Questions for the Men

[user 139760]

I see one sided relationships everywhere, I think lots of it come from the assumption that women are more valuable in society.

Its hard for someone like me to be pampered so I haven't experienced that.

I think it's just a natural both way. You do something nice for me, I do something nice for you. A service entails a service.
I don't know you, I'm not "interested" in you, yet if I met you, I'd probably be civil, chivalrous and courteous, while expecting a little bit back. It seems just natural.
I also discovered a new trend in the last couple of years; I used to open doors to someone and they'd just step through. Now, they ALWAYS put their hands on the door and open it a lil bit further. Try it, you'll see.
Interesting. It's like people can't accept vulnerability anymore.

 

[ardour]

You sound too energetic, I'm already tired reading this. Hahaha

I'm just fooling around lol. Read about 2 posts above.
I think attentions run both ways. Ironically, I haven't experienced often. I dated a girl for 3 years, she made me supper ONCE. I cooked every night.
I never got why people figure it's okay to have such one sided relationships, or where many women got this notion to be pampered. My philosophy is pamper to BE pampered.

"The power in all relationships lies with whoever cares least" 
 
We are generally considered less attractive, less worthy of love.

 

[DarkSelene]

"The power in all relationships lies with whoever cares least" 

Please don't forget that in a healthy relationship there's no power play.

We are generally considered less attractive, less worthy of love.

You're not put in a pedestal. Have to work really hard and meet high standards do be "worthy".

 

[Xpendable]

Worthy to other worthy people or they just think they are worthy?

 

[DarkSelene]

Both(?)

 

[Xpendable]

I find incredibly pedantic that there're people out there who think others should rise to the level as if they were some kind of superior being.

 

[DarkSelene]

I agree.

 

[TheSkaFish]

You're not put in a pedestal. Have to work really hard and meet high standards do be "worthy".

And that's a big part of why attraction makes me so angry and why I feel like a second-class citizen. I have to work really hard and meet high standards to be worthy, and even if I try to learn all I can and do everything correctly it still might get me nowhere. And some smug ******* will be all too happy to tell me "the universe doesn't owe you anything" with a big honeysuckle-eating smirk that I'd like to wipe off with my knuckles. Meanwhile, some greasy, low-brow ********* who is still acting like a high school "cool kid", isn't even trying that hard in life or trying to be a good person at all will just spit some slick "game" or act tough or "edgy", and that's all it takes, no hard work, no introspection, no self-improvement, nothing. I don't know how to do "game", but if I did it no one would believe it so it would get me nowhere. And even if I did, I just don't think it should win because I hate the cocky personality. It all makes me feel like no amount of work I do will be good enough, or that the level of work I'd need to do is outside of my maximum level of competence.

The "cool guys" pretty much just have to show up, while I feel like the only way I could even hope to compete against them would be for me to be highly successful.

And I understand that women don't want to date a guy who thinks of himself as a second-class citizen, they think it's not confident, not high in self-esteem, not "cool" or exciting or fun. But it's hard for me to see myself as anything else.

---

I find incredibly pedantic that there're people out there who think others should rise to the level as if they were some kind of superior being.

I agree too but I don't even think they think others should rise to their level. I think they just think of themselves and others of their class as inherently superior, and others as members of an inherently inferior class like in the 1800s or something. If they think you're below them, they think you're fixed in your class and that's it.

 

[ardour]

And that's a big part of why attraction makes me so angry and why I feel like a second-class citizen.  I have to work really hard and meet high standards to be worthy, and even if I try to learn all I can and do everything correctly it still might get me nowhere.  And some smug ******* will be all too happy to tell me "the universe doesn't owe you anything" with a big honeysuckle-eating smirk that I'd like to wipe off with my knuckles.  Meanwhile, some greasy, low-brow ********* who is still acting like a high school "cool kid", isn't even trying that hard in life or trying to be a good person at all will just spit some slick "game" or act tough or "edgy", and that's all it takes, no hard work, no introspection, no self-improvement, nothing.  I don't know how to do "game", but if I did it no one would believe it so it would get me nowhere. And even if I did, I just don't think it should win because I hate the cocky personality.  It all makes me feel like no amount of work I do will be good enough, or that the level of work I'd need to do is outside of my maximum level of competence.  

