Patriotism, and the lack thereof

[Sigma]

I'm just gonna go straight to the point - I hate my country.
More specifically, I hate the part where I live. Not just dislike, I hate it with a burning passion.
I had some time alone with a psychiatrist somewhere in 2012 regarding something unrelated (though very unpleasant), but we also briefly touched on this subject, he gave a rather lengthy explanation, but in a nutshell the explanation was that my mind associates bad things with my country (the part I see as my country anyway, I don't feel any more kinship with the people in the north of my country than with belgian / german people on the border closer to where I live) whether they are related or not, in other words; textbook childhood trauma stuff.
Now having all that explained to me was all fine and dandy, but the feelings remained, even if I know the cause I still get very uncomfortable whenever I hear people speak dutch /when I hear dutch on tv or the radio, personally having a lengthy dutch conversation is the mental equivalent of walking on glass for me, even on forums if I happen to meet a dutch person I request we speak in english.
These feelings didn't really manifest until the age of 10 (pretty much when everything went to honeysuckle), but at that time I already spoke more or less fluent english because 90% of my family's acquaintances were british, we even spoke english at home sometimes whether we had british guests or not. Force of habit I guess.
So even though I didn't yet hate it, I considered dutch a redundancy.

Right, with that out of the way here is my question: Does anyone share these sentiments?
Not necessarily hating your country, just lacking complete loyalty to it. Because from what I've seen it's a rare thing indeed. Whenever I tell people I dislike my country (just dislike) I get the exact same reaction; surprise followed by disapproval. It's like there's an unwritten law dictating that you must agree with everything your country stands for - whatever that might be - and that anything less makes you a traitor (I actually tried searching for the antonym of patriot and the word coming up the most was traitor)

 

[Lilianna]

I don't find it shocking at all you hate your country, just because you were born there doesn't mean you have to like it.

I don't agree with everything my country stands for either, but I don't consider myself a traitor. And I don't think you are a traitor either, I think to be a traitor, you would have to actually do something against your country.

 

[Tiina63]

I agree with Liliana.

 

[Rosebolt]

I agree with Lilliana to a point, however i do not agree that doing something against your country makes you a traitor. Then again i am not a fan of giving pieces of land to people, calling it a country, and giving said people an excuse to rule over others.

The way i see it, you are born on this world, and not in a "country." Therefore this human made country and it's citizens have no right whatsoever to request loyalty of anyone.

I'm dutch, i don't like holland. However i do not like it for what it stands for and what it does. "It" being the people that i mentioned before. I don't think that is the same kind of hate, if i may call it that.

To answer your question more directly, no, i don't think i share your sentiments. But yes, i do hate holland, and i do lack any loyalty at all to it, but just for different reasons then you seem to.

People who disapprove of your feelings are in my opinion close minded and brainwashed.

On a side note, i've always found the english language to be alot better sounding then the dutch language, but i don't think it's as deep rooted.

 

[ladyforsaken]

Sigma, I share your sentiments on this. Sighs.

 

[Limlim]

I've learned recently I share my country with some pretty big retards. It really killed my sense of patriotism.

 

[Azariah]

I don't hate my country. But there are things my country, or more specifically my government has done that I disapprove of.

 

[eyesonly]

This is all really interesting to me...

I'm just curious about what kinds of things Sigma and Rosebolt hate about the Netherlands. I've always thought of it as a country that seems to have a lot going for it - universal health care, help for the disadvantaged, progressive attitudes, etc. If you look at surveys of life satisfaction, the well-being of children, and things like that, the Netherlands is always one of the very top countries.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things I REALLY don't like about my country (the U.S.) There are too many to list here and I'm sure they would be incredibly obvious to anyone not from here (and to the relatively few people in the U.S. who, like myself, see things differently from the majority).

