honeysuckle! I think I found someone!

[Minty]

Her self esteem did have some beating from past experiences, but she is pretty strong person.
Some would see it as a struggle to be with someone like that, but to me I'd just love to try to make her happy.

So perhaps it's just trust issues that made her seem cold towards you? If that could be the case and you like her then I'd keep at it.

Her having a kid could be a great thing providing she doesn't take advantage of you to get a male figure in it's life. But she could also be acting cautious to protect her child, too.

Good luck anyway

 

[Hawx79]

Her self esteem did have some beating from past experiences, but she is pretty strong person.
Some would see it as a struggle to be with someone like that, but to me I'd just love to try to make her happy.

So perhaps it's just trust issues that made her seem cold towards you? If that could be the case and you like her then I'd keep at it.

Her having a kid could be a great thing providing she doesn't take advantage of you to get a male figure in it's life. But she could also be acting cautious to protect her child, too.

Good luck anyway

So what should I say in order to gain her trust regarding her son. Should I ask lots of questions about him so she sees that I do care for her son's wellbeing?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Rejection happens in different capacities here. I'm talking about rejection from a dating standpoint. Men get frustrated with making so many advancements on women and have nothing to show for it. Inevitably that would make one want to question why they have to deal with rejection from women. Men do the approach and ask most of the time. Have you approached every man you liked and asked them out on a date? Or did they come to you?

You're right there's nothing wrong about being told no..but as with many people on this site its not easy dealing with it over and over again and for some we dont get our way despite trying.

You're right. It does happen in different capacities. And those capacities probably have nothing to do with gender. Just as many women make advances. Just because you don't see it or hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've asked a guy out and he told me a few reasons why he wouldn't go out with me. It didn't make me dislike men or slather on generic examples of why all women are turned down. I've never even been on a date, so I couldn't answer that for you.

And no, it doesn't make me want to question why they have to deal with rejection from women. What are we supposed to do? Tell every man that we'll be with them forever just because they want to hear that we'll date them? That very line makes me think that you feel entitled to something just because you do try. Try as you might, that still doesn't mean you're to get your way with everything. So what, someone doesn't like you... It's not the end of life.

 

[Minty]

Her self esteem did have some beating from past experiences, but she is pretty strong person.
Some would see it as a struggle to be with someone like that, but to me I'd just love to try to make her happy.

So perhaps it's just trust issues that made her seem cold towards you? If that could be the case and you like her then I'd keep at it.

Her having a kid could be a great thing providing she doesn't take advantage of you to get a male figure in it's life. But she could also be acting cautious to protect her child, too.

Good luck anyway

So what should I say in order to gain her trust regarding her son. Should I ask lots of questions about him so she sees that I do care for her son's wellbeing?

Well I don't know her (or you) but I just said that because past friends of mine who had been single parents were cautious getting involved with men romantically because they didn't want their kids to get attached if it wasn't serious - also a reason why one friend of mine in particular would mention she had a child to guys that asked her out. It's better to let them know in the first place than start something, then they find out and not all men are cool with that so it avoided being dumped and hurt by the ones that do have a problem with it. Harsh but it happens.

If you don't have a problem with her having a kid then you don't need to prove anything. The trust grows with the relationship.

As I said, I don't know her or you. I could be completely wrong.

I just commented based on what I read.

 

[Triple Bogey]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.
I wonder if there is a female version of me out there (or on here) ?
46, longest relationship - a few dates, rejected countless times, laughed at, mocked, not taken seriously etc etc
I haven't got once single event to look back on and think - 'that was nice', 'she liked me' - no dances at the school disco, no childhood sweetheart, never had a conversation with a woman in a pub or nightclub ever, 2 of the 3 women I have dated were blind dates, the other one was just messing about. You think no woman has liked me (like that) and I am 46 years of age. The mind boggles how rubbish I must be !

I just think some people have very little chance of finding somebody.
Why ruin your life looking and failing ?
I say find something else to do instead.

 

[SophiaGrace]

..

 

[Triple Bogey]

..

2 dots ?

 

[SophiaGrace]

..

2 dots ?

It's half of a cootie shot.

 

[ardour]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

I just think some people have very little chance of finding somebody.
Why ruin your life looking and failing ?
I say find something else to do instead.

At some point, yes, it might be best to acknowledge that therein lies more misery and a very low chance of finding someone. Wouldn't say that to someone in their 20's though.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Okay, let's see it then

 

[mintymint]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Okay, let's see it then

Men as an organization are getting more women than any other group working anywhere in the world today.

