People like us are held to higher standards

[Finished]

Well, I have never been with a prostitute. And I never will. I would never even pay someone just to hang out with me. It would make me feel like less of a person. About the most I'm willing to do is buy someone a beer or maybe help them work on something. But, I still wouldn't repair a prostitute's car in lieu of sex. I would just repair her car for free if she seemed nice and needed help without strings attached. Then I would wish her well and be on my way.

I did have a lonely short friend that paid a lot of money to a stripper over about a years time. He wanted to make her his girlfriend. Eventually she agreed to go to lunch with him and spend some of his money on clothes for her. Then she sort of agreed to have sex with something in return that just happened to be cash. He felt fine about it because he sort of thought she was his girlfriend. I still knew she was prostituting herself. But, he didn't want to admit that to himself. I said just say you had sex with a prostitute. It's no big deal. But, he wouldn't. He felt ashamed. So..... ashamed can mean worthless?

 

[mgill]

ska & ardour are 100% correct. paying for sex is only going to make things far worse for inferior males who are not good enough to have a female genuinely attracted to us. not only is it dangerous and expensive but it is also illegal in the US so you risk prosecution including perhaps losing your job and jail time.

the fact that this is the only option for some men to ever experience even the illusion of affection & physical connection speaks volumes about how bad modern society is for men who are below a certain looks level. what good looking men take for granted & so readliy receive their entire lives is a mere pipe dream for losers of the genetic lottery like myself.

 

[ardour]

Skafish "The thing is, I don't know why this guy did what he did. According to his stories, he hooked up with girls from bars all the time."

I know someone who did that and he definitely wasn't a virgin beforehand.

 

[Just Games]

ska & ardour are 100% correct.  paying for sex is only going to make things far worse for inferior males who are not good enough to have a female genuinely attracted to us.  not only is it dangerous and expensive but it is also illegal in the US so you risk prosecution including perhaps losing your job and jail time.

the fact that this is the only option for some men to ever experience even the illusion of affection & physical connection speaks volumes about how bad modern society is for men who are below a certain looks level.  what good looking men take for granted & so readliy receive their entire lives is a mere pipe dream for losers of the genetic lottery like myself.

How about Nevada .All I'm saying is if your late to the party it would help in the dating game if your experienced with sex.I' m sure there's lots of lovely ladies out there that will be patient if say you have stage fright on your first couple of dates and will guide you through the Ins and Outs and what they'd like you to do ...no I'm stopping there. Alot however are not let's be realistic. In my opinion it just will give you the edge and a tad more confidence if on your  first occasion when you're invited up for coffee that your not nervous about how you are going to perform i know it would help me.I'm sure an escort is going to be patient because yes they just want to earn there money and its ,in my colleagues case,with her being as he said independent.,important to earn a crust and he was giving her £100 an hour so good luck to them both.

I don't consider my ex colleague a loser because of his choice to be with an escort for whatever reason maybe not wanting a relationship or one night hook ups I just think good luck to him if it made him happy and definitely did not in any way did i lose respect for him.Maybe I suppose I'm not as principalled as you lot.I just know if I'm in a club/bar situation it would give me alot more confidence if I had some experience with sex.By the way ,I googled there are a million in America so some men are taking the risk with diseases just like your taking a risk with one night stands.

What gets me about Ardour also is that he actually said ladies his own age are showing interest in him and for some deep seated reason he's not prepared to let them in.Obviously its his choice but if I were him I would welcome that attention and probably act on it,but that's just me.

Am I right Mgill you said you were married before if not apologies if I've got you mixed up with someone else.

Also instead of ignoring the fact that i have four, what you would call below average in looks blokes all around 5ft 6 to 5ft 8 who got into long term realationships sitting round my card table how do you think they managed it..held a gun to their heads?

 

[ardour]

What gets me about Ardour also is that he actually said ladies his own age are showing interest in him and for some deep seated reason he's not prepared to let them in.Obviously its his choice but if I were him I would welcome that attention and probably act on it,but that's just me.

Re the "interest." One friend-of-a-friend  - nice-enough person, but obese, heavy drinker and mentally ill -  tried to get me to stay the night once.  Another woman  - heavy drinking/drug using single mother in her 30s  - said she found me attractive except for the lack of hair. She was later banned from a bar for using cocaine in the toilets. An older women at  a meetup seemed to drop hints, but I can't say I was all that attracted and she became passive aggressive when I didn't immediately return the interest which made that even less likely.

 

[mgill]

ska & ardour are 100% correct.  paying for sex is only going to make things far worse for inferior males who are not good enough to have a female genuinely attracted to us.  not only is it dangerous and expensive but it is also illegal in the US so you risk prosecution including perhaps losing your job and jail time.

the fact that this is the only option for some men to ever experience even the illusion of affection & physical connection speaks volumes about how bad modern society is for men who are below a certain looks level.  what good looking men take for granted & so readliy receive their entire lives is a mere pipe dream for losers of the genetic lottery like myself.

