Human Value

[Locke]

Ah, ignoring me now! The way of the coward: Run or hide at the first sight of trouble. Good job! Your parents must be so proud of you.

I get banned from every forum I join. People hate me.

Do you really not understand why people hate you?! Lol, I almost feel sorry for you. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you understand why, but you're just not getting it. I guess I'll have to post every time you make a thread as sick and twisted as this one, and maybe you will understand eventually. I kind of doubt it, but pointing out how disturbing you are might be entertaining for a while.

 

[Boring-Weirdo]

Ah, ignoring me now! The way of the coward: Run or hide at the first sight of trouble. Good job! Your parents must be so proud of you.

You didn't ask me a question or provide a rebuttal to a statement; what was I supposed to say to you? I have no interest in making personal attacks, so unless you have something to contribute to the discussion there's no reason to acknowledge you.

 

[EveWasFramed]

OK...everyone settle down.

 

[Locke]

Ah, ignoring me now! The way of the coward: Run or hide at the first sight of trouble. Good job! Your parents must be so proud of you.

You didn't ask me a question or provide a rebuttal to a statement; what was I supposed to say to you? I have no interest in making personal attacks, so unless you have something to contribute to the discussion there's no reason to acknowledge you.

I have plenty to contribute. Everything I've said is based on your posts. You don't deny that you are sexist, cowardly and have sociopathic leanings. These are all things you admitted yourself before I posted here. I believe you are unintelligent, because your views are. Rating people based on what they look like is shallow, and saying as much is contributing to the conversation.

If you take these statements as an insult even though you said most of them first, that's really your problem, not mine. I do find it hilarious that even knowing all of this about yourself, you still don't understand why people hate you.

 

[MrE1986]

In the last hour i might have said some pretty stupid things, but were you asking people to value their entire worth out of ten or have i misread this?

 

[a lonely person]

Dude determinism has no practical aplication for anything, of course the article has to asume you make your own destiny. If someone reads it it may help him look at the things more objectively and to know where his/her problems are, and then maybe do something to improve his life. If that person believes in destiny maybe he wont even try. But either if destiny is or isnt a thing, both cases can still occur, the person in the first case can still benefit, weather he feely choses to change his attitude, or it was just a consequence of all his past experiences + reading the article, is irrelevant.

 

[MTrip]

It seems I can't really win with my brand of sarcasm. Some people get it (like rdor did, this time) but others think I'm being completely literal. I could use more winks or something but that kinda takes something out of it, IMO.

I understood your sarcasm immediately &, frankly, I think it's good in a quiet way...nicely done. A basic principle of sarcasm is that it's only people who have sarcastic wit themselves who "get it" when sarcasm is delivered.

 

[EveWasFramed]

I understood your sarcasm immediately &, frankly, I think it's good in a quiet way...nicely done. A basic principle of sarcasm is that it's only people who have sarcastic wit themselves who "get it" when sarcasm is delivered.

Yes, but sometimes the delivery method plays a part in that. You can deliver something a lot better with a shovel than you can a teaspoon, lol!!!!

 

[TropicalStarfish]

"Saying that you're a nice guy is like a restaurant whose only selling point is that the food doesn't make you sick. You're like a new movie whose title is This Movie Is in English, and its tagline is "The actors are clearly visible.""

lol this cracked me up. "Eat at Jeff's! The food won't make you sick!" LOL

 

[Boring-Weirdo]

OK...everyone settle down.

Is the thread lock coming? A banning perhaps? Mmm...

I have plenty to contribute. Everything I've said is based on your posts. You don't deny that you are sexist, cowardly and have sociopathic leanings. These are all things you admitted yourself before I posted here. I believe you are unintelligent, because your views are.

That's an assessment of me, not relevant to the topic of discussion.

Rating people based on what they look like is shallow, and saying as much is contributing to the conversation.

I'm a nihilist - I don't believe in objective values. Also, I am willing to take just about any female as a lover. Also, I sympathize with those whom were handed the short end of the genetic stick (I am one of them myself). Also, I don't posit that people judge each other entirely on appearance, but merely that it is part of the assessment.

