Is Suicide the Answer?

[ladyforsaken]

People who say suicide is selfish are hypocrites, and very obviously ignorant of what real suicidal thoughts and anguish is like.

I think there are a lot of people who have actually been suicidal and actually overcome to come out and say that yes, it is selfish. It really doesn't mean that they are hypocrites. It just means that they overcame whatever issue they had and pulled through it to have changes made in their lives. I am one. So are a few other people I've known from here.

This of course doesn't apply with those who do not have a choice at overcoming the honeysuckle in their lives. Like illnesses etc. That's a whole other story altogether.

Feeling suicidal, fantasizing, is one thing, but imo there’s no rational decision to kill yourself unless it’s at the later stages of a terminal illness. Otherwise it’s misguided narcissism ; the family and friends you have aren’t good enough to make life worth living, like some ultimate form of snobbishness. Life didn’t turn out the way they wanted it, so they would rather have nothing.

The lack of appreciation. Throwing away what you have like that seems disgusting.
If the person still has elderly relatives alive imagine what it will do to them. They will be making their last months or years alive a misery.

I agree.

Clap, clap.

You have enough strength to act against the instinct of survival but you are terrified of even facing the world, a rather gentle 21st century developed world, to be clear.

And honestly WHEN is survival not an option for you? To be precise if survival wasn't an option for you EVERY SINGLE MOMENT then... how did you WRITE THIS POST?

What do you want? To have people pity you and comfort you when you say you want to kill yourself? Or to prove your point out of spite; you were lonely and people didn't give you what you want so you kill yourself? Are you that? An emotional and moral terrorist? Holding your own life hostage? Have you so fallen?

Just because I'm critical doesn't mean I'm not calm But I understand. Thing is, I don't like anyone to get the idea that suicide is okay. There's plenty of people especially on here that are considering it.

So I have to reiterate, suicide is cowardly and selfish, it can hurt other people, it negates all that society has provided to you, and your own potential to do good in this world.

Perfanoff, sometimes, I really like how blunt you are. It tends to give a "wake-up" call sometimes (to me at least). And yes, agree with your viewpoint here too.

Suicide is not a cowardly or selfish act. Sometimes it really is the only answer. Some people have to spend their entire life suffering and the only solution is to end it. My ex-gf did that. Not because she was selfish or cowardly but that because life gave her more than she could handle and there wasn't anything doctors could do about it.

I hate hearing people say that suicide is selfish because it make the people that continue living be the ones that suffer. You know what, that makes the people that are still living the selfish ones. The act of demanding someone continue living their life in pain just so everyone else can be happy is pretty darn selfish to me.

blackdot, I'm sorry to hear about that.

I think suicide has such broad range of reasons. I guess people tend to generalise the reason for suicide as the typical type where people can actually make choices to overcome their issues. But when it comes down to a case where the person has no choice.. I don't know.

It's like this - when my dad was seriously ill and bedridden, I was missing his old self so much but then he was in such torment that I was praying for god or the higher power to take him away to release him from his pain. It was either that or watch him suffer. BUT at the same time, I didn't wanna lose him, but if I were to held on to that, it would make me a selfish. He just wanted to go and kept on saying he wanted to go. So I guess.. it all depends on the situation.

If one can help it, I think one should and not go for suicide.

"Your illness is very unlikely to bring you great pain or such high quality of life reductions, compared to obesity for example." Did you really wrote this? That's strong. How can YOU judge the intensity of the suffering, inflicted by a really serious illness of another being? And compare it to obesity? Frankly...

Who said this? I couldn't find it. But yeah, one can't really judge the intensity of suffering unless he or she are going through it themselves. I've always kind of wondered how my dad kept going strong all those years he had several health issues and cancers and survived them. Think I'm kinda going through a little bit of it now and I guess that's my answer. It's just really not easy when you're actually going through it.

 

[Lone Apothecary]

In reality nobody will be okay with it, even if you warn them. If you're not a complete monster, many people will be sad for you. In fact, you'd probably be put on a suicide watch and bring about a lot of suffering and tension.

