Redemption come with a price.

[BeyondShy]

Yes, it did. If I didn't go through everything I went through in my life, I wouldn't be the person I am today. Maybe I would be better, but if I chose to dwell on everything that ever happened to me in my life, I would most likely be a miserable person, if not worse. I let go of the past a long time ago and I'm a much better person today because of that. I did actually forgive the people who harmed me, although, I never told many of them that I did, but me forgiving them is not for them, it's for me, so I can let go, so I can move on, so I can be a better person.

How? How the hell did you do it? How the hell do you forgive people for laughing at you because you were so afraid to ask someone to the prom and they found it hilarious? Or be excluded out of countless things that are not even worth the time typing out here?

I move on. Slowly. But I won't ever forget how it was.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yes, it did. If I didn't go through everything I went through in my life, I wouldn't be the person I am today. Maybe I would be better, but if I chose to dwell on everything that ever happened to me in my life, I would most likely be a miserable person, if not worse. I let go of the past a long time ago and I'm a much better person today because of that. I did actually forgive the people who harmed me, although, I never told many of them that I did, but me forgiving them is not for them, it's for me, so I can let go, so I can move on, so I can be a better person.

How? How the hell did you do it? How the hell do you forgive people for laughing at you because you were so afraid to ask someone to the prom and they found it hilarious? Or be excluded out of countless things that are not even worth the time typing out here?

I move on. Slowly. But I won't ever forget how it was.

How? I don't really know if I can answer that. I guess I just got sick and tired of living in a pitiful existence because of things that happened to me that I can't change. They happened. I had to choice of continuing to let them shape my life or to let them go and TRULY move on from them. The only real way to do that, IMO, is forgiveness.

For your prom experience, what do you gain by holding on to that? So some kids laughed at you in high school, why does that still matter? Kids, especially teenagers, are cruel and immature, but that happened so long ago, why are you still holding on to it? Why do some immature kids still hold that power over you?

It's one thing to not forget, but as long as you hold contempt for them, as long as you continue to feel anger or sadness from it, you haven't moved on at all, you are just denying it to yourself.

 

[Xpendable]

And when they proclaim "I Changed" we are supposed to erase all the wrong things they did?

Never said that, but they moved on while you are still stuck dwelling on something that happened in the past. Leave the past where it belongs...in the past. And sometimes when someone asks for forgiveness or apologizes, they are trying to, in a small way, make amends.

Trying to make amends is staying in the past. If they try to apologize then they're stuck in the past as well. Forgiving them won't change what they did. It's like getting out out jail and saying you made your time, but the victims or your crimes won't recover.

Better watch a cartoon to feel better now

[video=youtube]

 

[TheRealCallie]

And when they proclaim "I Changed" we are supposed to erase all the wrong things they did?

Never said that, but they moved on while you are still stuck dwelling on something that happened in the past. Leave the past where it belongs...in the past. And sometimes when someone asks for forgiveness or apologizes, they are trying to, in a small way, make amends.

Trying to make amends is staying in the past. If they try to apologize then they're stuck in the past as well. Forgiving them won't change what they did. It's like getting out out jail and saying you made your time, but the victims or your crimes won't recover.

In a way, but not really, making amends is owning up to your mistakes so you can move forward. It's about learning from your mistakes, it's about correcting what you did wrong so you can be a better person. So if you ever saw someone you did wrong to (and realize you did them wrong and feel bad), you wouldn't feel the need to apologize?

As I said before, it's not a matter of whether you forgive them or not, it's about owning your mistake, it's about admitting you did wrong, it's about at least trying to apologize for it. Sometimes apologizing to someone you did wrong to, such as your example of being in jail and getting out, does more harm than good to the person that was wronged, so it's best not to even try, but that doesn't mean a person can't forgive themselves for doing wrong.

