My extensive rant on women, relationships, dating, PUA, and society

[Lollipop286]

And even if her tone is bitter, she's fully entitled to be, without having to justify her feelings to you.

If she's entitled to be bitter, why is the OP not entitled to be bitter?

Furthermore, you say "until you start approaching guys and asking guys out ..." without having the slightest clue on what she has or hasn't done regarding this. Get a grip.

I just asked her in my previous post about all that stuff and she ignored it. Probably because she doesn't do those things.

And finally: You agree with the OP? Seriously?

I agree with OP in the sense that I believe women have it easier than men in the dating scene. I didn't say they have it easy, just easier than men, there is a difference.

Most of their difficulties though, they bring upon themselves. For example, many women expect to get approached and asked out by guys. They don't have any right to complain about not having a BF or not finding the right guy when they don't approach and ask guys out themselves. What do you expect when you rely on guys to ask you out? You have to deal with what's presented to you. And if nobody approaches you or the wrong guys approach you, and you don't try to get someone yourself, then you deserve to have no one. That's the consequence of being lazy.

After reading all the responses from everyone on this thread, you really believe the whole dating scenario is easy on girls, and that the "system" is "rigged"? If so, I give up trying to teach you kids any common sense. You're on your own.

Honestly, this thread wasn't exactly a fair debate.. most of it was bashing. You expect me to base my point of view on some dumb forum bashing?

Yeah, sometimes the girl won't want to go on a date with you because she doesn't like the way you look. So what!? Go find someone who DOES.

Yeah, you never said anything about the guys which NOBODY finds attractive. Should they keep chasing their tail the rest of their lives?

To imply there is no such thing as "ugly" people when there are "good looking" people in this world is a bunch of politically correct nonsense. The fact is that there are ugly people that will never get anybody.

The majority of people, both men and women, judge looks to some extent. Those that don't are rare exceptions to the rule. And most people that say they don't are liars.

Well..I guess you have to get someone who is ugly too

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Lmao.....
Thats totally worng dude.
Why dont you just tell him the truth..

All chicks wanna fresia...they just wanna fresia him. .

---

Or he just need to find a codependent chick....shell stick to him loike fucken crazy glue.

 

[Lollipop286]

I guess I'm not a chick then.

 

[mintymint]

I guess I'm not a chick then.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

I guess I'm not a chick then.

WhAT dose that have anything to do with you liking or not liking chicks?

I dont assume anything...

 

[Equinox]

Oh, hello! Questions! Loving it!

If she's entitled to be bitter, why is the OP not entitled to be bitter?

He IS entitled to be bitter, and I don't believe I've said otherwise. He is NOT, however, entitled to bash women, accusing them of conspiring against men, of being shallow, and basically generalizing all women in a 100% negative way. He has not met every woman on our planet, and I actually doubt he's even met 1% of them, so his accusations are highly exaggerated and flat out WRONG. As we have all told him countless times.

I just asked her in my previous post about all that stuff and she ignored it. Probably because she doesn't do those things.

Or, you know, because she's answered that question already, elsewhere, and don't feel that justifying herself to you is worth her time. I can completely relate to that.

I agree with OP in the sense that I believe women have it easier than men in the dating scene. I didn't say they have it easy, just easier than men, there is a difference.

I will partly agree to this. I believe that PRETTY women have it easier than men. Us more normal ones, though, not so much. Also, what the OP is saying, is that women have it EASY, and that we're deliberately rejecting men who aren't "bad boys" because that's the ONLY type of guy any girl would want, because we're all soooo shallow. Being a girl, I know better. He's just saying this because he needs an excuse as to why he's single, and he doesn't want to face the fact that the problem lies with HIM, not the entire female gender.

They don't have any right to complain about not having a BF or not finding the right guy when they don't approach and ask guys out themselves. What do you expect when you rely on guys to ask you out? You have to deal with what's presented to you. And if nobody approaches you or the wrong guys approach you, and you don't try to get someone yourself, then you deserve to have no one. That's the consequence of being lazy.