Your illness is very unlikely to bring you great pain or such high quality of life reductions, compared to obesity for example.

In the end of the day, you make what you want of your life, how many "good days" and how many "bad days" you had. Remember that we are so incredibly spoiled nowadays, we would barely be able to live in the early 20th, let alone in the pre-industrial era.

I know that nobody would be okay with it. What I'd expect is that people would find it easier to swallow if they were warned, rather than if I suddenly put a bullet through my head. I wouldn't say "many" people; not because I'm a monster, but because I'm practically a shut-in. That said, there are people in my life who I believe would suffer so much sadness from my passing that I wouldn't dare to commit suicide as long as they're in my life. If they were to pass away or if I were to become estranged from them, then I'd be more inclined to kill myself. I'd only kill myself if I was completely miserable after exhausting countless options/treatments, and even then I'd do everything in my power to ease the suffering of those around me before I killed myself.

I know that, but it's still something that will weigh on my mind and affect my physical condition for the rest of my life, even if it isn't overly severe. It's just the fact that complications are already cropping up so early in life that make things seem so grim.

If I make what I want of my life, and I'm tired of living, then what's wrong with choosing death? I'm adapted to the conditions I grew up in. I can imagine being in far worse conditions, but I can't experience them first hand. I know we're spoiled, and that's why I feel so pathetic. I feel intensely guilty because of my condition. I shouldn't be this way. I have it better than a lot of other people, but I'm a craven weakling, so I can't even handle the situations I have to deal with, which are mild compared to the situations other people have to put up with. Knowing that only makes me want to end it even more, but the fact that part of my condition may be based on chemical imbalances gives me a little bit of a hope that I'm not a complete wretch who deserves to be killed.

 

[perfanoff]

Frankly, shut up already quintos. Maybe I have the exact same illness. How do you know? And the amount of how much someone complains has nothing to do with how easy, hard, full or empty of problems and suffering one's life is. In fact, there's nobody out there that is without problems.

I feel that you think everyone is ENTITLED to a good life, without health problems, relationship problems, and other life problems. That is NOT the case. Everyone is entitled to suffering at many points in their life. If you lived 200 years ago you'd have a 50% chance to be dead by the age of 18. And if you made it to be a parent, you would bury half of your children. And this is why so many more people used to turn to a god to find solace. This is the truth of nature. The hardship of life.

Everything humanity has achieved is by holding our teeth in front of adversity and making the world a better place for us and for our children. There's no time to sit around and lament in trivial problems (such as a non-life threatening condition) if we are to do good. To do good for OURSELVES and to OTHER PEOPLE.

---

People who say suicide is selfish are hypocrites, and very obviously ignorant of what real suicidal thoughts and anguish is like.

I think there are a lot of people who have actually been suicidal and actually overcome to come out and say that yes, it is selfish. It really doesn't mean that they are hypocrites. It just means that they overcame whatever issue they had and pulled through it to have changes made in their lives. I am one. So are a few other people I've known from here.

This of course doesn't apply with those who do not have a choice at overcoming the honeysuckle in their lives. Like illnesses etc. That's a whole other story altogether.

This is exactly my sentiment. I wish only people who are at this point to think that way, so they can put this past them. I am really glad that you have

Maybe my heart is getting closer to where it should be, but I'm definitely no tactful speaker. So it makes me feel good that someone appreciates my thoughts for what they are.

---

In reality nobody will be okay with it, even if you warn them. If you're not a complete monster, many people will be sad for you. In fact, you'd probably be put on a suicide watch and bring about a lot of suffering and tension.

Your illness is very unlikely to bring you great pain or such high quality of life reductions, compared to obesity for example.

In the end of the day, you make what you want of your life, how many "good days" and how many "bad days" you had. Remember that we are so incredibly spoiled nowadays, we would barely be able to live in the early 20th, let alone in the pre-industrial era.