And I understand that women don't want to date a guy who thinks of himself as a second-class citizen, they think it's not confident, not high in self-esteem, not "cool" or exciting or fun.  But it's hard for me to see myself as anything else.

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men). It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years, just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile - late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles. My feelings are driven by bitterness, obviously, just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many good reasons why anyone should have me. And the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

 

[M_also_lonely]

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without  the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men).  It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years,  just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile -  late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles.  My feelings  are driven by bitterness, obviously,  just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many  good reasons why anyone should have me. And  the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

Why does the story of Rabiya and the lost needle come to my mind when I read this!?

 

[DarkSelene]

There's the often repeated argument that you're better off without  the kind of women who are into that, however it starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men).  It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years,  just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile -  late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, that along wit the fact frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care while she smiles, kind of gives a good indication.  Feelings of this sort are driven by bitterness, obviously,  it's just that ... I didn't think that was who she was or what she wanted.

But I was wrong and no-one help what they're attracted to. Who am I to criticize, I can't think of one good reason why anyone should give me a chance. And the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might possess don't seem to matter at all (This is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

Your other qualities can be highly appreciated by other women, while they don't care about the "right" traits.
I said this before because I understand how hard it is for one to accept an idea when all they've been handed in life was the opposite -- but I only repeat myself regarding this because I know it exists. I've seen it lots and I've seen it in healthy relationships.

It always sounds bitter, but you're still putting women on pedestals.

 

[kamya]

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without  the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men).  It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years,  just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile -  late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles.  My feelings  are driven by bitterness, obviously,  just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many  good reasons why anyone should have me. And  the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

I'm probably about to say some honeysuckle that some snowflakes would probably consider sexist. 

I am still pretty good friends with an ex of mine. She's since moved far away but we still talk and meet up a couple of times a year when we can just to catch up. 

Even in her I notice these same tendencies. She's a great person. Positive, outgoing, tons of energy. A people person. Just an overall generically good and decent person. After me she has had an almost endless stream of relationships fall into her lal with practically zero effort on her part. 

Most of the guys she's been with would seem kind of assholish to most people but personally I just think she likes older, strong, and dominant personality types. The guys she gets with are actually imo really awesome guys. Guys that I personally think are a bit out of her league.

But there is always something. Some small issue or problem that she chooses to focus on despite all of the other great things about her partners. I hear all about it every time and every time I try to play devil's advocate. 

Every time eventually there's a breakup and she has a new guy within a week. Her most recent rebound was a younger short guy that she was excited about because "he's so short but he handled it". Now, he was really short so of course she wasn't seriously gonna date him. When I asked for an update I was told she stopped talking to him but "I'm glad he was there at that time because he really helped me get over x guy". Then gives me this gem "They say that the only way to get over a man is to get under a new one. I really feel that there is some truth to that." 

This is coming from an extremely Christian woman. Someone that wants to be a chaplain and really wants a godly man for a husband. I don't really try to judge her or make her feel bad. Obviously we are close and open enough to have these kinds of conversations in the first place. She doesn't mind the shade I give her sometimes and she really is a good friend to me and a decent person. She isn't hurting anyone. She's just trying her best. It's nice to see how things are for the other side.

I've learned many things from her about women and how they are and we have had a lot of candid talks about gender issues like this in the dating world. I think most women know and understand how messed it is to be an average guy in the dating world.

She is pretty average on her own. If she was a man she wouldn't really be anything special. She'd probably have a hard time with women. Probably be in the shoes of most average men. Definitely couldn't be anywhere near as picky. 

It's just how it is. Average women can (if they choose to) find above average or even top men and cycle through them and never have a shortage of men in line. They can be extremely picky and still find a reason to go after someone else.  Over and over. 

Humans love novelty. When things get boring, each new dick provides a whole new box of possibilities!

This isn't just one person. There are other friends, ex's, love interests that I've drawn most of this from. I don't believe women are all the same but there are definitely some pretty hard trends. There are too many other men echoing the same things and having the exact same experiences with women for there not to be some truth to it.

There's no use getting bitter, angry, or jealous about it. Women have the upper hand in dating. Men are advantaged in many other ways. It's just how it is. 

While not all women choose to be this way and not all women want the same things or act completely the same, I do get a feeling that most of these feelings are a uniquely male experience that most women will never be able to fully understand. More effort usually seems to go towards shaming and dismissing rather than understanding anyways.