I will agree to this, too. But, this also goes for the men. It's not a gender issue, it's a people issue. The OP, however, is trying to place all blame on the women.

Honestly, this thread wasn't exactly a fair debate.. most of it was bashing. You expect me to base my point of view on some dumb forum bashing?

Again, I partly agree. Most of it has turned to bashing, but you know what? The OP pretty much set the standard when he started bashing women in general to begin with. Besides, when he clearly refused to listen to the more rational and to-the-point answers people gave him first, and just continued his bashing, ignoring everyone's replies, what is one to do? I didn't accuse him of trolling just to be mean; I did it because I seriously thought that's what he was doing, based on his posts. Nothing he wrote made sense, none of it even implied that he'd actually read our answers, and his continued bashing was just insulting. I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just ignore him, but I have a short temper when it comes to lies. If the OP wishes to keep believing his lies (which, by the way, will in no way make things better for him), then fine. Spreading his lies and hostility, however, is not fine. That's what set me off.

Example: I say "Jeff, you are a shallow, mean jerk who just want to abuse women". You reply "No, I'm not. That's not true". I continue to say that you are, basically claiming to know you better than you know yourself. By doing so, I would be disrespectful, narrow minded and rude. Would you be okay with that? Or would you feel just a little bit offended?

 

[Callie]

I just read from page 11 and I can honestly say that below is the only thing I wanna reply to

I like peanuts, they are tasty. Did you know they are actually a legume instead of a nut?

Tell me more

 

[IgnoredOne]

Age and maturity, alas, often don't seem to have a correlation. I know a lot of very young people who are more successful and balanced than some much older individuals. A person is usually more mature as he gets older in comparison to himself, but the rate of maturity isn't the same; Pheenix here is a heck of a lot more mature than some people even in this thread.

 

[Jeff]

He IS entitled to be bitter, and I don't believe I've said otherwise. He is NOT, however, entitled to bash women, accusing them of conspiring against men, of being shallow, and basically generalizing all women in a 100% negative way. He has not met every woman on our planet, and I actually doubt he's even met 1% of them, so his accusations are highly exaggerated and flat out WRONG. As we have all told him countless times.

First of all, many women are shallow. Just like many men are shallow. So let's get that out of the way. Actually I'd say there are more shallow women than shallow men. I've known and heard of many men who will take whatever they can get for relationships, hit and quit, or whatever.. but I don't hear about many women lowering their standards to get a man in their life. Many women actually say they have the right to be picky since they give childbirth and have periods. I don't necessarily agree with that but it is what it is.

Second, how can a man see anything positive about women when all he's received from them was rejection, ridicule, and condescension?

You have to understand where OP is coming from. I understand because I have been there myself. He has been rejected his whole life, probably even harshly rejected, like I was many times. When a man gets constantly rejected, it can totally destroy his confidence and self-esteem. And since most men don't have the luxury of getting asked out by women, the situation can look hopeless. This in turn can create anger, frustration, and depression.

All of that can change if just one woman he has interest in gives him a chance. Hopefully his standards aren't too high.

So I don't think OP hates women. I think he is just so frustrated at the moment that some of his rant is mistaken for misogyny. If he hated women, it would make no sense why he wants a girlfriend so bad.

I believe that PRETTY women have it easier than men. Us more normal ones, though, not so much. Also, what the OP is saying, is that women have it EASY, and that we're deliberately rejecting men who aren't "bad boys" because that's the ONLY type of guy any girl would want, because we're all soooo shallow. Being a girl, I know better. He's just saying this because he needs an excuse as to why he's single, and he doesn't want to face the fact that the problem lies with HIM, not the entire female gender.