 

[ardour]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Okay, let's see it then

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/

Women rate 80% of men "below average" in terms of attractiveness.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Okay, let's see it then

http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/

Women rate 80% of men "below average" in terms of attractiveness.

Okay, so the entire world is on OK Cupid? Because that "evidence" is only for OKC users.
Also, where's the evidence that guys don't do the same thing to girls? Yeah, they briefly mention men in that "study," but it clearly targets women as the bad guys.
Nice try though. Give me real evidence, please

 

[Solivagant]

Rather than argue the validity or relevance of OKCupid "statistics", here's another of their graphs that could possibly help explain the disparity:

 

[EveWasFramed]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Okay, let's see it then

Men as an organization are getting more women than any other group working anywhere in the world today.

ROFL!!!!!!

 

[ardour]

"Just to illustrate that women are operating on a very different scale, here are just a few of the many, many guys we here in the office think are totally decent-looking, but that women have rated, in their occult way, as significantly less attractive than so-called “medium”" :

I was shocked by that because I wouldn't consider those guys ugly at all and would have thought 3 out of 4 above average. Note how they're smiling or looking pleasant.

As per some of the comments, Lucinda: "As a medium-attractive woman myself, I must say that the four photos you posted of guys were, indeed, average at best – women know the difference between a handsome man and a plain one, and can “grade” him as such without effort"

Really???

If they are unattractive what does that make us?

As for OkCupid or other dating site users not being representative, that doesn't explain the gender discrepancy ie. why the men aren't equally critical of women's appearance.

 

[Mr Seal The Albatros]

Seeing as how these arguments usually end and seeing how we're getting very off topic from the OP's topic at this point, maybe we should shift the debate to a different thread? Pardon the bluntness, but I doubt this can lead to anything good on either side. Just a suggestion.

Hawk, since I've never been in a relationship, I'm afraid I have no advice to give, but I hope things work out well in the end.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I think a lot more men are considered 'un-dateable' than women. I think it's fair to say that.

It's fair to say and there's evidence for it.

Of course you both would say this. You both consider yourself undesired by the female population. It might be fair in both of your eyes, but it's not reasonable considering how discontented both of your perspectives are.

It would be like me complaining about how a store may carry a size 2. I could never fit into a size 2, probably not even if I did lose a lot of weight, but that doesn't give me the right to sit there and complain about them selling size 2 items.

 

[Case]

As for OkCupid, or any dating site not being representative, that doesn't explain the gender discrepancy - why aren't men there equally as critical of women's appearance?

They are. BIG time. You're ignoring a crucial part of the OKC study:

---

"2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women.

When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque. Someone like roomtodance above (a woman listed on the higher attractiveness scale) gets nearly 5 times as many messages as a typical woman and 28 times as many messages as a woman at the low end of our curve. Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.

The medical term for this is male pattern madness."

---

And it is madness. Two-thirds of all men on the site are all fighting for the hottest women and ignoring the rest. Ignoring fun, cute, exciting, smart, adventurous women, all because these men perceive the women as less attractive. It's brain-damaged thinking.

The problem is that many people go on these sites with an entitlement complex that causes them to believe that they only deserve the best when the odds of them beating the crowds to win the hearts of the "models" on the site are quite remote.

 

[ardour]

As for OkCupid, or any dating site not being representative, that doesn't explain the gender discrepancy - why aren't men there equally as critical of women's appearance?

They are. BIG time. You're ignoring a crucial part of the OKC study:

---

"2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women.

When it comes down to actually choosing targets, men choose the modelesque. Someone like roomtodance above (a woman listed on the higher attractiveness scale) gets nearly 5 times as many messages as a typical woman and 28 times as many messages as a woman at the low end of our curve. Site-wide, two-thirds of male messages go to the best-looking third of women. So basically, guys are fighting each other 2-for-1 for the absolute best-rated females, while plenty of potentially charming, even cute, girls go unwritten.

The medical term for this is male pattern madness."

---

And it is madness. Two-thirds of all men on the site are all fighting for the hottest women and ignoring the rest. Ignoring fun, cute, exciting, smart, adventurous women, all because these men perceive the women as less attractive. It's brain-damaged thinking.

The problem is that many people go on these sites with an entitlement complex that causes them to believe that they only deserve the best when the odds of them beating the crowds to win the hearts of the "models" on the site are quite remote.

---

---

To their credit it does appear women are more willing to message those they don't consider particularly good-looking, based perhaps on something else in men's profiles.

Edit: Although on second thought, the women aren't initiating that contact, they are more than likely responding to men who message them and therefore more likely to be in contact with those they consider beneath them attraction wise.

Anyway that doesn't change what they rate as unattractive vs. men, which I still find disturbing.