How about Nevada .All I'm saying is if your late to the party it would help in the dating game if your experienced with sex.I' m sure there's lots of lovely ladies out there that will be patient if say you have stage fright on your first couple of dates and will guide you through the Ins and Outs and what they'd like you to do ...no I'm stopping there. Alot however are not let's be realistic. In my opinion it just will give you the edge and a tad more confidence if on your  first occasion when you're invited up for coffee that your not nervous about how you are going to perform i know it would help me.I'm sure an escort is going to be patient because yes they just want to earn there money and its ,in my colleagues case,with her being as he said independent.,important to earn a crust and he was giving her £100 an hour so good luck to them both.

I don't consider my ex colleague a loser because of his choice to be with an escort for whatever reason maybe not wanting a relationship or one night hook ups I just think good luck to him if it made him happy and definitely did not in any way did i lose respect for him.Maybe I suppose I'm not as principalled as you lot.I just know if I'm in a club/bar situation it would give me alot more confidence if I had some experience with sex.By the way ,I googled there are a million in America so some men are taking the risk with diseases just like your taking a risk with one night stands.

What gets me about Ardour also is that he actually said ladies his own age are showing interest in him and for some deep seated reason he's not prepared to let them in.Obviously its his choice but if I were him I would welcome that attention and probably act on it,but that's just me.

Am I right Mgill you said you were married before if not apologies if I've got you mixed up with someone else.

Also instead of ignoring the fact that i have four, what you would call below average in looks blokes all around 5ft 6  to 5ft 8 who got into long term realationships sitting round my card table how do you think they managed it..held a gun to their heads?

correct-i was married for many years to my one and only partner so in my case lack of previous experience is not applicable.

as far as nevada- i stated previously that having to spend thousands of dollars and travel across the country to pay for the delusion of a women caring about me would do the exact opposite in regards to confidence. as has been mentioned by otehrs here, just the fact that it is likely the escort is disgusted by the act they are being paid for (or at best, neutral) is not going to help anyone do any better with women. i have also heard stories about escorts who don't even charge men if they are attractive enough and others whom refuse to service a man because he is too unattractive.  just imagine what it would do to an ugly man's already low self esteem if an escort rejected him & his money because he was too physically repulsive to her. i know just the fact that i would have to pay for physical interactions with zero real affection  when better men get it for free along with real affection & validation would make me feel like even more of a loser than i already do.

the anecdotal examples of short, average & below average men who never have any problems attracting women are endless and entirely irrelevant.  the fact that some similar men in the past may have been able to find a relationship in different circumstances and in a different country has no bearing on the fact that currently in the US being a below average male in height, looks and hair makes it virtually impossible for him to attract a partner. due to OLD & social media, even average men are currently greatly stuggling in this area and it is only the top 20% of men who have no problem connecting with the women they are attracted to. for the rest of us it is a crap shoot with the odds based on our height & face so the bottom 25% of men (which is where i find myself) have an almost zero chance of success.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You are what you think you are and most of the time that has nothing to do with reality. That's true for a lot of people, not just people you seem to think have "inferior genetics."
The same is true for the world. You see what you want to see, not necessarily what's actually there. If all you do is focus on the negatives, then that is all you will see. You have self fulfilled your own prophecy.

You also keep saying how people who aren't short or ugly or bald or have "inferior genetics" or whatever the hell you spew about can't understand, but why is it that it doesn't work the other way around. You seem to have all the knowledge of what taller, "prettier" people go through....why is that?

 

[M_also_lonely]

Life cannot happen the way you want, because then it will happen against what someone else wants. And vice versa.

I know, regret is the worst. "I wish life happened differently." Almost the entire humanity today lives either in guilt, shame or regret. For something or the other. 

For spiritually minded people like you, life is a bit more depressing because they are aware of the fact that something is wrong with the way society is functioning.

I have a lot to say on this topic but you won't accept it. Because if listening to someone saying it could cure the pain, there would be no emotional misery in the world.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Prostitution is legal in New Zealand...

With all due respect...I get really tired of seeing people say this, whenever someone brings up loneliness as an issue.  It's like those who say things like this aren't even reading OP's post or listening to them when they tell you what their problems are, but rather, you are telling THEM what their own problems are for them.  Time and time again, someone will suggest this as an answer, when almost every time, the OP is saying they are lonely for both sex AND a relationship.  They want intimacy, not just sex.  They want what it seems like everyone else has, as a normal part of life.  They want what they grew up being taught was normal, and what they saw as normal.  They want what you feel not only in your body but your mind, heart, and soul - a real connection. 