The way I think OP and many other men see it is that many women have guys asking them out and all the women have to do is take their pick. Generally, that is true. The only variables are how many guys and what types of guys approach these girls. But like I said before, if a girl doesn't go after what she wants, she's stuck with picking from what comes to her.

And I do believe most girls get asked out by multiple guys during their lifetime. I haven't heard of many women asking out men though, yet there are many married people and many people dating. So you could say men are generally responsible for starting these relationships because they took the first crucial step.

I'd like you to show me some statistics on this that prove me wrong. All I have to go by is what I've seen, heard, read, and experienced. Also these statistics are the only ones I've seen on the subject...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...201104/why-dont-women-ask-men-out-first-dates

But you say "normal" girls don't have it easier than men? How is that? I don't exactly see or hear about tons of "normal" girls asking out guys all the time. That is the only thing that would put them on the same level as guys as far as difficulty goes.

And I think the "bad boy" and "nice guy" stuff really translates to "confident hot a-hole guy" and "boring ugly nice guy" so I agree OP in that regard. Most people's first impression is somebody's looks. So when these girls choose the "bad boy" due to looks, they don't realize how much of an a-hole he is until down the road. Then when women say they're tired of these "bad boys" and they want a "nice guy," I think they really mean they want a confident, good looking guy who will treat them nice and won't pump and dump them. Basically a cross between the stereotypical "bad boy" and "nice guy."

 

[Pheenix]

the 33 year old ME

is way smarter, more cunning, more calibrated, more in control, more a lot of things than the 23 year old ME, or even the 28 year old ME.

I agree that you pick up general traits such as pro-activeness, collectedness, professionalism... to an extent. But would you ever say that a person simply by virtue of being 10 years older knows more about, say, the opposite sex?

 

[nerdygirl]

I like that I keep reading about how girls don't approach guys, but I HAVE approached guys. I know other girls who have approached guys. Those guys almost always reject the girls. And these haven't even been "bad boys". They're "normal" to super geeks. Further, I've heard several of these guys complain that they never get girls. As much as men think they want to be approached by women, the fact is, they are either too scared to get involved regardless of who initiates... or some men are just as picky as some women.

 

[Pheenix]

Also, most people hit their mental peak around the age of thirty, after which they still gain wisdom, but the average mind hits a lower plateau of activity.

 

[nerdygirl]

Also, hit it and quit it is not a relationship, and tons of men who like that kind of thing are not that picky... but dealing with guys like that does make a lot of not so picky women become picky!

 

[Jeff]

I like that I keep reading about how girls don't approach guys, but I HAVE approached guys. I know other girls who have approached guys.

That may be the case but you don't actually think that just as many women approach men as men approach women do you? We're not talking at your school, we're talking in society in general.

I know other girls who have approached guys. Those guys almost always reject the girls. And these haven't even been "bad boys". They're "normal" to super geeks. Further, I've heard several of these guys complain that they never get girls.

Were these girls clear and direct (ex: saying "do you want to go out sometime?") or did these girls give those stupid "signals" and "hints"?

Most guys do not read "signals" and "hints." Especially the more inexperienced guys. Guys need direct communication.. they are not mind readers.

As much as men think they want to be approached by women, the fact is, they are either too scared to get involved regardless of who initiates... or some men are just as picky as some women.

I agree that some men are just as picky as women. Also, when you approach guys, some will just not be interested. That's how it works for guys approaching women too. Just cause a woman asks a guy out, doesn't mean she's entitled to a date.

Most of the time, this "too scared" stuff is just a way to shame men because you've been rejected and need some way to rationalize the situation.

Also, hit it and quit it is not a relationship, and tons of men who like that kind of thing are not that picky... but dealing with guys like that does make a lot of not so picky women become picky!

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean that hit and quit is a relationship. I meant that many guys will take what they can get for basically anything. That includes both relationships and hit and quit.

 

[Pheenix]

Most of the time, this "too scared" stuff is just a way to shame men because you've been rejected and need some way to rationalize the situation.

