What does 'good looking' mean ?

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Despicable Me said:
To answer your question with another question: 'What makes a painting beautiful?'

I hope you see my point.

'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' works but not for everybody.
Some people, both men and women are unattractive. Doesn't matter what they do, life will be a struggle for them. Love, friends, even a job is difficult to find - People say they don't care about looks. It's bullshit. The evidence is all around us. We are a 'looks' society. Everything is geared towards been attractive. Why do people spend so much on beauty products ? Why do women (and men) consider plastic surgery ?

This forum we have guys coming on here saying they have had no luck with women all their lives. And they blame their looks. And then we have women saying looks don't matter. Somebody is lying. Do we have good looking guys on here complaining women don't like them ? The answer is 'no'

End of story. I rest my case !
 
Triple Bogey said:
Despicable Me said:
To answer your question with another question: 'What makes a painting beautiful?'

I hope you see my point.
'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder' works but not for everybody.
Oh, but that wasn't my point at all.
Besides, that is so cliche. I would like to think I am more original than to simply repeat an old cliche.

What I mean is that the answer to this question does not really exist. To suggest that beauty is only 'in the eye of the beholder' undermines how the vast majority still appreciate a beautiful van Gogh, or how we are all drawn to certain things and certain colors and certain themes and etc.

Beauty is not merely in the eye of the viewer. Beauty is what you make it.
The viewer might be long gone but does that mean the beauty fades with it?

It's like someone asking what a 'soul' is.

So let me explain what I think beauty is.
Beauty is like color. What we perceive is not real, but it is very real to us.

Color is the illusion that our brain creates from sensations in our eyes caused by rays of light of varying wavelengths. It is no more 'real' than any imaginary person(s) we have in our own mind. No more real than the flower we picture, than the image of our mother or father, than the dreams of our future.

But these things are still very real to us, because we feel them, we experience them, we know them. We even create them. And those rays of light that create all this, they exist too. A physical and objective trait that inspires the subjective world to come into and form reality.

That is what beauty is.

What does that mean for men and women? Whatever you want it to mean.
It is an abstract concept, it is not objective or subjective. It is both, and it is neither. In truth it is merely incomplete. Therefore it is up to each individual to complete it.

Triple Bogey said:
Do we have good looking guys on here complaining women don't like them ? The answer is 'no'
Actually there have been some. And "good looking" women complaining about not finding guys, as well. Some of these people are even somewhat regulars here. They just don't realize themselves. Maybe even be you, too, I don't know.

Are you really implying that only 'ugly guys' have problems with women not liking them?
I am not a bad looking guy, or a great looking guy, but even my wife doesn't really like me anymore. The woman who used to love and understand me.
It has nothing to do with my appearance. People are able to see beyond that. It's not just women, either. It's pretty much everyone.
It is merely because of who I am. And let me tell you one thing, as someone who has been rejected for pretty much every other reason, and even many times accepted for someone who I was not... Being rejected by the world for who you really are, rather than who they think you are, probably hurts worse than anything else in the world.

I am not someone who simply disregards their flaws, or lays blame elsewhere. I know who I am and I know why people don't like me. It has nothing to do with my looks.

So I apologize for having to correct you but no, you are most certainly wrong on this point. But maybe you classify 'ugliness' as what is within someone, and so therefore you must realize I am an ugly person.
In that case, it may be true what you say... and all I can do is resign myself to acknowledging such a situation.
 
Three pages long already? Ok let me answer this so we can end this once and for all.

Have me stand next to someone and point at the other guy and then you'll say that is what good looking is. Every time.

Glad to have helped.
 
Despicable Me said:
Are you really implying that only 'ugly guys' have problems with women not liking them?
I am not a bad looking guy, or a great looking guy, but even my wife doesn't really like me anymore. The woman who used to love and understand me.
It has nothing to do with my appearance. People are able to see beyond that. It's not just women, either. It's pretty much everyone.
It is merely because of who I am. And let me tell you one thing, as someone who has been rejected for pretty much every other reason, and even many times accepted for someone who I was not... Being rejected by the world for who you really are, rather than who they think you are, probably hurts worse than anything else in the world.

I am not someone who simply disregards their flaws, or lays blame elsewhere. I know who I am and I know why people don't like me. It has nothing to do with my looks.

So I apologize for having to correct you but no, you are most certainly wrong on this point. But maybe you classify 'ugliness' as what is within someone, and so therefore you must realize I am an ugly person.
In that case, it may be true what you say... and all I can do is resign myself to acknowledging such a situation.

Sorry about the situation with your wife (and other people). That can't be easy. It's true - being rejected for what you are by someone who knows you well is going to hurt a lot more. That would be why divorce is so devastating.

But those aren't our circumstances - our situations aren't equivalent, because we haven't given a 'chance to fail'. We don't get off the starting blocks. This is our " life experience", such as it is.
 