I know that nobody would be okay with it. What I'd expect is that people would find it easier to swallow if they were warned, rather than if I suddenly put a bullet through my head. I wouldn't say "many" people; not because I'm a monster, but because I'm practically a shut-in. That said, there are people in my life who I believe would suffer so much sadness from my passing that I wouldn't dare to commit suicide as long as they're in my life. If they were to pass away or if I were to become estranged from them, then I'd be more inclined to kill myself. I'd only kill myself if I was completely miserable after exhausting countless options/treatments, and even then I'd do everything in my power to ease the suffering of those around me before I killed myself.

I know that, but it's still something that will weigh on my mind and affect my physical condition for the rest of my life, even if it isn't overly severe. It's just the fact that complications are already cropping up so early in life that make things seem so grim.

If I make what I want of my life, and I'm tired of living, then what's wrong with choosing death? I'm adapted to the conditions I grew up in. I can imagine being in far worse conditions, but I can't experience them first hand. I know we're spoiled, and that's why I feel so pathetic. I feel intensely guilty because of my condition. I shouldn't be this way. I have it better than a lot of other people, but I'm a craven weakling, so I can't even handle the situations I have to deal with, which are mild compared to the situations other people have to put up with. Knowing that only makes me want to end it even more, but the fact that part of my condition may be based on chemical imbalances gives me a little bit of a hope that I'm not a complete wretch who deserves to be killed.

I understand. So you have the fight to live inside you and that's good

I used to be incredibly spoiled. I only became somewhat of a person once life started beating me up. I found that I actually started feeling more, really alive, after I encountered these difficulties.

You're still young but there will come a time when people will be reliant on you. Your parents.. your wife and children.. who knows. But right now nobody should rely on you. So don't sweat it. You'll have plenty of chances to make up in life. Isn't it always like that? First, we are given, so we can give when we pull ourselves in a position to give.

 

[ladyforsaken]

This is the truth of nature. The hardship of life.

Indeed. Although life is a beautiful thing to appreciate, it does have a lot of harsh realities to face.

Everything humanity has achieved is by holding our teeth in front of adversity and making the world a better place for us and for our children. There's no time to sit around and lament in trivial problems (such as a non-life threatening condition) if we are to do good. To do good for OURSELVES and to OTHER PEOPLE.

Yeah. I always live by this - be kind to yourself, and to one another. That'll make this world a more bearable place to live in, at least.

 

[Lone Apothecary]

I understand. So you have the fight to live inside you and that's good

I used to be incredibly spoiled. I only became somewhat of a person once life started beating me up. I found that I actually started feeling more, really alive, after I encountered these difficulties.

You're still young but there will come a time when people will be reliant on you. Your parents.. your wife and children.. who knows. But right now nobody should rely on you. So don't sweat it. You'll have plenty of chances to make up in life. Isn't it always like that? First, we are given, so we can give when we pull ourselves in a position to give.

If I didn't have any fight left in me, I probably wouldn't be around anymore, haha. In all seriousness though, suicide is just about the last thing I would do.

Hmm, interesting. Well I suppose what doesn't kill you does make you stronger, so who knows how things will turn out if I manage to slog through everything.

Being reliant on others is also something that worries me. The possibility of psoriatic arthritis is one thing, but alongside that I've experienced Alice in Wonderland syndrome, which has been linked to brain tumors, which is far from a pleasant thought. If I was suffering immensely and relying heavily on others with no chance of regaining my independence, I'd rather die than keep on living.

 

[painter's radio]

And that makes you selfish! You should prolong your terrible life so that no one gets upset or offended that they weren't good enough for you! It's your fault if people are insecure about these things! You ungreatful swine!

 

[Misanthrope23]

"Pretty darn selfish?" What's my vested interest in whether some stranger ends their life or not?

I'm not going to keep arguing. It's obvious you don't put a value on human life as much as I do. Or you believe in that she'll definitely wake up in the next moment, either reincarnated or in heaven. And suffering... suffering is at least something. The really worst thing is nothingness. Apathy. Negation. Death.