 

[BeyondShy]

How? I don't really know if I can answer that. I guess I just got sick and tired of living in a pitiful existence because of things that happened to me that I can't change. They happened. I had to choice of continuing to let them shape my life or to let them go and TRULY move on from them. The only real way to do that, IMO, is forgiveness.

I've told you this in private and now I will say it in public. You are a very strong person and of the highest quality I've ever had the pleasure to meet. But I can't compare myself to you. I'm not even 1/10th as strong as you.

For your prom experience, what do you gain by holding on to that? So some kids laughed at you in high school, why does that still matter? Kids, especially teenagers, are cruel and immature, but that happened so long ago, why are you still holding on to it? Why do some immature kids still hold that power over you?

Callie, I missed out on the junior and senior dances. I never went. Never even came close to asking someone out. I stayed in my room that night watching TV without knowing it was on. It was an important thing to me that other people ruined for me. Because of this when high school reunions come up I never respond. I mean I can't now and you know why but if they have one they do it without me.

It's one thing to not forget, but as long as you hold contempt for them, as long as you continue to feel anger or sadness from it, you haven't moved on at all, you are just denying it to yourself.

Yes, you're right. I guess I am still holding on to it.

 

[Xpendable]

In a way, but not really, making amends is owning up to your mistakes so you can move forward.

I don't think they deserve that. If they want move forward, that's fine, but they own the image they made for themselves forever. They need to understand the same level of suffering if they truly want forgiveness.

It's about learning from your mistakes, it's about correcting what you did wrong so you can be a better person.

And they win when they were bad and win again when got forgiven. And their victims won't win anything more than a false sense of self righteousness.

So if you ever saw someone you did wrong to (and realize you did them wrong and feel bad), you wouldn't feel the need to apologize?

I don't know, I never did wrong to anyone.

As I said before, it's not a matter of whether you forgive them or not, it's about owning your mistake, it's about admitting you did wrong, it's about at least trying to apologize for it.

That will only make them better for themselves. You can justify yourself and believe you got redemption but for me, a person that is always good is better that some born-again "good person" every time. They'll never be good people in my eyes, because they would always try to compensate for the bad things, making their actions unnatural. Only to equalize but not genuine.

 

[BeyondShy]

I don't know, I never did wrong to anyone.

How do you know that for certain?

I look back and I wonder if I did anything to make these people single me out. I have no idea.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Respect for not acting all buddy-buddy with him just because of the common past and him becoming a better person. Also because you told it to him straight without losing your cool. There are things which cannot be forgiven and are not meant to either, especially after a long time has passed. Some of these people actually believe that the abuse they imposed onto others during youth is easily wiped away like that...some actually forget till they meet their victims again. It's all youth fun and teasing if you're not on the receiving end with painful memories that keep festering for decades. But what's done is done. Part ways, case closed.

+1

I agree that bullying has consequences, and former bullies shouldn't expect those they harassed to let it go just because time passed. They tried to destroy your self-esteem. That is unforgivable. I also respect the OP for speaking his mind and expressing his dislike for the bully, but without losing his cool. I think that's the important part.

It reminds me of my own life. I used to say, if I ever saw my bullies again I'd tell them exactly what I thought of them and that they failed to break me and to curse them out, goad them to fight me, and give them the beating I thought I wanted to give them. But one day I realized that even getting angry at them would only give them what they want. I realized that bullies want a reaction from you, above all things. Whether it is submission or anger, either one validates them as having power over you. To get angry at them would show that I perceived them as a threat, which is what they wanted. I then decided that it would be far better to treat them as a minor annoyance. I could fight them, but even if I won, that requires effort and time - more of both than they are worth because their opinions to me are worth nothing. If I ever see them again, I'll brush them off as dismissively as possible. That way, I neither poison myself by holding on to anger, nor do I disrespect myself by forgiving those who don't deserve forgiveness.

I don't forgive my bullies. I forget them. They're irrelevant to my life, and have no power over it - even during the worst days, they had no power over me and aren't worth thinking twice about. I only wish I'd realized this sooner.