Triple Bogey said:
End of story. I rest my case !

Why are you so cut-and-paste about everything? You refuse to think any differently, then complain about things. Doing things and being the same way over and over, and expecting different results... That doesn't really pan out.
 
Triple Bogey said:
Do we have good looking guys on here complaining women don't like them ? The answer is 'no'

The answer is actually YES, we do. It's called low self esteem and seeing yourself worse than you really are. It's not just a woman thing, you know.
 
in this society good looking means cool hairstyles, being popular, expensive clothes and guys pretending to be criminals.
 
Wow, well I got news for you. I've been told I'm good looking, I don't think I am but I don't sit and ***** about it. I'm almost 40 and have nothing. I have no girlfriend, no kids and I wish I did, no life, a job where I might get laid off in the winter and just happened on by pure luck and pity, plus my credit card debt, had to move back home with my mom, my car needs repairs I can barely afford, I have nothing. I have pretty much given up on ever having a girlfriend and a family, all I seem to attract are the crazy girls or the ones who want a wet blanket to cry on and fix their problems. So if I'm good looking like I've been told where are all the women at? Please explain that to me. I see so many lesser attractive people or people some of you want to claim are ugly, and they have a significant other. I met a woman who was a slob, facial hair, overweight, smelt bad, didn't seem to care about her appearance at all. She even farted in front of me while trying to conduct business. She was once married, has 2 kids and had a younger boyfriend. How the hell does that happen? By the excuses people use here that women should be one of the members of this forum complaining how she can't get a boyfriend because she's ugly and fat. But she's not. I've seen so many of these people with someone it makes that "ugly" excuse bull.

So take your "no woman wants me because I'm ugly and society only cares about looks" crap and flush it.

I don't care if people think I'm being rude, I'm just so sick of seeing the same old excuses for the past five years here from the same people. Just can't take seeing it anymore. It makes me want to stick hot pokers in my brain.
 
Sci-Fi said:
So take your "no woman wants me because I'm ugly and society only cares about looks" crap and flush it.

When you get right down to it you are 100% right.
 
If I could take my bf and make him believe how handsome and cute he actually is, I think I'd create a miracle. He's got the lowest selfesteem I have ever seen.
 
Sci-Fi, we have more in common than you care to admit.

I've been told there's "nothing wrong with the way you look" a couple of times, but it was well-meaning bullshit.
 
ardour said:
I've been told there's "nothing wrong with the way you look" a couple of times, but it was well-meaning bullshit.

And that attitude doesn't say anything to you? If someone's telling you, "Hey, dude, you look fine," or that you look good, and you don't want to hear it... I think that says more about you. If someone told you that you were ugly and whatnot, would you jump on that wagon? Why is it so hard to believe that you're a decent looking dude?
 
I used to think I was ugly. HATED the way I looked and figured every person who ever said I was pretty or whatever was just being nice or making fun of me. Either that or they just had very low standards.
Guess what, I'm not ugly. I still don't think I'm exactly pretty, but other people do. I can't see myself in reality because of my own issues, so I don't go by what I think I look like. I have a few friends who tell me if a picture of me is good or not (they are brutally honest and don't lie to me), I go by how people look at me or what they say to me and let that reflect how I feel about myself.
I realize that it's my own problem and what I see about myself isn't complete reality. I accept that I do have flaws that other people may not see yet but, I can cover some of them with makeup.

Guys have this issue too, guys see themselves in horrendous ways that aren't real too. It's not just a female thing. So who are you to say that you aren't doing the same thing here? You've already said you've gotten compliments. Maybe they aren't as many as you would like, but so what, you got them. Take them for what they are and get over the hatred of yourself and your looks.
 
ardour said:
But those aren't our circumstances - our situations aren't equivalent, because we haven't given a 'chance to fail'. We don't get off the starting blocks. This is our " life experience", such as it is.
Who is 'we'? I don't understand what you're even talking about at this point.

Let me try to make it clearer what I was saying earlier. I don't really believe in 'beauty' or 'ugliness' anymore, but I do understand what people mean by it. I also understand how we view it as a culture and a society.

I've been called ugly before, both physically and personality-wise, and I've also been told I'm average or even good looking before. It really doesn't matter to me at all.
Personally, you know what? I don't care at all what other people think about me. People give me a chance because I get them to do so, not because of the way I look to them, how ugly or good looking I am. I simply cause them to be interested, if I want them to be, that is.

I mean, heck, I used to actually have a ton of girls who liked me. I had one who pretty much would have done anything for me (Anything.), and let me tell you... She was hot, too. I'm not trying to brag, though. But to prove a point.
Why did they like me? Certainly was not my looks. I faked being a confident guy and I told them everything they ever wanted to hear. That's why they liked me. Guys were just as easy to convince as girls were, of course. I was so good at faking the confidence thing that I was actually quite a jerk sometimes. Needless to say I am not like that anymore. ;) Just a bit of a jerk for other reasons, I guess.

