Fat Bashing.

[user 115627]

Yes, the medical establishment that makes tons of money off dieting and stomach stapling surgery has established that being morbidly obese is CORRELATED with having multi-diseases. But that in no way proves causation. It is akin to saying that males have a higher correlation with heart disease thus, it is a fact that people who are male have a much higher risk of heart disease. Being male IS unhealthy.

It is a fact of life that being a human leads to multi diseases based on what you do or don't do. The only difference with being morbidly obese is that it is something that is visible that people arrogantly think they can make judgments off of.

I respectfully disagree and I'm someone that holds certain fringe opinions himself. But I'm interested in what evidence would indeed establish causation instead of correlation of morbid obesity to a multitude of diseases to you? I don't doubt that some doctors will be all too eager to fight an illness by fixing what is most obvious flaw to the eye in order to cure the patient. But this is essentially just a Not-all defense. I think the consensus is that certain diseases appear more often than not together with obesity.

I'm afraid castrating oneself wouldn't be able to lower the chances of heart disease caused by "maleness". I think a rather simple question to any fat person in doctor's office would be "Have you been born morbidly obese or did you suffer from similar symptoms of X when you were not morbidly obese yet?"

Personally I couldn't look at a morbidly obese person, barely able to walk without swinging their body left and right and constantly out of breathe while thinking to myself that he/she is just as able-bodied and healthy as the average bloke. And no, so far I have not seen a single morbidly obese person that had no visible trouble moving themselves or being physically active without breaking into a sweat rather quickly. I realize this is not the same as being more prone to certain diseases but I find the causation between fatigue and obesity rather...obvious. That's just my opinion.

Another observation I made last week with 'customers'. Last week we had a woman who was morbidly obese, who the staff choose to call disgusting behind her back, but not the heroin addict who had stabbed someone for drug money, or the woman who had drunk driven her car into someone in her street while going to the shop for more alcohol.

They should not be saying anything anyway, but it was interesting to see certain members of staff who they found 'disgusting'. In fact one member of staff kept going on and on about it.

Does everyone know or recall that the heroin addict is indeed a heroin addict who stabbed someone and that the woman has killed someone while drunk-driving? And are they easily recognizable as substance abusers? That's the real question to me. It matters a lot what is visible and what is not. That's not meant to excuse, merely to understand what might go on in these people's heads...

 

[kamya]

What if we fat shame ourselves:O Is that ok?

I think it can show low self esteem and a lack of discipline and self control. There are different levels of it but the heavier you get the more id say those traits apply.

 

[Serenia]

Yes, the medical establishment that makes tons of money off dieting and stomach stapling surgery has established that being morbidly obese is CORRELATED with having multi-diseases. But that in no way proves causation. It is akin to saying that males have a higher correlation with heart disease thus, it is a fact that people who are male have a much higher risk of heart disease. Being male IS unhealthy.

It is a fact of life that being a human leads to multi diseases based on what you do or don't do. The only difference with being morbidly obese is that it is something that is visible that people arrogantly think they can make judgments off of.

I respectfully disagree and I'm someone that holds certain fringe opinions himself. But I'm interested in what evidence would indeed establish causation instead of correlation of morbid obesity to a multitude of diseases to you? I don't doubt that some doctors will be all too eager to fight an illness by fixing what is most obvious flaw to the eye in order to cure the patient. But this is essentially just a Not-all defense. I think the consensus is that certain diseases appear more often than not together with obesity.

I'm afraid castrating oneself wouldn't be able to lower the chances of heart disease caused by "maleness". I think a rather simple question to any fat person in doctor's office would be "Have you been born morbidly obese or did you suffer from similar symptoms of X when you were not morbidly obese yet?"

Personally I couldn't look at a morbidly obese person, barely able to walk without swinging their body left and right and constantly out of breathe while thinking to myself that he/she is just as able-bodied and healthy as the average bloke. And no, so far I have not seen a single morbidly obese person that had no visible trouble moving themselves or being physically active without breaking into a sweat rather quickly. I realize this is not the same as being more prone to certain diseases but I find the causation between fatigue and obesity rather...obvious. That's just my opinion.

Another observation I made last week with 'customers'. Last week we had a woman who was morbidly obese, who the staff choose to call disgusting behind her back, but not the heroin addict who had stabbed someone for drug money, or the woman who had drunk driven her car into someone in her street while going to the shop for more alcohol.

They should not be saying anything anyway, but it was interesting to see certain members of staff who they found 'disgusting'. In fact one member of staff kept going on and on about it.

Does everyone know or recall that the heroin addict is indeed a heroin addict who stabbed someone and that the woman has killed someone while drunk-driving? And are they easily recognizable as substance abusers? That's the real question to me. It matters a lot what is visible and what is not. That's not meant to excuse, merely to understand what might go on in these people's heads...

I don't need to recall anything, I have had the facts sat on my desk and sat in meetings regardj g these 'customers' as well as hearing them myself. We do know they are heroin addicts as we are dealing with her coming off it, and listening to her screaming for it, she is easily recongnizable as a drug abuser, her teeth have fallen out she is underweight from forgeting to eat, the needle tracks all over body, the colour of her skin, the brain damage, her speech, her eyes. Along with the Detetives and police presence, as well as the documents that are with her detailing her and the incident and also they openly talk of what happened. The drunk driver did not kill the person she hit. She is an arsehole she doesn't care, she admits that, the person was in her way on the crossing. We are also dealing with the consequences of her actions.