Can you clarify this comment?

 

[Jeff]

Most of the time, this "too scared" stuff is just a way to shame men because you've been rejected and need some way to rationalize the situation.

Can you clarify this comment?

Sure. Say a girl likes a guy and actually decides to approach him and ask him out, and she's rejected. Then in her head, she just convinces herself that "oh he must be just too scared to get into a relationship" or "he must be just too scared of me because he sees me as aggressive" or other similar thoughts.

That makes her feel better about the whole situation because she rationalized that the guy is just "too scared" and thus she was not actually rejected for a "legitimate reason." In other words, he is inferior to her because he has the shameful quality of being "too scared." In reality, that probably isn't the case at all. Maybe the guy just wasn't interested in her. If it can happen to guys, it can happen to girls.

Essentially, she tears the guy down to prop herself up. And that is what this "too scared" type of thinking is meant to do.

 

[nerdygirl]

That may be the case but you don't actually think that just as many women approach men as men approach women do you? We're not talking at your school, we're talking in society in general.

Contrary to what you might think, not all of us are children. I haven't been a student in over a decade.

At no point did I say that women are entitled to positive responses when asking men out. I was addressing the statements I've read (several times) that because women don't approach men, we can't really complain about not finding a companion... and that women simply don't "try". In addition, the implication is that if we did, we would never (or almost never) be rejected.

Yes, we do approach men. Yes, we even state, "I'm interested in you. Would you like to spend some time to get to know each other better?"

No, women do not ask men out as often as men ask women out, but that doesn't mean it never happens. Yes, some men find it flattering, and some don't really care which way it goes. A lot, though, are just as traditional as a lot of girls. They suddenly feel like they're no longer "the man". I've known guys who asked girls to lie about who initiated the relationship. I've known guys who were really into girls up until the point that the girls asked them out.

 

[Jeff]

At no point did I say that women are entitled to positive responses when asking men out. I was addressing the statements I've read (several times) that because women don't approach men, we can't really complain about not finding a companion... and that women simply don't "try". In addition, the implication is that if we did, we would never (or almost never) be rejected.

I never meant to imply that you'd never get rejected. You would definitely increase your chances and your options by asking out men though. Just because many men prefer to do the asking, doesn't mean they aren't receptive to being asked. It takes much of the pressure off them.

No, women do not ask men out as often as men ask women out, but that doesn't mean it never happens. Yes, some men find it flattering, and some don't really care which way it goes. A lot, though, are just as traditional as a lot of girls. They suddenly feel like they're no longer "the man". I've known guys who asked girls to lie about who initiated the relationship. I've known guys who were really into girls up until the point that the girls asked them out.

Ok, the guys that wanted girls to lie about who initiated, doesn't matter.. because the girl was still in a relationship. Meaning, she got what she wanted anyway.

The "guys who were really into girls up until the point that the girls asked them out" stuff is nonsense. The girls thought the guy was into them, but he wasn't. Just like a guy can think a girl is into them, then they ask her out and get rejected. Works both ways.

About the guy doesn't feel like he's the man, and the guy is traditional, and all that stuff.. maybe he just didn't like you. It happens to guys too when they approach girls. Sometimes the girls just don't like them. But in your case, it sounds like you're making excuses to convince yourself otherwise.

As if you didn't get rejected cause he didn't like you, you got rejected cause he's "too traditional" or he "feels like less of a man." Such talk is bull and is only rationalization to make yourself feel better. See my previous post about the "too scared" comment you previously made. And for further reading...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(making_excuses)

 

[Pheenix]

Eh, between you two at this point, I think the discussion is becoming trying to categorize past experiences, either your own or friends'. And I think that's futile, because it can't be done.

 

[Limlim]

Seems odd that you would know what went through the minds of those guys Jeff. Granted Nerdygirl might not either, but it seems kind of speculative.