philosophical discussion

[cognitive]

Greetings guys and girls. As someone who has been brought to their knees by loneliness I understand how many on here feel. However, it got me thinking, what exactly is loneliness? Is it purely the need for friends and relationships as many of us believe, or is it something deeper.... like the need to respected, to be known to others, social comparison and competition, insecurities about ourselves. Perhaps we should not place such emphasis on looking for happiness externally rather than internally? If anyone has any opinions then do share

 

[zibafu]

I look at it on a biological level - We are a tribal species, we live in packs/groups whatever you want to call it, this gives us the strength and security we need to survive in the wild - cause lets face it, we're not that formidable without technology, so to be alone is the complete opposite of our basic needs, we need companions, we need a "mate" etc to survive, just like we need food and water to live.
But now its different, because we don't live in the wild anymore (well most of us) so we can go for ages without desiring these things and still be secure, but when it those needs hit, it becomes... almost overwhelming I guess you could say.
Not to mention we can be choosy about whom we interact with now, go back 100 -150 years, a mere pinprick in time compared to the million or so years humans/human like creatures have existed. Most people back in the past didn't have best friends whom lived across a country or even abroad, your best and closest friends were very local to you, probably within walking distance. Whereas now, for example I know a girl who lives local to me whose best friend lives in Finland, and is someone she met in Finland, someone she only sees once every few months, this person will also routinely go down to London from Manchester to visit friends, she only has a couple of local friends including myself, and this has only really become possible in the modern age with our communication tech. So yeah we get to be more choosy now and because of that we get lonely.

As for happiness - Happiness is an internal emotion, pleasure however, is an external thing, people take pleasure in chocolate, sports, alcohol, sex, drugs, music etc, but that pleasure disappears quickly causing you to seek it again. Whereas happiness... I dunno how to word it, is a state of "being" acceptance of who you are, acceptance that "honeysuckle happens" thus allowing you to deal with it ? Which is why you can meet people who experience all the pleasures in the world but are unhappy generally, then meet someone who has nothing but is happy. Because it stems from inside you... I think... haha

 

[cognitive]

Hmm, yes I take your point regarding a biological perspective on loneliness, I studied Evolutionary Psychology as part of my uni course and it takes much the same line as you have stated. Its interesting though that there are instances in the past and perhaps even now where individuals have a lived happy, I presume, existences and have survived successfully in isolation. Take, for example, Hermits and certain monks who cut themselves off from the world and focus purely on a spiritual path. However, people who live in isolation in our society are, generally speaking, not happy (again I presume). Perhaps this shows that in our age we have lost the emphasis on finding happiness through internal means and have placed our hopes too much upon external concepts and objects. In my opinion, when one starts letting go of these external desires, by no means easy, then one starts, in turn, to feel happier on the inside.

 

[Regumika]

What exactly is loneliness? Lack of recognition.

Each person requires different kind of recognition. Be it family (several people), friends, significant other (one person), strangers (many people), etc. If a person isn't recognized by the source(s) they require, then they are lonely. Recognition from sources that aren't what the person needs are pointless.

Which is why if you are looking for friends, family attention can't help.
If you are looking to be recognized by your parents, your friends can't help.
If you want to be popular to the masses, your family's/friend's approval won't help.

 

[zibafu]

Hmm, yes I take your point regarding a biological perspective on loneliness, I studied Evolutionary Psychology as part of my uni course and it takes much the same line as you have stated. Its interesting though that there are instances in the past and perhaps even now where individuals have a lived happy, I presume, existences and have survived successfully in isolation. Take, for example, Hermits and certain monks who cut themselves off from the world and focus purely on a spiritual path. However, people who live in isolation in our society are, generally speaking, not happy (again I presume). Perhaps this shows that in our age we have lost the emphasis on finding happiness through internal means and have placed our hopes too much upon external concepts and objects. In my opinion, when one starts letting go of these external desires, by no means easy, then one starts, in turn, to feel happier on the inside.

Suddenly I feel really clever, since I've never studied any kind of psychology and what I said just came out of my mind

Yes, there are instances, but these people, purposefully cut themselves of with intention to be alone and had something to focus their thoughts on, whereas the majority of us, just find ourselves alone and don't understand why that's happening to us.


Another interesting point I feel, is to cast your thoughts back in time again, and think about how people lived, you didn't go down to the local Tesco to buy your groceries, you farmed your own food, made your own clothing, produced your own tools etc. So did you have time to think about loneliness, or did you focus on the work at hand.
Now however, we don't have to dig a new outhouse toilet, or farm or make tools, or make clothes or spend 30 minutes making a fire to boil water to drink, we don't have to go to our village square to trade some of our potatoes with someone for some of their carrots. We have a lot more time on our hands to think in the modern age, which is where some of our desire for friends comes from I think, and because we can sit there and think and feel a lot more, we end up feeling loneliness more. In past times I would say you probably simply didn't have time to feel alone. So I guess it could be considered an irony that our technology to make our lives easy actually makes aspects of it more complicated for us


You gotta wonder as well, how many of us, on here and out there in the world, are so alone, but when someone reaches out in our social circle we proclaim ourselves to be "fine" and "happy" when in reality we just wanna scream out at the world, I think there's a sad fact that for some being alone and unhappy with it has become such habit that to break the habit seems unattainable, so you push would be friends away.


Letting go of a lot of the external desires is definitely something most people in the world could do with doing

 

[Rosebolt]

Greetings guys and girls. As someone who has been brought to their knees by loneliness I understand how many on here feel. However, it got me thinking, what exactly is loneliness? Is it purely the need for friends and relationships as many of us believe, or is it something deeper.... like the need to respected, to be known to others, social comparison and competition, insecurities about ourselves. Perhaps we should not place such emphasis on looking for happiness externally rather than internally? If anyone has any opinions then do share

The way i see it at the moment, is that i - i'll try to only speak of myself here - have a social meter, so to speak. This meter can be overloaded, underloaded, or at its sweet spot.