 

[TheRealCallie]

What if we fat shame ourselves:O Is that ok?

I think it can show low self esteem and a lack of discipline and self control. There are different levels of it but the heavier you get the more id say those traits apply.

[video=youtube]

 

[user 115627]

I don't need to recall anything, I have had the facts sat on my desk and sat in meetings regardj g these 'customers' as well as hearing them myself. We do know they are heroin addicts as we are dealing with her coming off it, and listening to her screaming for it, she is easily recongnizable as a drug abuser, her teeth have fallen out she is underweight from forgeting to eat, the needle tracks all over body, the colour of her skin, the brain damage, her speech, her eyes. Along with the Detetives and police presence, as well as the documents that are with her detailing her and the incident and also they openly talk of what happened. The drunk driver did not kill the person she hit. She is an arsehole she doesn't care, she admits that, the person was in her way on the crossing. We are also dealing with the consequences of her actions.

Fair enough then, Serenia. I didn't recall that dealing with these cases is actually your profession. It only occured to me right now within this post. The use of the word "customer" confused me in that regard.

Anyways, that's it. I cannot induce any reason into this double-standard.

 

[Mick Travis]

Yay! It's video time!

[youtube]7PCkvCPvDXk[/youtube]

[youtube]yDSK91mUNLU[/youtube]

 

[LonelySutton]

nI respectfully disagree and I'm someone that holds certain fringe opinions himself. But I'm interested in what evidence would indeed establish causation instead of correlation of morbid obesity to a multitude of diseases to you?

Have they ever actually shown that being morbidly obese leads to anything directly?

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yay! It's video time!

[youtube]7PCkvCPvDXk[/youtube]

HA, the person who makes a song like this and encouraged bigger people to own their bodies and be proud loses weight rather quickly when she gets famous....

 

[Mick Travis]

loses weight rather quickly when she gets famous....

My girlfriend used to like her. Now, I think she's a bit jealous. My girlfriend is about foot shorter than I am, and she's just recently gotten down to my current weight.

 

[EmilyFoxSeaton]

I find the causation between fatigue and obesity rather...obvious. That's just my opinion.

And that is why fat and health shaming is allowed to continue. I mentioned the very true example that Fat stores Vitamin D. So fat people have less Vitamin D circulating in their blood. Accordingly they are vitamin d deficient. Vitamin D has been shown to assist with a full spectrum of disease. Including, heart disease; diabetes; and respiratory disorders.

So if a morbidly obese patient comes to a doctor and says I have diabetes; heart issues and I am having trouble breathing... their doctor goes.. lose weight. But their problem is vitamin D deficiency for their weight. A simple supplement at the right amount for their weight, could solve all of it. Losing weight may, or may not, solve the problem but the medical community flippantly assumes it is the cure (because they know most people won't be able to do it or do it enough and thus they can blame their patient)

If there was one disease that was exclusive to morbidly obese people I could see it but there isn't.

There are some morbidly obese people who can't walk or breathe. But there are some who can. So isn't that an issue of being in shape for their weight? There are thin people who can't walk or get easily winded. No one talks about them because they are thin.

If the body does not take measures to reduce your weight on its own, why does the medical community assume that being morbidly obese is a problem. Pure prejudice. Your body has extremely powerful tools to stop you from getting too fat... and yet, in some people it doesn't... shouldn't we maybe see if our body knows best or some fat shaming doctor does?

 

[TheRealCallie]

I would wager that morbidly obese people don't like going out in the heat as they are more susceptible to heat stroke and a lot of sweating. The sun is where quite a few people get their vitamin D. I'm deficient in Vitamin D because I hate the sun and avoid it at all costs.

 

[Mick Travis]

There are thin people who can't walk or get easily winded. No one talks about them because they are thin.

Try being the scrawny kid with asthma.

 

[TheRealCallie]

There are thin people who can't walk or get easily winded. No one talks about them because they are thin.

I believe I already stated, as well as other people that I got more honeysuckle for being too thin than I ever did for being too fat.
So yeah, people DO talk about them....

 

[VanillaCreme]

You seemed to of missed my point, like I said in my entire post I too am one of these people who take up more space than the seat is designed for due to long legs, but I am atleast polite enough to acknowledge and apologise to any discomfort I may cause to those around me. When fat people don't do the same it is annoying, some fat people do apologise and I respect them the more for showing consideration and have no problems.

So, you're basically saying that it's just people being rude about where their bodies land. Because I have to say that as a fat person, and a person in general, I try my best not to get into people's personal space, as I don't like them in mine. And if my blubber is out of control, I do apologize. So, I totally get what you're saying. Because you'd be surprised how many folks don't care if they're in someone's way, be it from being tall or fat or whatever else.

