Incels

[Unsigned]

CHAD
phrase describing a stereotypical young urban white male, typically single and in his 20s. This phrase is usually used to denote stereotypical "Chad" behavior which is ususally derogatory.
Guy 1: "I just saw this dude pump out 100 push ups, then shotgun a beer."

Guy 2: "What a Chad."

We used to refer to nerds as "Poindexters" back in the early 70s.
Then they became "Eugenes" in the late 70s early 80s (I think because of Eugene from the movie Grease).
A fat girl was always a "Bertha".
I think the kids call a plainish girl a "Beckie" these days, although I may have that wrong...

Back to your original thought, I suppose I was an incel (INvoluntarily CELibate) until I was 19.
Then I became a wh0rech@ser.
And have been there ever since - for 38 years!

I was never a member of any organization though. I'm not a joiner type.
Honestly I was under the impression that incel only means INvoluntarily CELibate.
The whole "movement" thing may be made up of guys who are indeed "incels", but I believe the vast majority of incels are not a part of that online "movement". Just mostly quiet, decent, honest, perhaps somewhat shy guys whom females do not find attractive enough to consider for sex. It sucks. I did what I had to do to alleviate my issues, but I certainly do not recommend my lifestyle choices for everyone.

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

You should be a philosophy professor.
I mean that sincerely.

Thank you.

 

[isthatso]

I'm sure others have heard me go into it before; so, I'll be brief.

"Incel" is a misnomer. It's clever language; but, incorrect language. Celibacy is a choice; a conscious decision to abstain. If you are forced to, 'volunteer,' you didn't volunteer, heh.

As for being chronically single, having never dated, etc.. I don't think it's really an issue of, "I haven't been laid in ages!" (though it might be) as much as it's an issue of being desperate for intimacy. Intimacy can be intellectual, emotional, physical, psychological, psychic perhaps even, etc..

Staring at a problem too hard and too long, can be exhausting, though. Have to take a break sometimes, solved, partially solved, or unsolved.

Simply put, it's loneliness, I think, through and through. A craving to communicate.

By your definition, half the world are incels.

 

[user 150037]

I am involuntarily celibate but i don't hate women for not being sexually attracted to me. People can't help who they do and don't find attractive. I've met some nasties but the majority of women i have crossed paths with have at the very least been kind to me.

The only types of women i hate are the ones who are perpetually stuck up and have no regard for other people's feelings. But i admit they are a rare breed.

To be honest i've clashed with men far more often.

 

[isthatso]

I am involuntarily celibate but i don't hate women for not being sexually attracted to me. People can't help who they do and don't find attractive. I've met some nasties but the majority of women i have crossed paths with have at the very least been kind to me.

The only types of women i hate are the ones who are perpetually stuck up and have no regard for other people's feelings. But i admit they are a rare breed.

To be honest i've clashed with men far more often.

Sometimes I think female tactics can be more sneaky. Clashing with women at work, it's much harder to read their agenda. At their worst, they know how to twist the knife better than men. The torture lingers.
But at their best, I probably prefer female company. They are better empaths and know how to encourage. Their emotional intelligence is usually better. Which is a priority for me.

 

[Walnut]

So if an incel is a negative term to describe a man who blames women for a lack of sex, why is it taboo to have a negative term for a woman who blames men for their lack of relationship and therefore sex?

We live in a world that is all about the echo chambers. Why is it so hard to have actual empathy for each other and come together?

 

[isthatso]

So if an incel is a negative term to describe a man who blames women for a lack of sex, why is it taboo to have a negative term for a woman who blames men for their lack of relationship and therefore sex?

We live in a world that is all about the echo chambers. Why is it so hard to have actual empathy for each other and come together?

Echo Echo Echo....
Hey at least I'm empathising

 

[ardour]

There are two questions that all incels, Chads and Stacys hate:

1.) What is the actual defined value of sex?

2.) Is identity determinately concrete?