It would be nice to be able to swipe right on a few good looking women and know that for sure I'd be able to not have to spend the night alone that night.

 

[Paraiyar]

You're not put in a pedestal. Have to work really hard and meet high standards do be "worthy".

And that's a big part of why attraction makes me so angry and why I feel like a second-class citizen.  I have to work really hard and meet high standards to be worthy, and even if I try to learn all I can and do everything correctly it still might get me nowhere.  And some smug ******* will be all too happy to tell me "the universe doesn't owe you anything" with a big honeysuckle-eating smirk that I'd like to wipe off with my knuckles.  Meanwhile, some greasy, low-brow ********* who is still acting like a high school "cool kid", isn't even trying that hard in life or trying to be a good person at all will just spit some slick "game" or act tough or "edgy", and that's all it takes, no hard work, no introspection, no self-improvement, nothing.  I don't know how to do "game", but if I did it no one would believe it so it would get me nowhere. And even if I did, I just don't think it should win because I hate the cocky personality.  It all makes me feel like no amount of work I do will be good enough, or that the level of work I'd need to do is outside of my maximum level of competence. 

I know I bring this up with you quite a bit dude but you keep making these statements unironically. From everything you've told us, you aren't exactly trying hard in life at all, let alone that hard. Maybe things have changed on that front since we last spoke...

 

[TheSkaFish]

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men). It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

Yeah, this is what I'm feeling exactly. I've seen this since puberty too. You're right, it's not just dumb or "bad" women, it's across the board and it sounds like a cliche but it's really not - seeing people fall for arrogance, selfishness, alcohol/drug problems, legal problems, guys who value backwards and just dumb things. That's why it gets me so mad when the Internet feminist types pretty much tell guys like me to shut up and that what we've experienced in our lives isn't real, right before calling us losers. I just read some articles like this a few days ago and it pissed me off so much because of what they do, invalidation and shame.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years, just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile - late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles. My feelings are driven by bitterness, obviously, just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

I feel like you can tell what he's like too, it's the way that he chooses to present himself to the world. I just have problems with people like this. I think success is good and something to aspire to, but you can be successful without arrogance. I always felt that showing off and acting like you are inherently better than others just because, is wrong, immature, tasteless, and possibly insecure himself - he might know he's not that interesting but if he flashes money, it gets covered up. And the frowning. It seems like he's trying really hard to be "cool". The guy sounds like a stereotype to a t.

I don't think you're bitter for not liking this guy, or guys like him. I call them "bullshit artists", because they have made bullshit into an art form, going through life using bragging, smooth talk, glitz, and noise to grease others into giving them money, sex, and power. They're con men, good at the politics of social interactions - mini Trumps, if you will. It's just too bad the rest of the world falls for it.

The problem is, how can us regular guys be more fun than these showmen? Don't be regular, I guess. But how can we be more than that? There's just endless questions.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many good reasons why anyone should have me. And the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

Who are we to criticize? Just people who are fed up with bullshit and who know we aren't worthless. These "right traits" are the problem for me too, I just don't know what they are and how I can adopt them while still being myself. I have to be myself, because I wouldn't make a believable ******. If I tried to be a dudebro or a tough-guy druggie burnout I'd feel like such a moron, I'd feel like a joke but also like I was doing something that I know is wrong and I know better than but am doing it anyway. Can I think of reasons why someone should have me? Sometimes it's hard but sometimes I can think of something. I just feel there's got to be a way.

Don't beat yourself down with the Nice Guy label though. I hate the term, it's like the new three-letter word that starts with "f" that you can't say anymore. It makes niceness seem like weakness, I just think that's absurd.

---

Your other qualities can be highly appreciated by other women, while they don't care about the "right" traits.
I said this before because I understand how hard it is for one to accept an idea when all they've been handed in life was the opposite -- but I only repeat myself regarding this because I know it exists. I've seen it lots and I've seen it in healthy relationships.

I want to believe this, I really do, but it's just so hard when all I've been handed in life has indeed been the opposite too. I don't know where to start believing.

---

Then gives me this gem "They say that the only way to get over a man is to get under a new one. I really feel that there is some truth to that." 

This is coming from an extremely Christian woman. Someone that wants to be a chaplain and really wants a godly man for a husband.