Anyway, I'm not saying that no one gets a bum rap. It is life after all. But some of you really take it way too far. I know for a fact that there are people out there who are physically not 'beautiful' at all, they have major physical deformations, but are really great people who just don't let stuff get them down, because they've been through a lot and they just don't want to let stuff keep them from enjoying life. And you know what? They usually find someone, despite what might seem as crazy odds. IF they don't let things get them down. IF they are great people who overcome those odds themselves. IF they have confidence despite those odds. That's what makes it or breaks it for everyone. Looks don't even play a part in it.

How is it possible that some people here, with no real physical problems at all, can't find a partner, but other people with qualities that would almost objectively be considered 'ugly' can do so? Confidence.
It's all about confidence and putting yourself out there. That's all there is to it. Nothing more.

How do you get confidence? Eh, that's a lot harder to explain.
Basically you just need to stop giving a **** about all the stupid and trivial stuff in life, and to get out of whatever slump you're in.

Stop worrying about the way you look. Stop worrying about saying something stupid. Stop worrying about getting a rejection.
Stop worrying about facing humiliation. Stop worrying, period.

- Go out of your way to try new things. Even if it sounds crazy to you, just do it.
Obviously don't do something actually dangerous (sky diving? Fine. Jumping a ravine? Not okay), or something that is going to undoubtedly get you fired, but pretty much anything else. Just do it, and don't look back.
- See a cute girl/guy at the coffee shop (or wherever) you go to every day? Are they alone? You know what? Start a chat with them. Ask for their number, too. If you can't do that, you aren't taking my advice. Get rejected or their boyfriend/girlfriend comes along? That's okay! It happens all the time. At least you met someone new. That's great! Just get over it and try, try again.
- And if no one interesting comes in the coffee shop you go to? Start going somewhere new.
- Don't even go anywhere? No problem. START... NOW.
- Don't know what to say? Ask about them. What do they do. What do they like.
Don't worry if it feels strange. Don't worry if it is awkward. That's normal, that's okay.
- Oh, and hey, don't smile much? You better learn. You can start that now, too.

Worry is the opposite of confidence. The more you worry.... Well, I'm sure you all already know how that story ends.

Sorry if this isn't what you all want to hear. I'm not really into the whole lip-service thing. And I can't promise that the above advice will make anyone 'happy', nor find you "the one". But it will definitely, undoubtedly, help you to meet new people, build relationships, and gain confidence. If you're struggling with these things now... I'd highly suggest you take my advice.

Yes, I am indeed in very different circumstances than some of you. I think that goes without saying. That is probably why I can give this kind of advice confidently, knowing that it works and that it works well.
I'm one of those weird guys who can easily be a people-person and get their way with almost anyone. My problem is not that I can't do these things, my problem is that I don't want to anymore.
So if you're wondering why someone like me is giving advice like that, no need to worry. I have more than enough confidence to share. Feel free to take some. I have zero self-esteem issues.
 
everybody ignore the crap I wrote last night (on this thread). I wanted to edit it but it was too late. Just a load of tosh! Garbage !
 
Triple Bogey said:
everybody ignore the crap I wrote last night (on this thread). I wanted to edit it but it was too late. Just a load of tosh! Garbage !
Well, even if you didn't mean it much, it does bring up a common perspective.

First, it gave me a chance to better explain what I meant earlier.

Second, It's a rather common misconception that 'good looking' people cannot have problems with finding a partner. But the fact that they can and do brings up a good point. That being "ugly" or "good looking" is not all there is to finding a partner.
While that might sound like common sense, it's usually ignored in favor of whatever excuse we feel like best justifies our most recent rejection (at least from my experience).
I was kind of like that for a long time, before I became that sort of 'ladies man' (if you can call it that). I was so shy, so insecure, so morbidly afraid of talking to people. I only had to realize that confidence played a larger part in building relationships than anything else did. Of course I eventually also learned that over-confidence (arrogance) is not a worthwhile route to follow, but at least those experiences allowed me to realize who I really am and who I really want to be, instead of just pretending.

So I'm rather glad you said what you did, even if it wasn't sincere.
 
ardour said:
Sci-Fi, we have more in common than you care to admit.

I've been told there's "nothing wrong with the way you look" a couple of times, but it was well-meaning bullshit.

No we don't, and that is not what my rant was about. We are a lot more different than you think we are, please don not liken me to you. My rant was about this "excuse" of "women don't want me because I'm ugly". It is a load of crap, I know and have seen plenty of these "lesser attractive" people who have a significant other to prove it is nothing but crap. You completely missed my point. I never said people saying "nothing wrong with the way you look" was well-meaning bullshit.
 

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