The answers will differ for everyone and that's, kind of the point.
In fact I would argue that those are really the only two questions that matter because everything comes back to those two questions anyhow.

The objective value is that it’s necessary for the continuation of the species and helpful for pair bonding for the purpose of raising children.

The subjective value is that it’s a base urge almost all of us have, as well as a validating experience most want.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I've always struggled to attract/date/connect with women romantically, and of course sexually.

I've never slept with anyone, and in fact I've never even been on a real date. To say it's a sh*tty feeling is an understatement.

All my life I never knew why - at first I thought I just had to wait until women grew up and out of interest in the dudebros and troublemakers. But I didn't realize that I wasn't supposed to just wait, I was supposed to major in a skilled career, and then get good at something cool outside of work. I never thought I could get good at anything, so I never got interested in it. I just did what I was forced to do/what the world required of me, and went home and just consumed entertainment and information, and enjoyed unstructured free time.

I thought impressing women was just how the jerks tried to pick up the "hot girls", by acting macho and cheesy. I thought it was immature and looked stupid. I didn't know that being impressive is how it works, period. You just aren't supposed to try to impress people in a cheesy way, but instead by actually being good at something - which again, I thought I wasn't the right kind of person for it.

Then in college I fell off course in life because I thought the end of the world was going to happen in my lifetime, so there was no point in building myself up just to lose everything and not get to live out my full life. I'm still trying to recover from this.

I never really was confident in anything about myself, or knew myself at all, because I never knew what I was or could be good at. It took a long time, but now I realize that not being good at anything was always my problem. It's hard to give off that fun, interesting, successful, everything's-coming-up-me vibe, when nothing is actually coming up "you".

Still, I wouldn't consider myself an incel though, because I'm not a part of any group, and also it's a loaded word now, almost a slur - it has a very specific, negative connotation. I've seen the stuff that people who identify as incels say, and I've thought, no, that's not really "me" either.

 

[TheSkaFish]

What is the actual defined value of sex?

For one thing, it's hardwired for us to want sex, and also relationships, the same way most people want to have friends. It's a fundamental part of being alive.

Specifically, I'd say the value of sex is normalcy. If someone finds you romantically and sexually desirable, it's like, you're officially a Normal Person, you're officially Good Enough, Not A Loser.

In fact I'd say the value of sex is only half the sex itself - the other half, is being chosen.
Not being chosen feels like sh*t, it's like when you're a kid and no one wants to be your friend, only worse, because it's more profound, and you're supposed to have figured this out by now and not still be having this problem.

I think the anger part comes into play, because it really does feel insulting at times to not be good enough for anyone, as if everyone else is some kind of superhuman, and you're just not. There are a LOT of people I don't think are that special either, and it's like really, I'm not as good as them? BS, I say.

It's also really anger-inducing when you know that some of the dumbest, trashiest, sh*ttiest, actually evil human beings out there, are having sex and you're frozen out. Like I'm less than them? They're better than me? Nah, f*** that sh*t. That's beyond insulting, it's just stupid now.

It's a bummer to miss out not only on the supposed greatest natural high, but also on being an at-least normal person.

That said sometimes I wonder why I want it at all. I don't want kids, I don't think. And that's kind of what it's all about.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

By your definition, half the world are incels.

Nothing of the sort.

I stated:

I'm sure others have heard me go into it before; so, I'll be brief.

"Incel" is a misnomer. It's clever language; but, incorrect language. Celibacy is a choice; a conscious decision to abstain. If you are forced to, 'volunteer,' you didn't volunteer, heh.

As for being chronically single, having never dated, etc.. I don't think it's really an issue of, "I haven't been laid in ages!" (though it might be) as much as it's an issue of being desperate for intimacy. Intimacy can be intellectual, emotional, physical, psychological, psychic perhaps even, etc..

Staring at a problem too hard and too long, can be exhausting, though. Have to take a break sometimes, solved, partially solved, or unsolved.