 

[Xpendable]

I don't know, I never did wrong to anyone.

How do you know that for certain?

I look back and I wonder if I did anything to make these people single me out. I have no idea.

Never a wrong big enough to be remembered.

 

[user 115627]

Obviously the whole forgiveness deal is worth a topic in itself, but in these surprise meetings with childhood bullies I only see it on side note. I thought the clear communication about how different one feels about the past was the important part here.

While we're at it though, I do believe that a part of these people seek and need forgiveness from their victims, actively or subconsciously. Or at least they would start dragging this weight along just like you did if you personally denied them their pardon (since most of them aren't bothered till they are suddenly confronted with the consequences of their youthful ignorance). At this point it's not about winning or losing anyway because their present 'mature' self would actually gain if you showed forgiveness.

Should I find myself in this situation though, I'd say: "Sure, go right ahead and seek forgiveness - but not from me. The time for apologies has long expired."

And in case I'd be the culprit, I reckon that I (along with many others) intuitively know when there's no use in tearing old scars open once again. Instead of desperately trying to make amends for past atrocities, you should simply refrain from committing them again in your future.

 

[lonelypanda]

I agree, some things don't deserve forgiveness. It must have felt good to tell him straight up like that. Sorry isn't some magical bandaid that takes it all away, some things become scars you carry for the rest of your life. There's some people that have done things to me that I will never forget or forgive. I don't dwell on these things, the more years that go by the more I've healed and it's myself who's healing me, not the evil person saying sorry. If anyone on my unforgiven list came up to say sorry I'd tell em to take a long walk off a short bridge. I don't need your **** sorry, go say sorry to Jesus cuz Idgaf.

 

[TheSkaFish]

Although I will say that I wish people would stand up for themselves more. People bullying will probably never stop, because that's just how some people are, but at least some might not be so scarred from it.

That being said, I have been picked on. It's not fun. But I'm never going to give anyone so much power in my life that it would ever shut me down for any portion of my life.

A couple of good left hooks to the guy's head and face will make you feel a lot better.

See, that's the solution while you're being picked on. I don't care what anyone says, violence is the only answer sometimes. And I don't care how that sounds. Maybe if kids weren't so coddled and cuddled, and were taught how and when to fight, issues like this wouldn't come about so much.

Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.

I agree absolutely. I do think that not standing up to people when I was in grade through high school definitely got me into the habit of not standing up for myself, not being assertive, not being decisive, not speaking and doing as I really felt, and not thinking of myself as a person who can get what they want in life. I think it had a lot to do with my confidence problems and I think it would have saved me a lot of anger and frustration in other areas of my life if I had stood up for myself as a kid. I think these things are all connected, with the root issue of thinking "I'm not good enough for _____", "I won't try or if I have to try then I won't do my best, because I'm just going to fail", and so on. Accepting abuse from others makes you feel like a victim, but standing up for yourself makes you feel empowered. And the more you do either the more that's who you think you are.

Fighting might not be the only answer but sometimes I do agree that fighting is the best answer, especially when you're a kid and especially when you're being picked on. If the only other choice is submission, then it's best to fight. Otherwise it will just keep going.

I don't blame anyone for not teaching me how and when to fight, though. I just think it was an unfortunate circumstance and I didn't know any better at the time.

---

When I first got my facebook all these people who were not exactly nice to me in school were over joyed to friend me. I was amazed. They legitimately were excited to talk with me. I dropped every one of them. There was this guy that everyone wasn't nice to. I see on his facebook page he is friends with many of his tormentors. I don't understand that.

I am not friends with anyone from my school days. Even if they were not actively bullys if they did nothing about it, they are just as bad.

One time I called out a contractor type service for my home. When he arrived I thought he seemed familiar but didn't think anything of it. But he kept asking these weird questions about my life, was I married, family, and on the third question I realized it was someone from my high school (actually the BFF of one of my crushes) I just came out with it and said your xxx aren't you and he seemed overjoyed to see me again and even promised to give me a big discount and do the work on a Saturday for me. Never did anything with it.