This thread is about judging people in context of whom you would want to be in a relationship with. If we didn't judge each other, any other person would be suitable for a relationship. It is subjective, yes - but it would be difficult to deny some qualities are typically seen as appealing while others are not.

I am sorry you find this thread, and myself, so infuriating - but you've made your point. It is not I alone who assume this human value judgement phenomena to be true, by the way, but many others whom posted in this topic as well.

I started this thread with a purpose, not to make people feel bad, but for people to realistically assess themselves and what they look for in another person. I thought it may prove useful for people whom are unable to find a relationship and may be searching for reasons.

If you take these statements as an insult even though you said most of them first, that's really your problem, not mine. I do find it hilarious that even knowing all of this about yourself, you still don't understand why people hate you.

I don't feel insulted in the slightest. You don't like me, I get it (even though you don't know me). Can we move on?

I don't understand why people hate me. My views may be different, even unpopular, but I do not resort to personal attacks or go out of my way to offend others. In fact, I try to be polite and considerate of others.

In the last hour i might have said some pretty stupid things, but were you asking people to value their entire worth out of ten or have i misread this?

Partly, yes. I wanted people to assess their desirability on a scale from one to ten, and maybe discuss how they came to that conclusion.

I have not been successful in my romantic endeavors... Now why is that? Can you not see the use, or at least relevancy, of such a discussion?

---

Dude determinism has no practical aplication for anything, of course the article has to asume you make your own destiny. If someone reads it it may help him look at the things more objectively and to know where his/her problems are, and then maybe do something to improve his life. If that person believes in destiny maybe he wont even try. But either if destiny is or isnt a thing, both cases can still occur, the person in the first case can still benefit, weather he feely choses to change his attitude, or it was just a consequence of all his past experiences + reading the article, is irrelevant.

I would have to disagree that "determinism has no practical aplication for anything". If we do not have free-will, we are not responsible for any of our actions. That means that both guilt and pride are illogical, and no one can be held morally accountable for anything. With this knowledge the idea of "justice" takes on a different meaning. Is our goal to hurt those who hurt others, even though it was not their fault to begin with, or are we merely trying to discourage and hopefully rehabilitate social deviants?

It's the difference between stating "this person is bad" or "this person's actions caused others pain".

Also, we cannot hold those whom are unsuccessful responsible for their plight. If two people want to be successful, and one succeeds and one does not - what is our conclusion? That the first one "deserved" it more?

Determinism doesn't play a huge part in my distaste for the judgmental tone of the article. Rather this: if a mentally-disabled person fails to become a quantum physicist, do we tell them to "pull yourself up by your own boot-straps"? Likewise, someone with other, less obvious, difficulties may have to temper their expectations of themselves. This article does not acknowledge that success comes far easier to some than it does to others, or that success may even be unattainable for some people.

Basically, this article is kicking people while they are down. "You are a failure? Well it's your fault. You didn't work hard enough for it." I personally find that sentiment offensive, and incorrect.

 

[a lonely person]

Dude determinism has no practical aplication for anything, of course the article has to asume you make your own destiny. If someone reads it it may help him look at the things more objectively and to know where his/her problems are, and then maybe do something to improve his life. If that person believes in destiny maybe he wont even try. But either if destiny is or isnt a thing, both cases can still occur, the person in the first case can still benefit, weather he feely choses to change his attitude, or it was just a consequence of all his past experiences + reading the article, is irrelevant.

I would have to disagree that "determinism has no practical aplication for anything". If we do not have free-will, we are not responsible for any of our actions. That means that both guilt and pride are illogical, and no one can be held morally accountable for anything. With this knowledge the idea of "justice" takes on a different meaning. Is our goal to hurt those who hurt others, even though it was not their fault to begin with, or are we merely trying to discourage and hopefully rehabilitate social deviants?

It's the difference between stating "this person is bad" or "this person's actions caused others pain".

Also, we cannot hold those whom are unsuccessful responsible for their plight. If two people want to be successful, and one succeeds and one does not - what is our conclusion? That the first one "deserved" it more?

Determinism doesn't play a huge part in my distaste for the judgmental tone of the article. Rather this: if a mentally-disabled person fails to become a quantum physicist, do we tell them to "pull yourself up by your own boot-straps"? Likewise, someone with other, less obvious, difficulties may have to temper their expectations of themselves. This article does not acknowledge that success comes far easier to some than it does to others, or that success may even be unattainable for some people.