To me, it seems like there are many "objective" reasons to dislike certain things about the U.S., and to see many European countries as having a better quality of life for the average person. If you look at statistics, countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Germany seem better off in so many ways. I've never lived in any of those places, though, so I don't have first-hand experience. Also, as "objective" as I may feel my views to be, they aren't shared by a lot of people who live in the U.S., so maybe a lot of it just comes down to opinion, perspective, worldview, etc.

 

[perfanoff]

This is all really interesting to me...

I'm just curious about what kinds of things Sigma and Rosebolt hate about the Netherlands. I've always thought of it as a country that seems to have a lot going for it - universal health care, help for the disadvantaged, progressive attitudes, etc. If you look at surveys of life satisfaction, the well-being of children, and things like that, the Netherlands is always one of the very top countries.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things I REALLY don't like about my country (the U.S.) There are too many to list here and I'm sure they would be incredibly obvious to anyone not from here (and to the relatively few people in the U.S. who, like myself, see things differently from the majority).

To me, it seems like there are many "objective" reasons to dislike certain things about the U.S., and to see many European countries as having a better quality of life for the average person. If you look at statistics, countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, and Germany seem better off in so many ways. I've never lived in any of those places, though, so I don't have first-hand experience. Also, as "objective" as I may feel my views to be, they aren't shared by a lot of people who live in the U.S., so maybe a lot of it just comes down to opinion, perspective, worldview, etc.

WAIT... you're not drinking the kool-aid?
'murica, the land of the free, of the brave!

I've noted American society is much more inward-looking than most other societies. A lot of people don't know what life is like outside and frankly don't care. Well I don't blame them. You've got the oceans separating you from most of the world, and your society is rich enough as it is.. with over 300 million people living in it.

I've found life in different countries to be incomparable. There's just this radically different "feel" you get in different places...

 

[bulmabriefs144]

"How sweet it is to hate one's native land and avidly desire its ruin - and in its ruin to discern the dawn of universal rebirth." -Vladimir Pecherin.

I like what America could be, a land where apathy and personal responsibility creates true freedom, by letting people do and be what they want. What the 1960s could have brought, if the people into peace and love were led by legitimate people.

Actually, the people leading the equal rights/free love movement were just using people to push communist agenda. It seems free now? Explain this to someone whose town got all their businesses gutted by Walmart. Or who gets judged exclusively by appearance or past work history, but is told that "this is a land of opportunity." Or heck, try being homeless and trying to live off the land in a house you built yourself secretly (you can be reported, and asked to dismantle the house if you didn't pay property taxes).

I wouldn't mind all this crap so much if we didn't have all this BS about how we're the "most free nation in the world." We're the most false and hypocritical nation in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

At no point in this study is it ever noted what the standards of freedom even are. They just say civil rights and political freedoms.

But despite us supposedly being in 1 for 1 for both in the last three years, gays do not have the right to marry, criminals and immigrants do not have the right to vote (what if you were falsely accused). If you are poor and cannot get a hotel, you will be asked to leave and pushed from place to place because there are many many places that aren't free to just sleep overnight without money.
Belarus a "not free" country according to this, gives all people the right to citizens have the right to "freely stay in the forest and collect wild fruits, berries, nuts, mushrooms, other food, forest resources and medicinal plants to meet their own needs." We don't even have one such law protecting the right to forage.

So anyone can vote, big deal. Work on making us free from corporate interests first. If my right to vote means I have to afford a house or apartment, or I don't have "permanent residence" on the form, I'm not free to vote. I live with my parents until they die, then I'm likely on the street.

I felt more at home in China, because they at least seemed to have small stands cropping up everywhere. Our "free enterprise" system requires various permits to sell products, meaning no you can't just conduct trade.

 

[quintus]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with your lack of patriotism. But there is a lot wrong with patriotism. If I remember right it usually is used to motivate the dull masses to follow their leaders into war. The headline for the propaganda machine. I neither hate my country nor love it. I like a lot of things in the country where I live. But not in way of patriotic feelings. Gosh, no! Allegiance to a flag seems such a mindless behaviour. A bit like cattle to the slaughter. If I would hate my country ( and of course I mean the social or political idea of a country and not the landscape) I simply would move on to another.