I don't want to insult you by way of saying something about your friend but man...that really makes my head spin.

I don't believe women are all the same but there are definitely some pretty hard trends. There are too many other men echoing the same things and having the exact same experiences with women for there not to be some truth to it.

I'd agree with this too. I know it's not just me. It's other guys here, and I've seen it all over the Internet.

While not all women choose to be this way and not all women want the same things or act completely the same, I do get a feeling that most of these feelings are a uniquely male experience that most women will never be able to fully understand. More effort usually seems to go towards shaming and dismissing rather than understanding anyways.

I really hate the shaming, because we're already struggling. They try to basically tell you that you're inherently inferior. I hate it, but it also makes me fear it, it makes me wonder, can I do anything about this, or are they right and I'm just genetic waste and my position in life is fixed?

I don't want to believe that everyone is just better than me, I feel like it just can't be true. But I don't know because I haven't succeeded.

It would be nice to be able to swipe right on a few good looking women and know that for sure I'd be able to not have to spend the night alone that night.

Same. I'd just love to have the feeling that I can like a girl and know that I have what it takes to probably make it happen. I'd just love to feel like my thoughts, words, actions, my very self has some power, and that people can't just brush me aside or kick me around. This is all part of the same problem I have, all my life I've wanted power because I've felt like I don't have any and I hated that feeling but, I just didn't feel like I had any power. And I'm afraid of being an average guy because it means none of my dreams of more, and of beating the macho bastards in life, will come true. It's important to be able to say I came back to kick the honeysuckle out of the bad boys, that I got my win, even if it's just once but I need it. But I know I'm not a bad guy, I'm not out to rip anyone off. I think I have something to offer and I think I could get more. I don't think I just suck, I think I have value. I'm just not "cool", because I thought it was wrong and it's not natural to me. And I don't know if I can make up for it.

 

[ardour]

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without  the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men).  It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years,  just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile -  late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles.  My feelings  are driven by bitterness, obviously,  just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many  good reasons why anyone should have me. And  the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

I'm probably about to say some honeysuckle that some snowflakes would probably consider sexist. 

I am still pretty good friends with an ex of mine. She's since moved far away but we still talk and meet up a couple of times a year when we can just to catch up. 

Even in her I notice these same tendencies. She's a great person. Positive, outgoing, tons of energy. A people person. Just an overall generically good and decent person. After me she has had an almost endless stream of relationships fall into her lal with practically zero effort on her part. 

Most of the guys she's been with would seem kind of assholish to most people but personally I just think she likes older, strong, and dominant personality types. The guys she gets with are actually imo really awesome guys. Guys that I personally think are a bit out of her league.

But there is always something. Some small issue or problem that she chooses to focus on despite all of the other great things about her partners. I hear all about it every time and every time I try to play devil's advocate. 

Every time eventually there's a breakup and she has a new guy within a week. Her most recent rebound was a younger short guy that she was excited about because "he's so short but he handled it". Now, he was really short so of course she wasn't seriously gonna date him. When I asked for an update I was told she stopped talking to him but "I'm glad he was there at that time because he really helped me get over x guy". Then gives me this gem "They say that the only way to get over a man is to get under a new one. I really feel that there is some truth to that." 

This is coming from an extremely Christian woman. Someone that wants to be a chaplain and really wants a godly man for a husband. I don't really try to judge her or make her feel bad. Obviously we are close and open enough to have these kinds of conversations in the first place. She doesn't mind the shade I give her sometimes and she really is a good friend to me and a decent person. She isn't hurting anyone. She's just trying her best. It's nice to see how things are for the other side.

I've learned many things from her about women and how they are and we have had a lot of candid talks about gender issues like this in the dating world. I think most women know and understand how messed it is to be an average guy in the dating world.

She is pretty average on her own. If she was a man she wouldn't really be anything special. She'd probably have a hard time with women. Probably be in the shoes of most average men. Definitely couldn't be anywhere near as picky. 

It's just how it is. Average women can (if they choose to) find above average or even top men and cycle through them and never have a shortage of men in line. They can be extremely picky and still find a reason to go after someone else.  Over and over. 

Humans love novelty. When things get boring, each new dick provides a whole new box of possibilities!