It is really not that I hold a grudge it is just really don't want to go back and don't want to go back with people who have a proven track record of not being a person I think very highly of.

Yeah, it's weird how Facebook works like that sometimes. People "friend" each other, who definitely were not friends. I remember I got a friend request once from the brother of one of my bullies...nope, denied. And one time years ago I even got a request from one of the actual bullies, who had angered me to the point I threw him down. I got a friend request from him on my birthday of all days. Seriously? I was tempted to message him back what I really thought of him and his little clique of preppy douchebags and if he wanted me to throw him down on his head again, but I decided it wasn't worth ruining my mood. Needless to say, I did NOT accept.

I'm also pretty selective of who I have on mine. For the most part I don't go out of my way to "friend" people from high school or earlier, even if they were neutral to me. It's just because that part of my life is past, I'm not going back that way and we really don't have anything to discuss. We don't need to know what we're doing over a decade after the fact. There's a few people I'm interested in staying in touch with because I hold them in high regard and always have, but that's it. Then there's high school people I remove, only to request me back later several times, just to keep on not talking to me. I don't get it.

 

[Jafo]

He doesn't need you to accept his apology to still feel good about himself. The fact that you hold on so strongly to past events is part of why you can't move forward with your life.
People sometimes do shitty things, ALL people, no one is exempt from that. People grow up, people mature, people realize they did wrong and they sometimes try to make it right. All they can do is try, but not getting acceptance for an apology I issue to someone wouldn't stop me from moving on from that part of my life and continuing to grow as a person. Life is full of lessons, it's up to you if you see and listen to those lessons.

Sometimes it depends on what the person has done to you Callie. Some things you can't forget.

And sometimes you choose to dwell on things you can't change, thus putting a hold on your life. When you live so intensely in the past, you can't see the future and can't enjoy the present.

You can't change what happeened in the past, so what good does it do you to focus so much on it? As long as you continue do that, they are winning, not you.

Sorry, but some of us can't be perfect like you. I guess you didn't go through getting bullied and picked on EVERY single day of your life when you went through kindergarten through grade 12. Just think of how much mental and physical abuse that is.

 

[VanillaCreme]

She wasn't saying she's perfect or how she deals with it is perfect. She's just sharing her thoughts. Calm down. No need to get all flustered.

There's various ways to deal with issues like this. No one way is right. Everyone has their own coping mechanism.

 

[BeyondShy]

Sorry, but some of us can't be perfect like you. I guess you didn't go through getting bullied and picked on EVERY single day of your life when you went through kindergarten through grade 12. Just think of how much mental and physical abuse that is.

When did she say she was perfect? She never even implied it. And how do you know what she went through when she was in grade school? I am fed up with the comments that are thrown at this woman.

 

[Xpendable]

She can defend herself.

 

[BeyondShy]

She can defend herself.

NO KIDDING. She doesn't need me to do this for her at all. But this is what friends are for. She gets more than enough of these comments thrown at her and it bugs me.

 

[Xpendable]

NO KIDDING. She doesn't need me to do this for her at all. But this is what friends are for. She gets more than enough of these comments thrown at her and it bugs me.

True friends will tell you when you're wrong instead of defending you no matter what. Not saying she's wrong now, but this may be handy in the future.

 

[VanillaCreme]

True friends will tell you when you're wrong instead of defending you no matter what.

For once, in its rarity, I agree with you. I'd want someone I call a friend to tell me I'm wrong too if they thought I was.

But please, let's not start anything.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Sorry, but some of us can't be perfect like you. I guess you didn't go through getting bullied and picked on EVERY single day of your life when you went through kindergarten through grade 12. Just think of how much mental and physical abuse that is.

lol, it's cute how you think my life has been perfect. You'd be surprised what I've been through in my life. Just because I don't talk about what I've been through doesn't mean I haven't been through anything.