"The really worst thing is nothingness. Apathy. Negation. Death." so do you believe that when we die we turn into complete nothingness? i think that only reiterates the pointlessness of life since once it's over it's over. and that making the best of this life is a waste of time since after all your worth "nothing." also you probably think suicide is cowardly because you never once thought of committing it yourself. now how selfish is that?

 

[Lone Apothecary]

"The really worst thing is nothingness. Apathy. Negation. Death." so do you believe that when we die we turn into complete nothingness? i think that only reiterates the pointlessness of life since once it's over it's over. and that making the best of this life is a waste of time since after all your worth "nothing."

How does something being over equate to it being pointless? Almost everything in life has meaning because it ends. Every story must end; does that mean every story is pointless? I think not. To me, the human experience is worthwhile simply because it's such a deep experience, but maybe that's a bit too theoretical to be considered worth. On a more concrete note, we're beings composed of organic matter. The nutrients in our body have worth, and when we decompose it will be put to good use. Also, if you're an organ donor, some part of you may be used to save another person's life. Isn't that worth something?

 

[blackdot]

In all seriousness though, suicide is just about the last thing I would do.

I'm quite sure that if you commit suicide, it would be the last thing you did.

 

[bodafuko]

In all seriousness though, suicide is just about the last thing I would do.

I'm quite sure that if you commit suicide, it would be the last thing you did.

Not if you count "rotting".

 

[Misanthrope23]

In all seriousness though, suicide is just about the last thing I would do.

I'm quite sure that if you commit suicide, it would be the last thing you did.

LOL you're right!!

 

[bodafuko]

I don't think suicide is brave. Brave is facing life and fighting through every breath that fate delivers you and never yielding to the pain, fear, and hopelessness.

 

[ardour]

suicide is lazy. If you're miserable and lonely at the least you can annoy people for amusement. Just pretend that they're friends and not take a hint... always funny.

 

[Lilianna]

suicide is lazy. If you're miserable and lonely at the least you can annoy people for amusement. Just pretend that they're friends and not take a hint... always funny.

LOL

 

[Vermillion Sky]

I feel it all the time but I refuse to do it.

Suicide is allowing the world to win, and no one is worth killing yourself over.

 

[QuietDesperation]

I'm one of those people who are chronically suicidal, but are too chicken to commit suicide. I can keep thinking/fantasizing about it, but I'll never do it. Not even an attempt!

I don't believe in suicide prevention programs. Just let them die. Get rid of those barriers on bridges. Stop those suicide prevention marches, programs, hotlines, etc. People should be free to commit suicide, whether it's for a toothache (true story) or a breakup with their first love.

Normal people can't imagine what it's like to feel suicidal, especially chronically suicidal for long periods of time. Normies' lives simply aren't bad enough for this idea to cross their minds. For the worst of us - our lives are a living hell, and suicide has been on our minds very often, for many years. Yet some of us just never commit to it.

Since normal people fear suicide so much, they take suicides very seriously. Nothing is as effective as a suicide - people don't take an action to fix societal problems - until someone commits suicide. When there were "suicide clusters" at affluent, high-achieving high schools - that definitely got the schools and community, and the world around them - to stop assigning so much homework, cut down on extracurriculars, enact more mental health programs, and lessen the extreme amount of work and stress the students had to suffer through.

And if students hadn't actually committed suicide, but suffered all the same - then no one would pay attention, and no action would be taken to correct the overwork, too-high expectations, and incredible stress the students suffered through.

So suicide is a great way to show the masses that something's very wrong in society - too much overwork and stress for students, or pervasive online/school bullying, etc.

No one cares about ugly people, though. If an extremely ugly person committed suicide, no one would care. The ugly person probably doesn't have much of a network, either. The old adage is true, at least for the ugliest, most undesirable people - "He had a face only a mother could love." It's true - only my mom seems to still be ok with my horrifically hideous face.

I heard that euthanasia can actually be a difficult, prolonged, painful way of dying. But I really like the idea of that - letting your parents and loved ones know that you're going to die, and they can be around you, lovingly, when you make your "final exit."