This isn't just one person. There are other friends, ex's, love interests that I've drawn most of this from. I don't believe women are all the same but there are definitely some pretty hard trends. There are too many other men echoing the same things and having the exact same experiences with women for there not to be some truth to it.

There's no use getting bitter, angry, or jealous about it. Women have the upper hand in dating. Men are advantaged in many other ways. It's just how it is. 

While not all women choose to be this way and not all women want the same things or act completely the same, I do get a feeling that most of these feelings are a uniquely male experience that most women will never be able to fully understand. More effort usually seems to go towards shaming and dismissing rather than understanding anyways.

It would be nice to be able to swipe right on a few good looking women and know that for sure I'd be able to not have to spend the night alone that night.

In my case, it would make it a lot easier to accept if it seemed like they had a genuine bond, that it was about more than cold criteria, or being drawn to status/dominance. I'm not sure why,  I'm alone all the same... but it would. As things stand it's depressing.

Your friend/ex gf sounds like a disaster to be honest. I'm not sure I'd call her that nice either going by the 'branch swinging' that's been going on, since that inevitably means treating people badly.. but maybe as you say, she's a good person in other respects.

 

[M_also_lonely]

People like to repeat the argument that you're better off without  the kind of women who go for this, however that starts to grate a bit when you see otherwise normal, decent, well adjusted women fall for the grown up version of "bad boys" ( i.e. Arrogant, selfish, emotionally unavailable men).  It sounds like a bad cliche until you witness it over and over.

The person I had a minor crush on for the last 2 years,  just got engaged to a Korean guy she'd known 3 months. Going by his facebook profile -  late model Mercedes as his coverpage, wears $1000 sunglasses, I can kind of tell what he's like, and of course he frowns in the engagement photos like he doesn't care, while she smiles.  My feelings  are driven by bitterness, obviously,  just that ... I didn't think that was who she was, or what she wanted.

But there you are; no-one help what they're attracted to, and who am I to criticize. I can't think of many  good reasons why anyone should have me. And  the harsh truth is that in the absence of the right traits whatever other qualities you might have don't seem to matter at all (In other words, this is a typical Nice Guy rant...:/)

I'm probably about to say some honeysuckle that some snowflakes would probably consider sexist. 

I am still pretty good friends with an ex of mine. She's since moved far away but we still talk and meet up a couple of times a year when we can just to catch up. 

Even in her I notice these same tendencies. She's a great person. Positive, outgoing, tons of energy. A people person. Just an overall generically good and decent person. After me she has had an almost endless stream of relationships fall into her lal with practically zero effort on her part. 

Most of the guys she's been with would seem kind of assholish to most people but personally I just think she likes older, strong, and dominant personality types. The guys she gets with are actually imo really awesome guys. Guys that I personally think are a bit out of her league.

But there is always something. Some small issue or problem that she chooses to focus on despite all of the other great things about her partners. I hear all about it every time and every time I try to play devil's advocate. 

Every time eventually there's a breakup and she has a new guy within a week. Her most recent rebound was a younger short guy that she was excited about because "he's so short but he handled it". Now, he was really short so of course she wasn't seriously gonna date him. When I asked for an update I was told she stopped talking to him but "I'm glad he was there at that time because he really helped me get over x guy". Then gives me this gem "They say that the only way to get over a man is to get under a new one. I really feel that there is some truth to that." 

This is coming from an extremely Christian woman. Someone that wants to be a chaplain and really wants a godly man for a husband. I don't really try to judge her or make her feel bad. Obviously we are close and open enough to have these kinds of conversations in the first place. She doesn't mind the shade I give her sometimes and she really is a good friend to me and a decent person. She isn't hurting anyone. She's just trying her best. It's nice to see how things are for the other side.

I've learned many things from her about women and how they are and we have had a lot of candid talks about gender issues like this in the dating world. I think most women know and understand how messed it is to be an average guy in the dating world.

She is pretty average on her own. If she was a man she wouldn't really be anything special. She'd probably have a hard time with women. Probably be in the shoes of most average men. Definitely couldn't be anywhere near as picky. 

It's just how it is. Average women can (if they choose to) find above average or even top men and cycle through them and never have a shortage of men in line. They can be extremely picky and still find a reason to go after someone else.  Over and over. 

Humans love novelty. When things get boring, each new dick provides a whole new box of possibilities!

