How can ugly people gain social skills?

[wresponpanfruit]

If good looks were the requirement for social skills/popularity/success, then how do you explain:

Steven Hawking
Albert Einstein
Don Knotts
Gary Shandling
Tom Petty
Bob Dylan
Rodney Dangerfield
Eleanor Roosevelt
Michael Jackson (post-op)
Mick Jagger
Keith Richards
Carrot Top
Prince Charles
Yoko Ono
Janis Joplin
Steve Buscemi
Marty Feldman
Danny DeVito and Rhea Perlman
Anne Ramsey
Ric Ocasek
Patti Smith
Lyle Lovett
Abe Vigoda
Phyllis Diller
Carly Simon
Bea Arthur
Steven Tyler
Barbra Streisand
John Madden
Henry Kissinger

Your problem isn't looks, it's that you have a defeatist mentality.

Most of those people are attractive and not in least monstrous. bad example.

 

[INTJ]

[/quote]Most of those people are attractive and not in least monstrous. bad example. [/quote]

Monstrous? No. But pretty damned fugly.

 

[MingJP]

^ Hah, if they're 'fugly' then I'm beyond repair?

Anyways, IMO, people stress on their appearance to much, because it subconsciously gives people a confidence boost. Looks are, even when young we are taught this, associated with kindness, patience, virtues, etc.

For example, Cinderella was the 'good-looking' hard-worker, abused by her step-sisters, which were 'ugly' and lazy. Do you see how looks are associated so easily? If Cinderella was a lazy girl, would she be pretty? Would the fairy-god mother come along to put her in a fabulous dress, and let her marry a 'handsome' prince? Is there ever an 'ugly' prince?

Even from childhood we learnt to associate stereotypes with certain features. And physical appearance is one of them - especially when that is really a factor in sex. People look for 'good-looking' people to have children with, to have sex with.

But I definitely would not agree being ugly with not having social skills - I would rather believe it boosts it. Sure, ugly people might have a handicap when trying to find a partner, but that is an obstacle that they work to jump over (eg, improving their personality/social 'skills').

When you associate 'ugly' with 'bad social skills' - isn't that restricting your own views? If you see another 'ugly person', would you hold that stereotype before you even met them? If yes, then you are biased (sorry). However, if no, then you are too self-critical! If you were blind, would you think that a 'bad physical appearance' would be an indication of someone's character? I would not think so.

Honestly if you are considering surgery there are some things I'd like to mention - your reputation will almost always go down. People will USUALLY not respect you anymore, most people would perceive that as 'insecurity'. Surgery does not always result in an 100% success rate - are you willing to risk that? And the money costs are horrendous! And last of all, are you yourself willing to do it? Are you 100% sure? If you are, then nobody can convince you. But you have to take care! It's very important to be happy.

(from a 15 year old kid. I'm young, so I might have had as much experience/wisdom - sorry.)

 

[WishingWell]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...sucess has nothing to do with your looks. Do others say you are ugly, or do you just feel that way? If somone gets along with your personality, they should be your friend. Period.

 

[rdp234]

First of all, nobody is "ugly". Stop thinking you're ugly. That is the key. You are beautiful. It doesn't really matter what you look like. You have to feel that way about yourself even if no one else does. Stop worrying about how you look. Not everyone is obssessed with the way other people look. Maybe it's the way you feel about yourself that's the problem. If someone looks at you funny, pay them no mind. People can be creul. Don't let them get to you and feel good about yourself. Every person is beautiful in their own way. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and worrying about what you don't have and take pride in what you do have. You're alive. You have beautiful thoughts and feelings and a beautiful mind. Anyone who judges the book by its cover is not worth it. You're above them. You are perfect the way you are. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You are just as beautiful and worthy as anyone. You have to start changing the way you think and stop worrying about the approval of others. You are fine just the way you are.

---

You don't need surgery. You need to learn to love yourself and your individuality. You are perfect the way you are.

 

[Nightwatcher]

I think like previous posters has pointed out that there is no universal norm for whats beautiful or not. What someone label as ugly some one else might label as a beauty. I think its in the base a matter is being proud of your self and being strong towards negative judgment . Don't compare your self to others or trying to be something your not. Trust me i will in the end backfire, i know from personal experience.

But anyways, a start is talking to people like i mentioned in another tread here. It can be with anyone a bus driver for instance just casual talk. The thing is there is no exact recipe to gaining social skill. Its not like baking bread for instance like 2 liter of milk to name an example. Another thing that can be useful is to observe other people how they interact with each other, not to copy them exactly but to gain an idea at how to use body language or how to converse with people. And to repeat what many people have said, be your self.