Wether this social meter is high or low does not equal the amount of social contact i have at any given time, it merely states that i need to either look for socially satisfying situations, or avoid social contact, or in the case of the sweet spot, enjoy the moment, i guess.

This meter is influenced by a variety of factors, and is also cause to a variety of .. hmm "symptoms" so to speak, among which is loneliness. If my social meter is too low, i need to fill it up again, meaning i've had less than adequate social contact recently, in turn meaning that i feel lonely.

On a side note, this can also be another explanation between the huge difference of loneliness and solitude, for a solitude person can still have his/her meter high, and therefore not requiring any social contact.

Factors influencing the meter range from simple social contact, to things like nostalgia, which for me tends to alleviate the feelings of loneliness, by reminding me of happier times. Happy is never commonly associated with loneliness, so i suppose it gets blocked out.

 

[lonelyfairy]

It's lack of special connection with anyone. Like the soul is longing for something meaningful and precious. Feeling of emptiness inside you because there's no one to connect with. No one who would make you feel alive.

 

[cognitive]

Some most stimulating points! You sound like a professor Zibafu! I understand your points regarding our ancestors. Gathering food, clothing and finding shelter was, then, most likely, a much larger concern on the mind (I am still aware that these are concerns for many still today). I suppose that is why distraction is such an effective method, or can be, in treating many sorts of mental suffering. I certainly find once I get out and do something or occupy my mind, lonliness tends to ease to more manageable levels. Habit is certainly an issue here. I tended to isolate myself after a tough time at school, which only served to make me more unhappy. Trying to make a few breaks in this now though. Ultimately,we all need each other.

Definitely here your points Regumika, Rosebolt and lonelyfairy. I find that although I have a good relationship with my family, whenever they say, 'You always have us,' I feel guilty as I know how precious this is but...it just doesn't alleviate the pain that I feel regarding loneliness, I still find myself wanting that recognition from someone who is not kin, where acceptance is not a given. I still find myself fantasing about being in a big group of friends, them all celebrating something that I've done, the recognition and sense of belonging. I certainly find that once I've had some social contact, even if it is simple interaction with a stranger, I feel better, these small things can make a big difference to the mind.

Like your quote lonelyfairy on 'The Alchemist.' One of my favourite quotes comes from that analogy about the oil lamp. 'The secret of happiness is to see all the marvels of the world and never to forget the drops of oil on the spoon.'

 

[lonelyfairy]

Like your quote lonelyfairy on 'The Alchemist.' One of my favourite quotes comes from that analogy about the oil lamp. 'The secret of happiness is to see all the marvels of the world and never to forget the drops of oil on the spoon.'

I agree, it's a great quote (and book!). I think I could quote the whole book, lol.

This is also a nice quote:
“At a certain point in our lives, we lose control of what's happening to us, and our lives become controlled by fate. That's the world's greatest lie.”

 

[sk66rc]

According to Wikipedia - "Loneliness is a complex and usually unpleasant emotional response to isolation or lack of companionship. Loneliness typically includes anxious feelings about a lack of connectedness or communality with other beings, both in the present and extending into the future. As such, loneliness can be felt even when surrounded by other people. The causes of loneliness are varied and include social, mental or emotional factors." I guess some people can be alone & not feel lonely where as some people can be surrounded by a mob of people & still feel all alone... I've said it in other post but I'll say it here, too... Someone once told me when I was at a very young age never to live my life based on other people's standards... I guess that stuck in my head till now... I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm so content with being alone... I've never had problem with "not connecting" with others... Not that I always had friends but I just didn't mind "not connecting" with others because I refuse to have other people put me down based on their beliefs...

 

[Cucuboth]

According to Wikipedia - "Loneliness is a complex and usually unpleasant emotional response to isolation or lack of companionship. Loneliness typically includes anxious feelings about a lack of connectedness or communality with other beings, both in the present and extending into the future. As such, loneliness can be felt even when surrounded by other people. The causes of loneliness are varied and include social, mental or emotional factors." I guess some people can be alone & not feel lonely where as some people can be surrounded by a mob of people & still feel all alone... I've said it in other post but I'll say it here, too... Someone once told me when I was at a very young age never to live my life based on other people's standards... I guess that stuck in my head till now... I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm so content with being alone... I've never had problem with "not connecting" with others... Not that I always had friends but I just didn't mind "not connecting" with others because I refuse to have other people put me down based on their beliefs...

Huh. Wikipedia gets it pretty spot on. At least for me anyway. My loneliness is from a lack of companionship (friends and relationships), and a lack of connection with anyone (and that includes family). I distinctly feel like I don't "fit in" anywhere, or with anyone. And by fitting in, I guess I mean that I don't feel as though I'm accepted by anyone. I don't necessarily try, or want to, "fit in" with other people's expectations or standards or beliefs, but I just long for a connection with someone. I don't know how else to explain it really.

 

[cognitive]

Yeah I know what you mean about wanting to find a connection with a special person. Its strange, I was at a community day with a group I go to, there was about 50-60 of us in these two rooms chatting and just getting to know each other, I felt anything but lonely which was great as this is not often the case. Then there was this girl, who I confess I found quite attractive, we almost talked but just didn't. I had to leave soon after, but because I hadn't talked to this one girl who I liked I suddenly felt pretty lonely. Then it started raining as I walked to the car. Then I got hit with those classic lonely thoughts, 'Will I ever find love,' etc, etc. Its amazing how fast loneliness can spring an ambush.