but I would never". I feel like it's a double standard, and it's bullshit. The idea that people should just throw up their hands and resign themselves to "accepting" a shitty lot in life, to being relegated to a shitty quality of life, has always been something that's pissed me off, that I've found deeply offensive. It's like, how can you seriously be expected to "make the best" out of a situation that's complete ****, and then people have the nerve to fault and blame you for hating it, as if it takes something away from them? It's so dismissive and *******-ish.

Anyway, you're talking about people who feel not only frustrated, but insulted and humiliated by their situation - so the answer is to accept the insult, accept the humiliation, to just shrug and say "you know what, I guess I really AM inferior". That isn't a solution for anything except destroying whatever little is left of someone's self-esteem.

I for one think it's a non-answer that just goes to show the person saying it, doesn't understand the problem and doesn't care to.
 
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TheSkaFish

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As for what I DO think the answer is...

...on the policy end, the government could bring back an environment that made it easy to be in the middle-class, like in the 30 or so years after WW2, where the middle class, "just OK", "normal" as we know it, came to be. When they started attacking that, they really ****(ed) society in many ways. But bringing that back would mean the government would actually have to give a **** about its non-rich citizens, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

The other thing I can think to do has more to do with just day-to-day interactions between people - just making sure than men and women understand what they want and expect in each other, in this new world. I think a lot of the misery is caused by people not having all the information, and/or having bad/outdated/wrong information, and as a result not knowing how to think, act, and be in ways that are in line with what the other is looking for.

You have to be what women want in a man, but also in a way that's "you" at the same time. I struggle with this myself. It's a tough balancing act, hard for me to reconcile the two as I deal with my own self-doubt and indecision, plus the way I was raised, and my natural tendencies to be curious, warm, and friendly instead of cold, competitive, and macho. I just don't believe in the Darwinian world view, I don't believe in hierarchies, I don't believe in "human nature". I don't think it has to be this same old miserable way that's good for a few people that randomly have the right stuff to sort them to the top, and shitty for everyone else. If the system is shitty for you, why would you buy into it? What's in it for you? For me, I've always known it was nothing. So these ways of thinking never had any appeal for me.

In short, a lot of men don't seem to know what women are looking for in a man, and also how to meaningfully, emotionally connect with women on a deep level. I think anything short of that, is a non-answer. The problem is, not everyone just "gets it" instinctively.


PS - to be honest I'm not even that pissed, we've more or less been through all this before. Been there, done that.
 
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Cherubino

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I think that the question which remains to be answered is what is truly the value of pu*** if you have no interest in kids and the family life, and, does love actually exist?

Sex is great, don't get me wrong, I love sex.
But it can also seriously **** up your life.
Just like guns. Guns are cool. But if you accidentally shoot yourself while cleaning it like a dumbass, that's not cool.
Yes the use of guns needs some instruction and regulation ... also love is the bread, sex is the cake (you know "let them eat cake") ... or I love someone because she's a pu*** owner and she rents to me solely ... still renting is better than being homeless
 

NoxApex(N/A)

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Yes the use of guns needs some instruction and regulation ... also love is the bread, sex is the cake (you know "let them eat cake") ... or I love someone because she's a pu*** owner and she rents to me solely ... still renting is better than being homeless

Unless you're particularly wealthy in America, like upper-middle class, even though rent is more expensive than home ownership, it's more practical than home ownership. It's more practical because of the cost of home upkeep. Things like plumbing, electrical, central air, roofing, not to mention landscaping, it all gets cumulatively super expensive very quickly, even for the upper-middle class. Plus it's also hugely a pain in the ass. So really, would you like to be skinned from the neck down, or the ankle up? 🤷‍♂️😂
 

Cherubino

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ok how about volunteering sex ... in my youth I would have volunteered for sex with "undateable" women ... I bet there are women who are willing to volunteer as well but they are afraid for their reputation and of moral lynch (think of poor Monica Lewinsky) ... so gender equality is centuries away and feminism is actually a blessing for men like me and incels
 

TropicalStarfish

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Involuntary Celibacy is an oxymoron. Celibacy is a choice made by those dedicating their lives to a, 'higher purpose.' So are there a bunch of people out there, forced into never being laid or having a girl friend, that they may serve a higher purpose? No.

Incel is a made up word, that contradicts itself; and therefor has no validity. And if a word makes no sense and has no validity, it's probably an indicator that what it speaks, 'too,' is filled with an equal amount of contradiction.

If some one robbed you of one of your kidneys, you could say something like you were an 'involuntary organ donor,' to try and sound clever. However, a donation is something that is freely given. So were you forced to freely do something you didn't want to do? No, that's contradictory language. You were robbed.
 

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