It's NOT just about sex, it very rarely is.  In fact, the kind of person who just wants sex, usually doesn't even have problems like this in the first place.  Cynical, unemotional (except for cockiness and smug superiority), non-sentimental guys who view life as nothing but cold competition, power struggles/dominance games, and survival of the fittest, seem to have little to no problems with attraction.

Also, I feel like it would be absolutely terrible for a person's self-esteem.  If you're lonely, your self-esteem is probably hurting.  And to hire a prostitute is to admit defeat - it's to admit that you are so worthless, so defective, so inferior, that you have to pay for what others - including some godawful excuses for human beings - get for free as a normal, natural part of life that they don't think twice about, just for existing and not doing anything that particularly special, AND risk STDs including the deadly, life-ruining ones, as well as public humiliation - not to mention the private humiliation that you would get even if no one ever found out about it.  It's confirmation that other people, including the ********, really are just better than you, and that YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, even for something normal, because YOU ARE A LOSER.  I feel like it would just destroy what's left of a person's self-esteem.

Again, it's not my intention to offend or antagonize you, but I originally started this post with a "Sorry" and it reminded me of an article I read lately saying that we overuse the word sorry, diluting its meaning and making us more indecisive and less confident.  It would be dishonest, wishy washy, and cowardly of me to leave that in there, since I am not sorry for my views on this, this is how I really think and feel on the matter.

I get really tired too; but, I keep trying...  Maybe you could try too?  You're one of the few names I recognize on this site...

Understanding what intimacy is can be a great help in finding it...

 

[TheSkaFish]

I get really tired too; but, I keep trying... Maybe you could try too?  You're one of the few names I recognize on this site...

Understanding what intimacy is can be a great help in finding it...

I watched the video, and I think she made a lot of fair points - especially about how intimacy is a need, not a want, and when your needs aren't being met, it hurts.  

But I still feel like a person should still be able to attract someone naturally.  All of these things she offers besides sex, are things that should naturally occur in a relationship.  And I still feel like a relationship is not some kind of luxury item for being exceptionally successful in life, like a mansion or an exotic car - something that is nice to have, but is just gravy.  I feel like a relationship is a more normal part of life that anyone should be able to do.  A person shouldn't need to be special to get something that is a normal part of life.  That's what normal is - the average, the mundane.  

I just feel like turning to a sex worker to meet your needs is like admitting defeat, it's like admitting that you can't meet your needs because you're not good enough.  It's basically agreeing with everyone that says you are too much of a loser for a relationship, too inferior.  

I know I've said that already, but it's what I believe.  I feel like rather than resorting to extreme measures that don't even really solve the underlying problem, I think it's better to try to figure out where you're going wrong and how to fix it.

Either way, I appreciate the diplomatic answer.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I get really tired too; but, I keep trying... Maybe you could try too?  You're one of the few names I recognize on this site...

Understanding what intimacy is can be a great help in finding it...

I watched the video, and I think she made a lot of fair points - especially about how intimacy is a need, not a want, and when your needs aren't being met, it hurts.  

But I still feel like a person should still be able to attract someone naturally.  All of these things she offers besides sex, are things that should naturally occur in a relationship.  And I still feel like a relationship is not some kind of luxury item for being exceptionally successful in life, like a mansion or an exotic car - something that is nice to have, but is just gravy.  I feel like a relationship is a more normal part of life that anyone should be able to do.  A person shouldn't need to be special to get something that is a normal part of life.  That's what normal is - the average, the mundane.  

I just feel like turning to a sex worker to meet your needs is like admitting defeat, it's like admitting that you can't meet your needs because you're not good enough.  It's basically agreeing with everyone that says you are too much of a loser for a relationship, too inferior.  

I know I've said that already, but it's what I believe.  I feel like rather than resorting to extreme measures that don't even really solve the underlying problem, I think it's better to try to figure out where you're going wrong and how to fix it.

Either way, I appreciate the diplomatic answer.

Anyway, thank-you as well...

 

[ardour]

It's funny how a lot of dating advice talks up finding an SO as if it were the equivalent of getting to pilot the space shuttle; as you need are remarkable talents, years of grind and self-improvement along with some complicated strategy to do what the average 16 year old is already doing.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

eh.. I don't think I can add anything constructive to this...

If you put your hand really close to your face, you can't see anything but your hand; but, if you slowly draw it away from your face, other things start to become visible. You can still see your hand; but, now you can see more. We all have things that do this to us, in our lives. We have concepts, circumstances, ideas, and situations, that are like the hand so close to our face, we can't see anything else; but, if we could find a way to draw it away from so close to our vision, we might be able to see more..

