Is Suicide the Answer?

[Misanthrope23]

Sometimes I like to fantasize about it, doing it in the most horrifically messy way possible, to really scar the person who finds me. This is just a silly morbid thought that I find funny though. I have known people who have comitted suicide and also people who have found people, and that I do not find funny.

As sad as it is, yes, I do think sometimes it is the only answer for some people. How would I feel if my friend/family member did it? Sad, of course, but it would be selfish of me to expect them to endure a life of torment and pain just so I wouldn't be sad. People who say suicide is selfish are hypocrites, and very obviously ignorant of what real suicidal thoughts and anguish is like.

well said Painter's Radio

 

[isthatso]

As someone said or implied, we need to avoid judgement. Not judge people who feel suicidal. I honestly believe it is the answer for some. (extreme cases only)
I'm an advocate for euthanasia. (assisted suicide) But boundaries need to be put in place to avoid abuse. "oh I've got a headache today. Think I'll kill myself"
I often wonder if my cousin who committed suicide ever got the chance to look back on his suicide, would he say to himself. what a mistake! if only I'd waited one more day for some help"

 

[ardour]

Sometimes I like to fantasize about it, doing it in the most horrifically messy way possible, to really scar the person who finds me. This is just a silly morbid thought that I find funny though. I have known people who have comitted suicide and also people who have found people, and that I do not find funny.

As sad as it is, yes, I do think sometimes it is the only answer for some people. How would I feel if my friend/family member did it? Sad, of course, but it would be selfish of me to expect them to endure a life of torment and pain just so I wouldn't be sad. People who say suicide is selfish are hypocrites, and very obviously ignorant of what real suicidal thoughts and anguish is like.

Feeling suicidal, fantasizing, is one thing, but imo there’s no rational decision to kill yourself unless it’s at the later stages of a terminal illness. Otherwise it’s misguided narcissism ; the family and friends you have aren’t good enough to make life worth living, like some ultimate form of snobbishness. Life didn’t turn out the way they wanted it, so they would rather have nothing.

The lack of appreciation. Throwing away what you have like that seems disgusting.
If the person still has elderly relatives alive imagine what it will do to them. They will be making their last months or years alive a misery.

 

[painter's radio]

Sometimes I like to fantasize about it, doing it in the most horrifically messy way possible, to really scar the person who finds me. This is just a silly morbid thought that I find funny though. I have known people who have comitted suicide and also people who have found people, and that I do not find funny.

As sad as it is, yes, I do think sometimes it is the only answer for some people. How would I feel if my friend/family member did it? Sad, of course, but it would be selfish of me to expect them to endure a life of torment and pain just so I wouldn't be sad. People who say suicide is selfish are hypocrites, and very obviously ignorant of what real suicidal thoughts and anguish is like.

Feeling suicidal, fantasizing, is one thing, but IMO there’s no rational decision to kill yourself unless it’s at the later stages of a terminal illness.
Otherwise it’s misguided narcissism ; the family and friends you have aren’t good enough to make life worth living, like some ultimate form of snobbishness.
Life didn’t turn out the way they wanted it, so they would rather have nothing.

The lack of appreciation. We have the right to complain, but throwing away what you have like that seems disgusting.

If the person still has elderly relatives alive imagine what it will do to them, they’ll be making their last months or years alive a misery.

Yeah I just don't think external things or beings are enough for some people. What about chemical imbalances in the brain, or mental illness. I think it's a much more self-centred and narcisistic thought to say "they killed themself because I wasn't important enough for them to live for" and to be somehow offended by someone else's inability to cope.

I do believe in putting others first, but for me, there's a limit to that. Yeah, some people don't appreciate what they have, some will pull the trigger over stupid reasons without ever even trying various methods of help like therapy or medication, but well the thread is asking if sometimes it's the answer, and yes, I believe if you've really exhausted every possible avenue and it just keeps getting worse...

...bang.

 

[ardour]

worse how... worse relative to what... I know a guy who emigrated here from Zimbabwe. He would ask about my mother when she was still alive, then one time he said "at least you still have a mother". I got the impression he had no family left.

It would be interesting to know what the rates of mental illness and suicide are in some 'developing' nations. It wouldn't surprise me if they were quite low.

 

[painter's radio]

Yeah same here, I really have great respect for people who have poor lives with not much in them, that manage to cope. Wherever they're from. As I said, there's more to it than external factors.

 

[quintus]

A couple of posts ago TropicalStarfish wrote about "letting go" of a beloved one as an act of unselfish love. I'd like to thank him for this statement. The "letting go" is probably the hardest part if it comes to the acceptance of death. And that includes suicide. I can hardly see the selfishness in ending ones life, if this life became simply unbearable. So, rdor, suicide is ok with you if a really lonely person with no friends or family does it?

 

[perfanoff]

Suicide is cowardly. That's that.

 

[quintus]

O? Really? How do you know that? Did you try? In my opinion it needs some strenght to act against the instinct of survival. Even when survival does not seem an option.

 

[perfanoff]

Clap, clap.

You have enough strength to act against the instinct of survival but you are terrified of even facing the world, a rather gentle 21st century developed world, to be clear.

And honestly WHEN is survival not an option for you? To be precise if survival wasn't an option for you EVERY SINGLE MOMENT then... how did you WRITE THIS POST?

What do you want? To have people pity you and comfort you when you say you want to kill yourself? Or to prove your point out of spite; you were lonely and people didn't give you what you want so you kill yourself? Are you that? An emotional and moral terrorist? Holding your own life hostage? Have you so fallen?

 

[quintus]

My o my! I'm discussing an issue, not me. Don't get personal, please. It is a discussion, if I'm not wrong. I did never say I want to kill myself, if you please re- read the posts. But I did think of suicide in really ugly circumstances. And no, I'm really the last person that likes the word pity. (I'd prefer compassion instead). So calm down, ok?