 

[Nightwatcher]

I think like previous posters has pointed out that there is no universal norm for whats beautiful or not. What someone label as ugly some one else might label as a beauty. I think its in the base a matter is being proud of your self and being strong towards negative judgment . Don't compare your self to others or trying to be something your not. Trust me i will in the end backfire, i know from personal experience.

 

[PoetryFlows4rmMe]

I think the main dilemma is that psychologically we, as children are brainwashed into believing that we are loved and important because of your amount of beauty;thusly you are valued by how beautiful you are. Although we know this is not true it creates a mental limitation that all you are stems from your appearance and your only accepted because of what you possess. It's not a fair system but the good thing is you don't have to buy into that. Define your own beauty, make it into something achievable for yourself, or focus on the most beautiful thing physically about you and take pride in it too.

 

[rdp234]

You're not ugly. That's the first thing. There is no reason to feel that way ever and you shouldn't.

 

[nerdygirl]

About ten years ago, I met this guy online. I was still involved with X, and it was just a platonic friendship. So a few weeks in, this guy asks to see my picture, but I didn't have a scanner or digital camera. He said it was really important and asked if I had a friend who could put my picture online for me. I asked why, and he said that he refused to have any ugly friends. He was good looking, so all of his friends were good looking. I told him there was no freaking way I'd want to talk to somebody like that, and he said, "Oh, you must be ugly." I just agreed with him and started the process of blocking him from everything.

So... looks do not equal social skills.

 

[A new life]

About ten years ago, I met this guy online. I was still involved with X, and it was just a platonic friendship. So a few weeks in, this guy asks to see my picture, but I didn't have a scanner or digital camera. He said it was really important and asked if I had a friend who could put my picture online for me. I asked why, and he said that he refused to have any ugly friends. He was good looking, so all of his friends were good looking. I told him there was no freaking way I'd want to talk to somebody like that, and he said, "Oh, you must be ugly." I just agreed with him and started the process of blocking him from everything.

So... looks do not equal social skills.

****!
I'm at a loss for words to describe how disgusted that makes me feel.
At times like this I fantasize about someone teaching that jerk a lesson..

 

[nerdygirl]

****!
I'm at a loss for words to describe how disgusted that makes me feel.
At times like this I fantasize about someone teaching that jerk a lesson..

I think his particular way of thinking is one of those things that is going to bring consequences sooner or later. It's one thing to only date physically attractive people, but he was a heterosexual male who wouldn't even have male friends that were unappealing. Bad enough to feel that way, worse to say it. Sooner or later, he's going to get punched in his pretty little face.

Song by Selena Gomez says the only thing I can think of to contribute to this thread. Even if you're not a fan of hers, it's a good song.

[video=youtube]

 

[rdp234]

About ten years ago, I met this guy online. I was still involved with X, and it was just a platonic friendship. So a few weeks in, this guy asks to see my picture, but I didn't have a scanner or digital camera. He said it was really important and asked if I had a friend who could put my picture online for me. I asked why, and he said that he refused to have any ugly friends. He was good looking, so all of his friends were good looking. I told him there was no freaking way I'd want to talk to somebody like that, and he said, "Oh, you must be ugly." I just agreed with him and started the process of blocking him from everything.

So... looks do not equal social skills.

That is disgusting. He is the ugly one. people with that mentality are just awful, terrible, ugly people. It's enough that he has to go through life that way.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

What people need to realize is that there are ugly people in this world. There just ARE. You can't change it by saying "everyone's beautiful" because I bet there is not a single one person on this thread, if not this entire forum, that hasn't looked at someone and thought they were less-than-average. Maybe you didn't feed that thought. Maybe you didn't say it. But somewhere, deep down, you were thinking it.
I, for one, have seen people with, to put it bluntly, messed up faces. Some were born that way, some were made that way by surgery.

There are physically unattractive people. That's just that. We've been taught for generations what's physically "acceptible" and what isn't. Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder, but so is ugliness. Either way, the vast majority of humans on this earth have found inadequacy in SOMEONE'S appearance. Don't try to sugar coat it and say otherwise, because it's bullshit.

That being said, I will say that an ugly person will be judged by his or her peers more often than not, and yes, if others choose to avoid that person based on their looks, then that person will not have the practice that a "beautiful" person would have in making friends. Lord knows I haven't, and I'm just fat...not so much monstrous. But that doesn't give said "ugly" person the right to throw in the towel. Attempting to make yourself beautiful by others' standards doesn't help you gain social skills, no. In fact, you become more self-absorbed and bitchy with all that self-consciousness than you were when you didn't bother with your appearance.