Simply put, it's loneliness, I think, through and through. A craving to communicate.

Therefore, there is no such thing as an, 'Incel.' Being forced into celibacy is not possible, because celibacy requires choice; therefore, there is no celibacy involved. The word is a misnomer and grammatically incorrect.

The whole world over, people need love, desire to express themselves, to be heard, to be understood, to belong. All sorts of these things to various degrees.

 

[user 150037]

It's good to know you're not the only one. But having for the past year known someone who wasted time with a loveless, abusive relationship and has said she doesn't have any interest in filling the void, i have learned to have perspective.

But it is still difficult at times.

 

[ardour]

So if an incel is a negative term to describe a man who blames women for a lack of sex, why is it taboo to have a negative term for a woman who blames men for their lack of relationship and therefore sex?

We live in a world that is all about the echo chambers. Why is it so hard to have actual empathy for each other and come together?

If aggressive enough, they can get labelled femcels or Nice Girls. Athough there's more sympathy for women who struggle with their looks. Body Positivity and fat acceptance are basically an extension of the women's movement, there are no plus sized male models, no male Lizzo's, no push for women to date short men.

 

[isthatso]

The whole world over, people need love, desire to express themselves, to be heard, to be understood, to belong. All sorts of these things to various degrees.

I agree it's becoming a rare commodity. Despite us being Internet global citizens, a weird alienation persists and grows year after year. When I shop/pay bills online I don't know if I'm communicating with a robot or a real person. The world becomes less real, less tangible. We live in our imaginations .

 

[Unsigned]

Therefore, there is no such thing as an, 'Incel.' Being forced into celibacy is not possible, because celibacy requires choice

Hmmmm....
I disagree, but I also kind of see your point. Kind of.
So most guys (maybe all even if they don't outright admit it?), when they say they want a girl to be with, they mean an attractive girl.
I certainly do.
So yes, it may be a choice in that we are not willing to lower our standards regarding looks/build/thinness/facial prettiness.
But jeez loiuse...there are limits!
Would you accept a Rosie O'Donnell or Lizzo lookalike just so you would no longer be an "incel"?

 

[TropicalStarfish]

I agree it's becoming a rare commodity. Despite us being Internet global citizens, a weird alienation persists and grows year after year. When I shop/pay bills online I don't know if I'm communicating with a robot or a real person. The world becomes less real, less tangible. We live in our imaginations .

Probably one of the nearest and dearest films to my heart... (Contact 1999)

 

[TropicalStarfish]

Me: Therefore, there is no such thing as an, 'Incel.' Being forced into celibacy is not possible, because celibacy requires choice

Hmmmm....
I disagree, but I also kind of see your point. Kind of.
So most guys (maybe all even if they don't outright admit it?), when they say they want a girl to be with, they mean an attractive girl.
I certainly do.
So yes, it may be a choice in that we are not willing to lower our standards regarding looks/build/thinness/facial prettiness.
But jeez loiuse...there are limits!
Would you accept a Rosie O'Donnell or Lizzo lookalike just so you would no longer be an "incel"?

I just meant grammatically, the term 'incel,' is incorrect. It would be like saying you flushed a clogged toilet. It's either clogged or it isn't. It would be like saying, "I was forced to volunteer." You can't be forced to volunteer because volunteering is voluntary. Celibacy is a choice. If you're forced into it, it isn't celibacy.

You're either a virgin, chronically single, haven't been laid in years, sexually frustrated, pissed off at life for being unfair, whatever; but, it isn't Involuntary Celibacy, because all celibacy, by definition, is voluntary. If it's involuntary, it's not celibacy.

People do this sh*t all the time; and it astounds me. I'm sure I do it too: living according to a principle that is a complete contradiction, and can't exist in the first first place, lol. But, we humans are silly lot... What kinds of hallucinations of perception, mind, and logic, do we interact with, believing them to be as real as the ground we'd fall through if it wasn't there?