This isn't just one person. There are other friends, ex's, love interests that I've drawn most of this from. I don't believe women are all the same but there are definitely some pretty hard trends. There are too many other men echoing the same things and having the exact same experiences with women for there not to be some truth to it.

There's no use getting bitter, angry, or jealous about it. Women have the upper hand in dating. Men are advantaged in many other ways. It's just how it is. 

Actually all of this can be described in one word. Its called hypergamy.

 

[kamya]

Your friend/ex gf sounds like a disaster to be honest. I'm not sure I'd call her that nice either going by the 'branch swinging'  that's been going on, since that inevitably means treating people badly.. but maybe as you say, she's a good person in other respects.

Well afaik she's never cheated on anyone. She treats her partners well for the most part and doesn't seem like a gold digger or anything. I don't think she treats anyone poorly. It sucks getting broken up over stupid reasons but break-ups pretty much always suck. It sucked in my case as well but it was for the best. We are much better off as friends. 

She does have a certain personality type that she goes for. I think if her last ex had been Christian they would have gotten married. That was literally the only problem in their relationship. 

I have so many similar stories. Take my roommate/ friend of almost 20 years. He met a girl 1 year ago. She became his first gf. Average attractiveness. She has a degree but just a part time job. Over 50k in student loan debt. A mlm "business". No car. No license. Has to be driven around everywhere. She refuses to apply for jobs. She will cry and shut down if you just even bring the topic up.

After about a year we let her move into his room because she couldn't afford to live with her current roommates and didn't want to move back home. 

Again She's a nice enough girl, but if she were a man she would be seen as a complete loser.

My roommate basically subsidises her whole life and drives her around. She just sits in his room all day and does nothing. Sex is pretty much all she brings to the table. It's amazing what some guys will put up with just for access to regular sex.

Her and I have also talked a lot. Before she knew how close me and my roommate were she would tell me stories about her wild college days. Things her and her friends would do. How she's different now. "Turning over a new leaf" with my roommate. 

My roommate and I talk about business plans and strategies a lot and I commented once that he might be being too greedy in a certain area and it was costing him more overall. She interrupts "I like greed!"

I remember very clearly her story about the guy she went on a few dates with just before meeting my roommate. The very first and only positive thing she mentions is "He was a pharmacist so his financial situation was on point". Literally the first thing she said about the guy. No shame. No self awareness. 

She goes on trips out of state to random conferences for her mom business ever month or two. My roommate never goes or questions any of it. I definitely wouldn't be shocked to find out she's messing around during these trips. 

Now, luckily she is not my problem. While I have my doubt and suspicions about her and my feelings about her life in general I push them to the back of my mind. Just making note of all of the potential signs and red flags. I still give her the benefit of the doubt. She's nice enough to me. And I really hope she is doing her best and trying to turn over a new leaf and isn't just taking advantage of my friend. Until something actually happens I'll stay supportive of their relationship. Hopefully it all works out.

It's very hard to not notice those signs and red flags though when so many women throw them in your face so casually. It can be fun to point out their bs sometimes though. If they don't get passed off and butthurt trying to defend themselves then they are usually pretty cool.

 

[ardour]

Agreeable and friendly enough towards you... but nice? Again I'm not sure I'd agree.

Most of the women I've known are nowhere near as toxic as that. I don't have a bad thing to say about this person, she's hardworking and been nothing but friendly and considerate, made the situation clear without being harsh in the rejection.

 

[kamya]

Agreeable  and friendly enough towards you... but nice? Again I'm not sure I'd agree.  

Most of the women I've known are nowhere near as toxic as that. I don't have a bad thing to say about this person, she's hardworking and been nothing but friendly and considerate, made the situation clear without being harsh in the rejection.

I don't really consider them to be toxic. 

I think it's ok to let people try to change and reinvent themselves. The ex I was talking about has a degree and a good job and her own place. She doesn't really harm anyone. I can see that she really is trying to be a good person. I don't automatically see a high partner count as toxic.

My roommates gf is younger. I wasn't as independent then either. There hasn't been any issues or drama really so far. She cooks good food.

How well do you really know the women that you're comparing them to? Everyone can look ok on the surface if they want to. When you've been in a relationship with someone or are living with the person, being around them constantly, I think it's easier to get a more full picture of the kind of person they are.

 

[DarkSelene]

Romanticizing females because you like them doesn't help.