Building up more confidence to throw yourself out there regardless of what anyone thinks is easier said than done, I know that for sure. But I have seen "ugly" people with groups of friends, be they "ugly" or "pretty" friends. On top of that, they don't even have to worry about their friends being with them for superficial reasons when they're not rich and pretty (well there are those who surround themselves with ugly people to feel better about themselves - but that's just sad). They have friends because they have something to offer. Not everyone is beautiful, but everyone has something to offer.
So instead of working on selling a visually appealing product, why not work on selling a useful one? Your personality. Your thoughts and your character.

Sure, looks matter a little bit - that's definitely true. But when you're old and saggy and missing all your goddamn teeth, what are you going to have left if not character? Work on THAT, then everything else will follow.

 

[WishingWell]

OH, PLEASE, if you are a good person inside you are not ugly on the inside--even if you condsider yourself ugly on the outside. And, wresponpanfruit is right! I can add to the list of successful, popular, and social people who are eye sores, but I
don't have the time--the list is so long. I have an idea! Go to a local mall or another public place, take a seat and have a coffee or soda/pop (whatever you call it), and "people watch." You will see all the happy, social people with friends and significant others that are not pleasing to the eye. Another idea think hard and try listing your good points and bad--I am sure you can find the good wins out if you are honest with yourself!

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

^ Preachin' to the choir, sister.

What I'm saying is, there ARE physically UNattractive, ass-ugly people. There are people that DO avoid them for superficial reasons (just take nerdygirl's example). To say that doesn't happen is an assfaced lie.

But those outwardly ugly people can (and have) still find themselves with friends if they focus on something other than outward appearance. Focus on personality and what they've got to bring to the table. If you focus on your appearance, others will too. Grooming is nice and all, but don't make it into the only thing you have to offer.

 

[WishingWell]

Sorry, Doubt the Rabbit! I guess at 53, and being divorced and having boyfriends that were always very attractive, I feel differently, because it turned out they couldn't hold a job, were abusive or we're phonies. I just feel I now that looks aren't everything. If I really liked a man's personality and was friends with him, and he was "ugly", and he asked me out on a date, maybe I couldn't deal with his looks either. It's never happened to me...I will keep you posted if it does! Again, sorry if I sounded "preachy." I guess I wasn't thinking from a "WHAT IF I" perspective.

 

[Doubt The Rabbit]

Not at all, by that I meant we have the same views about physical appearance

Most of my boyfriends so far haven't been exactly been the height of good looks. They were below-average (I can't even say they were plain-looking. If any of them ever read this, I'm sure they'd be a little put off ) but they were the sweetest guys you ever want to meet. Most of them had issues with being too clingy or quick to accuse me of cheating (most likely due to low self-esteem), so I would tend to break it off when it got to be too much to handle. I think that they wouldn't have been that way if they had more practice with people and learned that not everyone is going to try and screw them over. But, as I've said, it's a shame that not many people give them that chance.

I find that interesting though, because without good looks to get by on, you actually HAVE to be good at things or a be nice person in order to survive in society. Sure, there are those who are simply unsociable, but for a person who puts in effort to make friends, why wouldn't someone want to give 'em a chance?

 

[lone_drow]

The personal is what you'd expect, little real life platonic or erotic interaction but the professional sounds laughable. Fired from a salesman job for gross incompetence. Forced resignation (did not stick around to be put on probation, harrassed then fired) from waiting job for "not gelling" with the rest of staff socially. Failed every interview that has ever required me to demonstrate a competency in working with people in a group. Luckily my last interview for my university course was one on one.

I am this way because I have been ugly all my life, the sum of every interaction that should have been a learning experience but never was. Success begets success and failure begets failure. I do not feel I have learnt anything positive from my social failures.

I believe being ugly negatively socialises people. Where by positive socialisation is a virtuous circle; negative socialisation is a vicious circle. A good looking kid growing up will be propelled to success while a ugly looking kid will be driven to pariahood and failure. The effect is cumulative on the affected and self fulfilling to those affecting.

I don't quite understand something. You stated the above for one of the reasons why you think you lost your job. Skill, competence, ability to work in a team etc.
I don't understand how enhancing ones looks can help with skills needed to hold down a job.

Suppose you go ahead with the surgery and it doesn't give you the results you want, then what? What if the same scenario happens all over again? Or worse, there are complications from the surgery. What will you do then? Are you prepared?

Forgive me for sounding harsh but I just can't seem to see the correlation between good looks and the ability to hold a job. Saying that ugly people are headed for failure and good looking people are all geared for success seems like a very black and white way of seeing things.
Sometimes all it needs is a change of thoughts to improve your looks.

Please think it over.

 

[LUCK]

Social skills are important. But how does it feel knowing that a hot guy can say anything and be treated as a deity by women while you have to struggle with mind and word tricks to even get a second glance?

That's not the life I want to live.