Basically, this article is kicking people while they are down. "You are a failure? Well it's your fault. You didn't work hard enough for it." I personally find that sentiment offensive, and incorrect.

Do you think the article should have had a mention about mentally disabled people? could you make some other specific point with a citation instead of saying "this is what I think the article wants to say"?

 

[Boring-Weirdo]

From http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/
Does that break your heart? OK, so now what? Are you going to mope about it, or are you going to learn how to do surgery? It's up to you, but don't complain about how girls fall for jerks; they fall for those jerks because those jerks have other things they can offer.

Realistically, how many of us can "learn how to do surgery"?

See, because that second one could very well require giving up many of your favorite hobbies and paying more attention to your appearance, and God knows what else. You might even have to change your personality.

How many of us successfully change our personality, especially deliberately?

"But I'm not good at anything!" Well, I have good news -- throw enough hours of repetition at it and you can get sort of good at anything.

....really?

The good news is that the sheer act of practicing will help you come out of your shell -- I got through years of tedious office work because I knew that I was learning a unique skill on the side.

Not in my experience. I became more isolated as I worked, and more social when I gave up.

Because in my non-expert opinion, you don't hate yourself because you have low self-esteem, or because other people were mean to you. You hate yourself because you don't do anything. Not even you can just "love you for you" -- that's why you're miserable

Yep, and "she was asking for it" (ie this is victim blaming). Also, I don't hate myself - but would if I was contributing to humanity.

Because all I'm asking you to do is apply the same standard to yourself that you apply to everyone else.

I don't apply the stated standards to myself or others. I don't care if you wrote the best book in the world, or you are a surgeon. I'm a nihilist and misanthrope.

And so on. Remember, misery is comfortable. It's why so many people prefer it. Happiness takes effort.

People prefer misery. Does that need refuting?

Okay, that's enough.

 

[MTrip]

I disagree that there is no such thing as determinism (though I don't subscribe wholly to any particular kind as doing so is simplistic), & in fact have a difficult time believing in free will. Perhaps clarification will help here: Human decisions do occur. Individuals make them. But no decision is truly free. We have limited ability to make choices. The factors that hem our decisions in--genetic predispositions in character, physical limitations (which may not necessarily be genetic. If you can't climb Everest because you're a paraplegic due to getting hit by a car, that is not a hereditary condition), being unaware that certain options are available or just not being in the right place at the right time--can be classified as "the fates" if we wish. Fate need not be some ill-defined mystical notion.

I like the link to the Cracked article. Above all it urges the reader to take control of those areas of life that he can control, & exert effort to succeed. We all need to hear that sooner or later.

 

[theraab]

Dude, if you want to hide behind "I'm a nihilist" and "I'm a determinist" as an excuse for why you're miserable, that's up to you - it's not any of our lives you are wasting with that attitude. But you are mistaken if you believe that sitting idly by while life passes gives you the same chances at a better life as putting forth an effort and trying to make a better life.

So, wah, wah, wah, life is honeysuckle so I won't try - and then I'll say that trying doesn't make a difference.

 

[Boring-Weirdo]

I like the link to the Cracked article. Above all it urges the reader to take control of those areas of life that he can control, & exert effort to succeed. [/color][/font]

I agree.

It's my opinion that people already do as much as they can to enjoy life though. I never choose to be miserable, and I did my damnedest to not be. All of my effort amounted to little. If I could have changed, I would have.

Maybe this article has helped others, in that case I suppose it served some purpose. I have a feeling it insulted many more than it helped though.

 

[a lonely person]

Ok, its not that I want to be ofensive but there seems to be some kind of problem in your reading comprehension.

The first one, If you understood the context, has nothing to do with surgery.
About the second situation, you cant really know.
The third one is true.

Now, he says all his office hours helped him to learn some unique skills on the side, and you say "Not in my experience. I became more isolated... and more social when I gave up" dude, wtf! did he say "All my office hours helped me getting more friends and social"?! no, he did not say that.

Now the one that follows, I must also asume theres a comprehension problem since I dont see how what you wrote matches in any way what you quoted.