Choosing suicide because your life is excruciating, and you've tried forever, and there's no way around it - that makes sense. Prolonged, constant emotional injury/trauma is worse than a physical illness or condition. Yet suicide due to bad life circumstances/severe stigmas - and the major depression/agony that results from it - is looked down upon in most places.

They should really treat emotional injuries and mental health conditions at least as seriously as physical illnesses/injury.

 

[humourless]

Those that say suicide takes no courage have seriously entertained the idea.
It is cowardly to run away from your problems but is it cowardly to point a gun at your own head? No way. It may be totally deranged but it is not cowardly.

---

should be " never seriously"

 

[ardour]

Firearms aren't easy to come by here. It would have to be by hanging. I'm too much of a coward for that, no way I want my last moments struggling away in fear and regret either. I'm against assisted suicide/euthanasia legislation because of unintended consequences that would affect the vulnerable, but for those of us with just a void ahead and in full possession of our faculties it's not an unreasonable/crazy thing to consider. (Contradicting my stupid facetious comment from earlier.) I've thought about it on and off, but it's usually involves general sentiment of wishing for an escape, mixed with a lot self-pity. Never seriously considered doing it.

 

[Siku]

This is a very sensitive and very much subjective subject. And no, I don't entirely mean in how it's dealt with or seemingly selfish/attention seeking.

But rather, everyone thinks, feels, experiences, and/or been through their own versions of agony and/or snobish attention seeking. I've had it cross my mind many times as well, most strongly recently and I have a very easy exit in mind that is painless. (for the sake of not giving ideas to other people, I won't indulge)

Like as ardour said, it can even be this very real feeling of a void. For others, it's the strong desire that either reincarnation or an after life is plausible. Or, the agony is so unbearable that you want out. And lastly, there's the attention seeking and devaluing everything around you. Personally, I'm a potent mixture of them all. I'm a firm believer in re-incarnation for many multiple personal reasons that I'll save for another time perhaps.

Anyways, Either way, I feel that it is judged entirely too strong for how serious it can be only because of the latter people. Why isn't the "don't let one bad egg spoil the rest" apply here?? Or are we just finding our own excuses for not having the empathy or understanding. For some, it's projecting themselves or some hidden form of jealousy and resentment.

Don't ever take such a thing lightly. Never. For me, the ONLY reason I haven't done it yet is because I give two fucks about what I'm going to do to people and scared of what my exit may do to them on many levels. Which is why I recently pretended I was fine and just ghosting... It's just harder and harder to keep a hold and a reminder of such a thing when your mind becomes this constant battleground that you just want to stop racing and constantly beat you down. No one knows you like you do, so don't ever let anyone take what you say lightly. I'm learning the hard way that people will be quicker to see you wrongly, or get stuck on themselves and feel wronged when you're too blind and lost to help yourself. It's not taken with the grain of salt it should be when someone is hurting and that far deep.... Yes, you may have been there and feel like if you overcame it they can but whose to say they aren't further down than you ever been? You DO NOT KNOW.

Again, you aren't taken seriously and if the other person feels wronged with what you're daring to say, then they turn insensitive towards you at the worst time possible. It's misunderstanding going round and making matters worse....

I'm treated with less respect and like I'm sort of child now because I was open and honest with my thoughts lately. Who I truly am was easily forgotten once I began to fall apart and lash out. Which in turns, makes it even more tempting to end it. When you have nothing left and you feel like you have no where to go and taken seriously, where to then??? Sorry, I know I'm rambling now or sounding conceded but this a passionate and very relatable debate.

I've personally been friends with a gay guy who committed suicide in my teenage years, and I think I was partly to blame as I didn't accept his advances and probably made his validation worse. Because of how awkward, mature for my age, and empathetic I was as a teenager, I was mistaken for being gay despite being straight. People can be very insensitive to this UNTIL it hits close to home. Then it's the, "Oh honeysuckle... I was wrong about them..."