 

[NoRain]

Sigma, I cannot STAND my country. I dont HATE it, cause I think hate is a very strong word. I am capable of recognizing some things about my country, like the fact that its very beautiful, but besides that I just cant stand it. I cant stand the people, the government, the weather, the popular culture, the lack of a proper society behavior, etc. But whenever I say anything about it, I get the same reaction as you do. People think its outrageous and Im being a snob and they assume that just because I happened to be born here Im obligated to love it. Almost as if the country was your parent: it put you in the world, so you're meant to at least like it for that.
Not only do I dislike my country, but am constantly ashamed of its actions. I dont even watch the news, otherwise I'll just feel sad and ashamed.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

I like the country itself (i.e. the scenery, the weather, etc.) but what makes me rather unpatriotic is society itself. Mainly the part of society that makes it deliberately obscure whether anyone can settle anywhere without money irks me (it turns out you can through either homesteading or adverse property (squatting)). I'm a bit worried about becoming homeless, since I know what they have to go through.

 

[quintus]

It seems we are all a bunch of anti-patriots here. I somehow like that.
O, by the way- I'm on the verge of becoming homeless. I somehow don't like THAT.

 

[MTrip]

Not blindly worshipping your country does not make you a traitor. Under US law (I don't know what Dutch law states but presumably it can't be radically different), a traitor is someone who assists a country with whom the United States is at war. That especially applies if said person's actions result in the death of American citizens or servicemen. If my presumption is correct, then you are not a traitor.

Frankly I'm not a patriot either. It is a timeworn device that leaders use to attract volunteers when the government decides to declare war. I do believe there is such a thing as a just war, but that is rare & not always easy to discern. The military won't accept me in any case, but even if I were eligible, why should I go to some godforsaken corner of the world & get killed by some shaheed, just so the American varieties of Homo stultus can gas up their cars before heading to the buffet & adding to their cellulite collections?

I don't hate my country. I'm just disgusted with it. There are good things to be said about the United States...but they are outweighed by the more germane criticisms of it. Mine is a country in decline. We once had great potential & manufactured some of best goods & machines you could get. We had so much open land, & immigrants who came here could escape class-bound fates & make something of themselves. But that's all gone. We established an empire but are losing it now. And our fate will be that of all previous empires, sooner or later.

 

[ladyforsaken]

We once had great potential & manufactured some of best goods & machines you could get. We had so much open land, & immigrants who came here could escape class-bound fates & make something of themselves. But that's all gone.

Yeah, once upon a time. It's sad.

 

[Scotsman]

Capitalism took a honeysuckle on everything.

 

[Lippy_Kid]

Ah you ever typed a paragraph or so and then just deleted it and thought fresia it I can't be bothered to type it out.

Anyway, I like living in Brtain generally, on a world scale it's a safe place to live and tolerant. Proud? Never really understood being proud to have been born somewhere, lucky maybe.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I've come to have to face that America is a bit of a joke.

I don't like where I live, and wish I could move to the UK. It seems so much better than America!

 

[Walley]

I like my country.
sure, there are always going to be people and leaders that do not represent my views, and special interest groups that go against my opinions, but generally I know that here in Canada, we have it pretty good.
it's kind of like.. if you took all the best parts of America and UK, mixed up the population into a melting pot of races and cultures and spread them out over a huge land mass.. you would have Canada!

that being said... we are not known for patriotism at all.
we are not flag-wavers. honestly, the only time you see a Canadian wearing the flag or maple leaf is when we are on vacation in a different country and don't want to be confused with Americans ;p
I think we are not nationalists in general is simply because we are so much of a multicultural society and we understand that almost everyone that lives here emigrated from somewhere else at one point or another.