I don't have the energy or the will to deal with the issue of men's frustration though... There are solutions; but, often they are behind large walls of fear, or doors that can only be opened with an open mind, or clarity of thought, or the right suggestion from the right person at the right time, or after years and years of banging one's head against the same wall, so many times, that either the wall finally caves in, or the head just can't take another beating, or a light turns on, and we think, "Why didn't I think of that 10 years ago!?"

I'd like to believe it's never too late, personally. Objectively, certain things, yes perhaps, we can miss opportunities; but, given a choice between lamenting the lamentations of the lamentations of the opportunities we lament about missing out on... or simply choosing to believe that, every day is a new beginning, and that even death inevitably is just the end, of which is one side of a coin, on which the other side is the next beginning...

I think philosophically, it's objectively true, there are optimal ways to go about living, thinking, etc.. And even if we can't choose our circumstances, or our lot in life, or even our own state of mind, and the choices we make; never the less, we think, we feel, we exist. And if we are capable of computing, and calculating, in a world devoid of all free-will, then, perhaps even then, we'll have no choice in the matter, that we can not deny, what is demonstrably true.



*shrug*

There's an old story about a priest, that would go for a walk, every day, after his sermons, and church gatherings were done. And this young boy was always out, with his lemonade stand. Nobody ever bought any lemonade, though, because he was in a terrible spot, that nobody really visited, except the priest, on his walks. So, he made a habit of buying a lemonade, and maybe the tacit suggestion or two now and then, that fell on deaf ears, that he should, 'try fishing on the other side of the boat,' so to speak. The boy never caught on though. Then one day, he goes to drop his quarter, and pick up his usual lemonade, and the boy says, "Prices went up, it's 50 cents now."

So, not only did the young man not take a hint, but, he doubled down on his errors.

It's a common thing. I may be doing that myself...

We're a foolish lot...

 

[TheSkaFish]

If aggressive enough, they can get labelled femcels or Nice Girls. Athough there's more sympathy for women who struggle with their looks. Body Positivity and fat acceptance are basically an extension of the women's movement, there are no plus sized male models, no male Lizzo's, no push for women to date short men.

Fat/short guys aren't really the opposite of women struggling with their looks though.
I used to think that growing up, but really it's more like women that struggle with looks, are like guys that struggle with not having power.

Power is more open-ended. It can be muscles and/or money, which is why the dudebros/"jocks" got to date first, because they could play the male gender role by default without self-improving, or having to change themselves or even consciously thinking about how they are, how it works, or any of it at all, due to just being born with high enough traits to play the protector provider role, just by being as they are. It's also why they're confident - why wouldn't you be, if you have the high cards and you know it. It also helps you make friends with like-minded people with similar traits/background.

Even the troublemaker crowd, may or may not have money, but they do have muscles, reflexes, and some kind of cunning/quick thinking. You can't cause much trouble and survive, without those.

But it can be other things too, it can be whatever you're good at. That's why I think I wasn't cool growing up, because I didn't have the muscles, money, or aggressive/competitive/disagreeable/dominant personality, and I didn't make up for that by being good at something either. I was never going to be a jock, and that's OK, but I needed to make up for it by being good at something else. And it's why I'm so concerned with genetics and talent, because I hope I can get good at something without having those things. I'd hate to think my life was pre-destined to suck, and there's nothing I can do about it.

The problem is, there is no acceptance movement for men that don't have power. One, it's weakness and it's almost universally despised. And two, there's no acceptance movement for men that don't achieve. You're supposed to naturally want to achieve, and to be able to. It's hard to achieve or even be interested in it though, when you don't feel like you have anything that you can do even slightly well, and feel like you can improve enough to where you can actually do it well.

To get out of this hell, I need a source of power, but I don't know if I can get one. Sticking around just to keep living like this, is starting to increasingly feel not worth it. Things like booze and video games just aren't enough, it's not supposed to be your whole life.