Unless you lived in someone else's shoes, don't question a god **** thing about their reasoning's for ANYTHING. Even if it goes against your own core beliefs. Because you are you, and they are them. To be frank, go fresia yourself of what you think of a person whom is so far gone that they even think of ending it out of agony or their own reasoning. And there is infact courage in the act. Please, you try to overcome the BIGGEST AND STRONGEST instinctual fear that we all have. Unless you're an extreme stuntman, climbed mount Everest or done these crazy unbelievable things, who the fresia are you to call anyone a coward. In my opinion, it just hypocritically further shows how closed minded and caught on themselves they actually are. Double standards against the "attention seeking snobs", much?

/endvent

 

[SirPanda]

This is a very sensitive and very much subjective subject. And no, I don't entirely mean in how it's dealt with or seemingly selfish/attention seeking.

But rather, everyone thinks, feels, experiences, and/or been through their own versions of agony and/or snobish attention seeking. I've had it cross my mind many times as well, most strongly recently and I have a very easy exit in mind that is painless. (for the sake of not giving ideas to other people, I won't indulge)

Like as ardour said, it can even be this very real feeling of a void. For others, it's the strong desire that either reincarnation or an after life is plausible. Or, the agony is so unbearable that you want out. And lastly, there's the attention seeking and devaluing everything around you. Personally, I'm a potent mixture of them all. I'm a firm believer in re-incarnation for many multiple personal reasons that I'll save for another time perhaps.

Anyways, Either way, I feel that it is judged entirely too strong for how serious it can be only because of the latter people. Why isn't the "don't let one bad egg spoil the rest" apply here?? Or are we just finding our own excuses for not having the empathy or understanding. For some, it's projecting themselves or some hidden form of jealousy and resentment.

Don't ever take such a thing lightly. Never. For me, the ONLY reason I haven't done it yet is because I give two fucks about what I'm going to do to people and scared of what my exit may do to them on many levels. Which is why I recently pretended I was fine and just ghosting... It's just harder and harder to keep a hold and a reminder of such a thing when your mind becomes this constant battleground that you just want to stop racing and constantly beat you down. No one knows you like you do, so don't ever let anyone take what you say lightly. I'm learning the hard way that people will be quicker to see you wrongly, or get stuck on themselves and feel wronged when you're too blind and lost to help yourself. It's not taken with the grain of salt it should be when someone is hurting....

Again, you aren't taken seriously and if the other person feels wronged with what you're daring to say, then they turn insensitive towards you at the worst time possible. It's misunderstanding going round and making matters worse....

I'm treated with less respect and like I'm sort of child now because I was open and honest with my thoughts lately. Who I truly am was easily forgotten once I began to fall apart and lash out. Which in turns, makes it even more tempting to end it. When you have nothing left and you feel like you have no where to go and taken seriously, where to then??? Sorry, I know I'm rambling now or sounding conceded but this a passionate and very relatable debate.

I've personally been friends with a gay guy who committed suicide in my teenage years, and I think I was partly to blame as I didn't accept his advances and probably made his validation worse. People can be very insensitive to this until it hits close to home.

Unless you lived in someone else's shoes, don't question a god **** thing about their reasoning's for ANYTHING. Even if it goes against your own core beliefs. Because you are you, and they are them. To be frank, go fresia yourself of what you think of a person whom is so far gone that they even think of ending it out of agony or their own reasoning. And there is infact courage in the act. Please, you try to overcome the biggest instinctual fear that we all have. Unless you're an extreme stuntman, climbed mount everest or done these crazy unbelievable things, who the fresia are you to call anyone a coward. In my opinion, it just further shows how closed minded and caught on yourself and your feelings you actually are. Double standards against the "attention seeking snobs", much?

/endvent

I largely agree with you.  Whenever I hear people make blanket statements when someone expresses suicide I feel like they have no idea how that person really truly feels.  Even if they've gone through training to talk to people in that mindset.  They make their arguments for how selfish it is.  How devastating it is for family, friends etc.  I never take this talk lightly.  Certain person her knows this.  I feel most everyone that is on these kinds of forums has had these thoughts at one time or another.  I think most here know how serious and hurt that person is when they express such thoughts.  And those of us that are close listen.  We try to understand your unique situation.