 

[Finished]

^ Also sometimes it's best to leave the hand right where it's at: Ha! Ha!

 

[Aardra]

It's funny how a lot of dating advice talks up finding an SO as if it were the equivalent of getting to pilot the space shuttle; as you need are remarkable talents, years of grind and self-improvement along with some complicated strategy to do what the average 16 year old is already doing.

I don't think 16-year-olds are commonly finding their SOs. Dating at 16 is awkward at best.

Of course self-improvement is a part of dating. No one wants to date someone who takes no steps to better themselves. I don't care how attractive someone is, if they have no prospects, dreams, or goals I'm not going to be interested in forming any sort of long-term relationship with them. That doesn't mean they have to commit to "years of grind," because self-improvement isn't destination oriented. It's a lifelong endeavor.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It's funny how a lot of dating advice talks up finding an SO as if it were the equivalent of getting to pilot the space shuttle; as you need are remarkable talents, years of grind and self-improvement along with some complicated strategy to do what the average 16 year old is already doing.

I don't think 16-year-olds are commonly finding their SOs. Dating at 16 is awkward at best.

Of course self-improvement is a part of dating. No one wants to date someone who takes no steps to better themselves. I don't care how attractive someone is, if they have no prospects, dreams, or goals I'm not going to be interested in forming any sort of long-term relationship with them. That doesn't mean they have to commit to "years of grind," because self-improvement isn't destination oriented. It's a lifelong endeavor.

 

[ardour]

It's funny how a lot of dating advice talks up finding an SO as if it were the equivalent of getting to pilot the space shuttle; as you need are remarkable talents, years of grind and self-improvement along with some complicated strategy to do what the average 16 year old is already doing.

I don't think 16-year-olds are commonly finding their SOs. Dating at 16 is awkward at best.

Of course self-improvement is a part of dating. No one wants to date someone who takes no steps to better themselves. I don't care how attractive someone is, if they have no prospects, dreams, or goals I'm not going to be interested in forming any sort of long-term relationship with them. That doesn't mean they have to commit to "years of grind," because self-improvement isn't destination oriented. It's a lifelong endeavor.

Men are women aren't equally interested  in status and professional achievements.   I wouldn't date someone who worked at Burger King and did nothing else beyond Netflix and Jagers, but there's a huge zone between that and workaholic PhD where I'm quite happy to date. Mid-level office worker for example as long as she has interests. Unfortunately that's not enough for women these days. The average is unattractive. We need to stand out while competing with a city population size of guys also trying to stand out. It's an employer's market where women are the employers.

 

[TheRealCallie]

 

[Aardra]

It's funny how a lot of dating advice talks up finding an SO as if it were the equivalent of getting to pilot the space shuttle; as you need are remarkable talents, years of grind and self-improvement along with some complicated strategy to do what the average 16 year old is already doing.

I don't think 16-year-olds are commonly finding their SOs. Dating at 16 is awkward at best.

Of course self-improvement is a part of dating. No one wants to date someone who takes no steps to better themselves. I don't care how attractive someone is, if they have no prospects, dreams, or goals I'm not going to be interested in forming any sort of long-term relationship with them. That doesn't mean they have to commit to "years of grind," because self-improvement isn't destination oriented. It's a lifelong endeavor.

Men are women aren't equally interested  in status and professional achievements.   I wouldn't date someone who worked at Burger King and did nothing else beyond Netflix and Jagers, but there's a huge zone between that and workaholic PhD where I'm quite happy to date. Mid-level office worker for example as long as she has interests. Unfortunately that's not enough for women these days.  The average is unattractive. We need to stand out while competing with a city population size of guys also trying to stand out. It's an employer's market where women are the employers.

I am curious. If, say, a professor who was a woman showed interest in you, would you date her? What about a doctor? A lawyer? Any woman with an advanced career who makes significantly more money than you, or is in a more socially advantageous position than you? How would it make you feel?

 

[Olivia24]

I have concluded that you must live in the dullest corner of the world, full of lazy, self absorbed people who have no interest in anyone but themselves....and of course the top 20% of men. 

Seriously, it's not anything like that where I live.  Maybe a change of scenery is exactly what you need.

I agree.

---

Um, last I checked "normal" people go to prostitutes, so how is it not "normal" behavior?

"Normal" men also cheat on their wives. 

Moralizing aside, it doesn't help our situation.

I just fail to see how going to a prostitute means you aren't good enough or a loser when people not in your situation also go to prostitutes.  I'm not recommending going to a prostitute, I just don't understand the logic of what you and Ska said.

"Normal" men go to prostitutes because they want to avoid the hassle of finding a willing partner NOT because they can't find anyone. A large percentage of the clientele are married.

Keep looking!!