Now this

Because all I'm asking you to do is apply the same standard to yourself that you apply to everyone else

.

I don't apply the stated standards to myself or others. I don't care if you wrote the best book in the world, or you are a surgeon. I'm a nihilist and misanthrope.

Another misunderstanding of what the sentence you quoted means.

I cant even argue or refute your points if you cant underdstand simple reading.

 

[Boring-Weirdo]

Dude, if you want to hide behind "I'm a nihilist" and "I'm a determinist" as an excuse for why you're miserable, that's up to you - it's not any of our lives you are wasting with that attitude. But you are mistaken if you believe that sitting idly by while life passes gives you the same chances at a better life as putting forth an effort and trying to make a better life.

So, wah, wah, wah, life is honeysuckle so I won't try - and then I'll say that trying doesn't make a difference.

I'm not miserable. I'm pretty happy, and my life is mostly as I'd like it. I just need sexual partners... And to that end I am using my best efforts to meet that goal.

---

Ok, its not that I want to be ofensive but there seems to be some kind of problem in your reading comprehension.

No problem. You've been mostly respectful and I am fine with reading other peoples' point of view.

The first one, If you understood the context, has nothing to do with surgery.

Well, surgery could be replaced with any skill. But not any skill can be learned, and in fact many of the most worthwhile ones are only rarely acquired because the requirements are so steep.

About the second situation, you cant really know.

The third one is true.

I have tried to change my own personality and become good at skills through effort and hard-work, both unsuccessfully.

Now, he says all his office hours helped him to learn some unique skills on the side, and you say "Not in my experience. I became more isolated... and more social when I gave up" dude, wtf! did he say "All my office hours helped me getting more friends and social"?!

He said "the sheer act of practicing will help you come out of your shell". The sheer act of practicing drove me deeper into my shell.

Now the one that follows, I must also asume theres a comprehension problem since I dont see how what you wrote matches in any way what you quoted.

I didn't hate myself because I didn't do anything. I did a lot. I liked myself better when I stopped doing productive activities.

My major problem is that he said "You hate yourself because you don't do anything". The insulting part is that he believes people hate themselves because of something they do, or don't do. I think depression is often caused by chemical imbalance, not a lack of accomplishment. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/07/24/depression-happens-to-successful-people/

Another misunderstanding of what the sentence you quoted means.

This is in reference to judging yourself using the same standards you use to judge others. The criteria he uses for judging people (producing) is not the same criteria I use for judging people.

I cant even argue or refute your points if you cant underdstand simple reading.

I apologize, I am of below average intelligence, and in some ways disconnected from mainstream thinking - or "common sense".

 

[SofiasMami]

Boring Weirdo, if you're looking to increase your "desireability" as it were, you can start by making yourself more affable and congenial.
When you're reacting to someone or something, stop, then say and do the opposite of what you would normally do. Pretend it's Opposite Day.
Speaking as someone with a uterus & some ovaries, no woman finds misogyny hot or attractive. A little respect goes a long way.

-Teresa

 

[Solivagant]

It seems I can't really win with my brand of sarcasm. Some people get it (like rdor did, this time) but others think I'm being completely literal. I could use more winks or something but that kinda takes something out of it, IMO.

I understood your sarcasm immediately &, frankly, I think it's good in a quiet way...nicely done. A basic principle of sarcasm is that it's only people who have sarcastic wit themselves who "get it" when sarcasm is delivered.

^ I thought the sarcasm was pretty obvious, I just didn't find the "joke" all that amusing. Sorry Batman.

People who are unfamiliar with your regular posts here may have a harder time getting it. I've seen others post the same statements and be totally serious about it, so someone who doesn't know you may be more likely to take you literally.

 

[ardour]

Rating women out of 10 is obnoxious and immature. Still it's rare for people to enter relationships with those they have absolutely no physical attraction to.

That doesn't mean only the stereotypes count; there's all sorts of variety from the 'conventional' to men and women who fall outside this but are still considered 'cute', depending on who's looking. Even here though there seem to be constants to do with bone structure of the face etc. (very depressing for those of us not so blessed)

If we're being honest most of us wouldn't want to be with someone who's appreciation was just at the platonic level. I guess if someone could grow to find you attractive that would be different.