 

[user 115627]

And that is why fat and health shaming is allowed to continue. I mentioned the very true example that Fat stores Vitamin D. So fat people have less Vitamin D circulating in their blood. Accordingly they are vitamin d deficient. Vitamin D has been shown to assist with a full spectrum of disease. Including, heart disease; diabetes; and respiratory disorders.

So if a morbidly obese patient comes to a doctor and says I have diabetes; heart issues and I am having trouble breathing... their doctor goes.. lose weight. But their problem is vitamin D deficiency for their weight. A simple supplement at the right amount for their weight, could solve all of it. Losing weight may, or may not, solve the problem but the medical community flippantly assumes it is the cure (because they know most people won't be able to do it or do it enough and thus they can blame their patient)

I think your argument rests on vitamin D deficiency being the main contributor to heart disease, diabetes and respiratory disorders which would validate the statement that doctors constantly misdiagnose and consequently mistreat a morbidly obese patient with said symptoms. But to me it looks like you followed quite a stretched way of reasoning between those points. I already argued that blindly diagnosing weight as the main cause of an illness can happen yet shouldn't happen.

If there was one disease that was exclusive to morbidly obese people I could see it but there isn't.

Nobody argued for exclusiveness. I argued likeliness.

There are some morbidly obese people who can't walk or breathe. But there are some who can. So isn't that an issue of being in shape for their weight? There are thin people who can't walk or get easily winded. No one talks about them because they are thin.

"Some" can't. "Some" can. Nothing here gives any concrete statement on likeliness.

If the body does not take measures to reduce your weight on its own, why does the medical community assume that being morbidly obese is a problem. Pure prejudice. Your body has extremely powerful tools to stop you from getting too fat... and yet, in some people it doesn't... shouldn't we maybe see if our body knows best or some fat shaming doctor does?

Still stuck "some". We're reaching a stalemate here. If I catch you eating five super-sized meals a day and not even going for a walk, I'll probably still assume that your obesity is not natural and that your body's "powerful tools" are not strong enough to counteract your choices.

 

[EmilyFoxSeaton]

I think your argument rests on vitamin D deficiency being the main contributor to heart disease, diabetes and respiratory disorders which would validate the statement that doctors constantly misdiagnose and consequently mistreat a morbidly obese patient with said symptoms.

No I am saying that is just one example of a variable that COULD be the cause of these issues that has nothing to do with morbid obesity, but yet is laid at is feet as if that is the end of the conversation. No one has ever done the research. It is just a blind simpleton assumption made by so called thinking people and doctors. So when people say that being morbidly obese is a health problem, they are not really sure of that. You can be morbidly obese and not have a single health issue. Being human makes you prone to may different health problems. Losing weight could resolve those issues or, not at all.

Still stuck "some". We're reaching a stalemate here. If I catch you eating five super-sized meals a day and not even going for a walk, I'll probably still assume that your obesity is not natural and that your body's "powerful tools" are not strong enough to counteract your choices.

If it is some then I don't see the difference between a morbidly obese person and a person. Everyone has potential diseases. The hypothesis here is that morbidly obese people are more prone to it than others and therefore "they should do something about that." But if these issues are not causative than it wouldn't be anyone's business how fat or not someone was. Now they get to walk around going "oh but the health" when that is based on shaky ground. But no one cares to explore that because they wouldn't have their moral superiority; diet programs; and multi million dollar surgery hospitals.

Back to the blame game again... morbidly obese has to be some flat slob that chooses to indulge in 5 happy meals per day. Right back to sad stereotypes so that the thing among you can feel all superior. Isn't that fat bashing?

 

[TheRealCallie]

And you've looked at every study done to make the claim that it's never been done?

And yeah, sorry, but if you are eating a shitload of fast food every day, then yeah, the blame is mostly on you.

 

[EmilyFoxSeaton]

So, you're basically saying that it's just people being rude about where their bodies land. Because I have to say that as a fat person, and a person in general, I try my best not to get into people's personal space, as I don't like them in mine.

But again, it is an issue that applies to everyone, period. Everyone can take up too much space... small large or not. Just another way to fat bash. But pretending this is a known common problem with regard to fat people. Every human being that is taking up too much space or sitting on someone else, period, should apologize for it. Not in anyway more common to fat people.

 

[EmilyFoxSeaton]

And you've looked at every study done to make the claim that it's never been done?And yeah, sorry, but if you are eating a shitload of fast food every day, then yeah, the blame is mostly on you.

And have you? But I have done way more research than any thin person.

Yes if you are eating too many calories a day the blame is on you. The fat bashing is presuming that anyone who is fat does that.

 

[TheRealCallie]

And you've looked at every study done to make the claim that it's never been done?And yeah, sorry, but if you are eating a shitload of fast food every day, then yeah, the blame is mostly on you.

And have you? But I have done way more research than any thin person.

Yes if you are eating too many calories a day the blame is on you. The fat bashing is presuming that anyone who is fat does that.

You can't possibly imagine how much research I've done on a variety of topics, so you can't make that claim either. But, I never claimed that something is exactly this way or that way, as you have.

Rodent never said all fat people do that, now did he? He said IF....
But if you are eating fast food, chances are near 100% that you are eating too many calories a day, whether you are fat or thin