 

[perfanoff]

Just because I'm critical doesn't mean I'm not calm But I understand. Thing is, I don't like anyone to get the idea that suicide is okay. There's plenty of people especially on here that are considering it.

So I have to reiterate, suicide is cowardly and selfish, it can hurt other people, it negates all that society has provided to you, and your own potential to do good in this world.

 

[quintus]

Yes, I remember. One of those people started this thread. For the rest: I rest my case.

 

[blackdot]

Suicide is not a cowardly or selfish act. Sometimes it really is the only answer. Some people have to spend their entire life suffering and the only solution is to end it. My ex-gf did that. Not because she was selfish or cowardly but that because life gave her more than she could handle and there wasn't anything doctors could do about it.

I hate hearing people say that suicide is selfish because it make the people that continue living be the ones that suffer. You know what, that makes the people that are still living the selfish ones. The act of demanding someone continue living their life in pain just so everyone else can be happy is pretty darn selfish to me.

 

[perfanoff]

"Pretty darn selfish?" What's my vested interest in whether some stranger ends their life or not?

I'm not going to keep arguing. It's obvious you don't put a value on human life as much as I do. Or you believe in that she'll definitely wake up in the next moment, either reincarnated or in heaven. And suffering... suffering is at least something. The really worst thing is nothingness. Apathy. Negation. Death.

 

[painter's radio]

Thought it would be pretty obvious that we're not talking about complete strangers in these scenarios... Lol

 

[Lone Apothecary]

I, for one, would never say suicide is the answer based on the presupposition of an afterlife without a ton of evidence. Looking at brain decay, particularly dementia, it seems to me that when my brains dies, I'll cease to exist. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of suicide when the bad days grossly outweigh the good days in both frequency and severity. I can see several routes that could lead me to that situation, but the one that is the most likely to occur would be physical illness. I already have an incurable condition which may lead to my quality of life drastically decreasing. If I ever grow weary of life, I'd want to die in a carefully planned fashion, and in such a way that everybody who needs to know about my choice knows well in advance.

I don't understand how it can be viewed as just a selfish act. People will suffer when I die, and they'll probably suffer more if I die suddenly. If forewarned of my intentions to kill myself, much like being forewarned of a terminal illness, they should suffer less than if I were to suddenly kill myself. If I was suffering immensely and still going out of my way to ease the suffering of the people who care about me before putting myself out of my misery, then I'd be being more selfless than I've been throughout most of my life.

People seem to be implying that the selfishness of suicide is a factor in it being "wrong." If you're living selfishly, does that mean you shouldn't keep living?

 

[ardour]

So I have to reiterate, suicide is cowardly and selfish, it can hurt other people, it negates all that society has provided to you, and your own potential to do good in this world.

Yeah and some final act to emotionally manipulate people is not a way I would want to go or be remembered.

Expectation and entitlement affect state of mind, I don't see how anyone can ignore this. Okay maybe it's down to a chemical imbalance some of time, but generally those who are happier with less and are grateful to be alive aren’t as likely to become severely depressed... especially over being single or not having friends.

 

[perfanoff]

I, for one, would never say suicide is the answer based on the presupposition of an afterlife without a ton of evidence. Looking at brain decay, particularly dementia, it seems to me that when my brains dies, I'll cease to exist. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of suicide when the bad days grossly outweigh the good days in both frequency and severity. I can see several routes that could lead me to that situation, but the one that is the most likely to occur would be physical illness. I already have an incurable condition which may lead to my quality of life drastically decreasing. If I ever grow weary of life, I'd want to die in a carefully planned fashion, and in such a way that everybody who needs to know about my choice knows well in advance.

I don't understand how it can be viewed as just a selfish act. People will suffer when I die, and they'll probably suffer more if I die suddenly. If forewarned of my intentions to kill myself, much like being forewarned of a terminal illness, they should suffer less than if I were to suddenly kill myself. If I was suffering immensely and still going out of my way to ease the suffering of the people who care about me before putting myself out of my misery, then I'd be being more selfless than I've been throughout most of my life.

People seem to be implying that the selfishness of suicide is a factor in it being "wrong." If you're living selfishly, does that mean you shouldn't keep living?

In reality nobody will be okay with it, even if you warn them. If you're not a complete monster, many people will be sad for you. In fact, you'd probably be put on a suicide watch and bring about a lot of suffering and tension.

Your illness is very unlikely to bring you great pain or such high quality of life reductions, compared to obesity for example.

In the end of the day, you make what you want of your life, how many "good days" and how many "bad days" you had. Remember that we are so incredibly spoiled nowadays, we would barely be able to live in the early 20th, let alone in the pre-industrial era.

So I have to reiterate, suicide is cowardly and selfish, it can hurt other people, it negates all that society has provided to you, and your own potential to do good in this world.

Yeah and some final act to emotionally manipulate people is not a way I would want to go or be remembered.

Expectation and entitlement affect state of mind, I don't see how anyone can ignore this. Okay maybe it's down to a chemical imbalance some of time, but generally those who are happier with less and are grateful to be alive aren’t as likely to become severely depressed... especially over being single or not having friends.

Agreed.

And people who aren't severely depressed.. are more likely to have a love life and be popular among friends.

It only works well to swallow that idiotic notion of entitlement and lower your expectations of the world to a reasonable level. And then your life might just become objectively better.

 

[quintus]

"Your illness is very unlikely to bring you great pain or such high quality of life reductions, compared to obesity for example." Did you really wrote this? That's strong. How can YOU judge the intensity of the suffering, inflicted by a really serious illness of another being? And compare it to obesity? Frankly...