Do you wish women would approach you first?

[jaguarundi]

I am not a prissy woman, and I don't hold myself to any higher standard than anyone else. And there is a possible chance that I might have, in the past, caressed a guy's bum if I felt it might lead to - something more interesting. Never, however, his scrotum.

But I think - I am not sure, but I think- that very many women have had nasty, brutish and at the least semi-sexual assaults on them at some point in their lives. I certainly know quite a few women who would admit this. And I say 'admit' because despite what you guys think, it is still very likely that a woman would think it was her fault if she was raped or abused. And she would certainly be unlikely to talk about, or report it.

I do feel sorry - I really do - for men who have been shot down in flames by some pretty airhead. But, honestly - how the fresia does that compare when women are pretty routinely subjected to all kinds of verbal and sexual crap - by men - simply because they are women? Poor men, going into a bar with a chance that a girl is going to be nasty to him. But not it seems, poor women, going into a bar with the chance some guy might verbally insult her in a truly horrible way, or even stalk and rape her on the way out?

But I won't get going on this. Why? Because the majority of men on this site simply wouldn't believe it, or want to truly confront it if they did (ok changed my mind on that. ....but I think it makes a lot of men very uncomfortable) Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that all men are rapists etc. Many are great and have some understanding of what it's like. Others - maybe just wilfully blind, deaf and utterly not understanding what misogyny can really lead to. Look at female students in Afghanistan and see what I mean....

 

[EveWasFramed]

I am not a prissy woman, and I don't hold myself to any higher standard than anyone else. And there is a possible chance that I might have, in the past, caressed a guy's bum if I felt it might lead to - something more interesting. Never, however, his scrotum.

But I think - I am not sure, but I think- that very many women have had nasty, brutish and at the least semi-sexual assaults on them at some point in their lives. I certainly know quite a few women who would admit this. And I say 'admit' because despite what you guys think, it is still very likely that a woman would think it was her fault if she was raped or abused. And she would certainly be unlikely to talk about, or report it.

I do feel sorry - I really do - for men who have been shot down in flames by some pretty airhead. But, honestly - how the fresia does that compare when women are pretty routinely subjected to all kinds of verbal and sexual crap - by men - simply because they are women? Poor men, going into a bar with a chance that a girl is going to be nasty to him. But not it seems, poor women, going into a bar with the chance some guy might verbally insult her in a truly horrible way, or even stalk and rape her on the way out?

But I won't get going on this. Why? Because the majority of men on this site simply wouldn't believe it, or want to truly confront it if they did.... Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that all men are rapists etc. Many are great and have some understanding of what it's like. Others - maybe just wilfully blind, deaf and utterly not understanding what misogyny can really lead to. Look at female students in Afghanistan and see what I mean....

^^ Exactly.

 

[jaguarundi]

^Thanks Eve. It isn't often that I rant about this stuff. It's just one of those nasty little secrets that we women have between ourselves, methinks!

 

[Sci-Fi]

Being rejected can really mess with your head, as evidence on this forum can prove. And lets not just focus on men here with types of assault, there are women who do it to. And no, people who haven't experienced it can't understand what it is like, they may be able to empathize but won't really understand unless they've been through it. That applies to all kinds of things in life.

 

[ardour]

I am not a prissy woman, and I don't hold myself to any higher standard than anyone else. And there is a possible chance that I might have, in the past, caressed a guy's bum if I felt it might lead to - something more interesting. Never, however, his scrotum.

But I think - I am not sure, but I think- that very many women have had nasty, brutish and at the least semi-sexual assaults on them at some point in their lives. I certainly know quite a few women who would admit this. And I say 'admit' because despite what you guys think, it is still very likely that a woman would think it was her fault if she was raped or abused. And she would certainly be unlikely to talk about, or report it.

I do feel sorry - I really do - for men who have been shot down in flames by some pretty airhead. But, honestly - how the fresia does that compare when women are pretty routinely subjected to all kinds of verbal and sexual crap - by men - simply because they are women? Poor men, going into a bar with a chance that a girl is going to be nasty to him. But not it seems, poor women, going into a bar with the chance some guy might verbally insult her in a truly horrible way, or even stalk and rape her on the way out?

But I won't get going on this. Why? Because the majority of men on this site simply wouldn't believe it, or want to truly confront it if they did (ok changed my mind on that. ....but I think it makes a lot of men very uncomfortable) Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that all men are rapists etc. Many are great and have some understanding of what it's like. Others - maybe just wilfully blind, deaf and utterly not understanding what misogyny can really lead to. Look at female students in Afghanistan and see what I mean....

How is being passive and leaving it up to men any safer? I can't see how initiating somehow puts women in a worse position. Remaining aloof exacerbates these problems. Men who can't read signals become pests, then there are the nastier guys that get angry when it turns out a women isn't just acting coy and doesn't want their company.

If women were straightforward in communicating what they wanted, were expected to approach at that same rate as men then at least the outright ******** who harass women couldn't use the "she's playing hard to get" excuse.

 

[MTrip]

I am not a prissy woman, and I don't hold myself to any higher standard than anyone else. And there is a possible chance that I might have, in the past, caressed a guy's bum if I felt it might lead to - something more interesting. Never, however, his scrotum.

But I think - I am not sure, but I think- that very many women have had nasty, brutish and at the least semi-sexual assaults on them at some point in their lives. I certainly know quite a few women who would admit this. And I say 'admit' because despite what you guys think, it is still very likely that a woman would think it was her fault if she was raped or abused. And she would certainly be unlikely to talk about, or report it.

I do feel sorry - I really do - for men who have been shot down in flames by some pretty airhead. But, honestly - how the fresia does that compare when women are pretty routinely subjected to all kinds of verbal and sexual crap - by men - simply because they are women? Poor men, going into a bar with a chance that a girl is going to be nasty to him. But not it seems, poor women, going into a bar with the chance some guy might verbally insult her in a truly horrible way, or even stalk and rape her on the way out?

But I won't get going on this. Why? Because the majority of men on this site simply wouldn't believe it, or want to truly confront it if they did (ok changed my mind on that. ....but I think it makes a lot of men very uncomfortable) Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that all men are rapists etc. Many are great and have some understanding of what it's like. Others - maybe just wilfully blind, deaf and utterly not understanding what misogyny can really lead to. Look at female students in Afghanistan and see what I mean....

If the record of injustices is that lopsided--I'm not claiming otherwise--then why do you feel sorry for any man for any reason to begin with? Let's face it, the war between the sexes will never end. If I were a woman & I'd gone through sexual harassment or worse, well, it's quite understandable that I'd write off men in general as worthless hormone-driven animals. I'd be out for a chance to kick one in the balls every chance I could find. It's not like his protestations of innocence would be believed if law enforcement were called... Guess I'm just asking for consistency.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If the record of injustices is that lopsided--I'm not claiming otherwise--then why do you feel sorry for any man for any reason to begin with? Let's face it, the war between the sexes will never end. If I were a woman & I'd gone through sexual harassment or worse, well, it's quite understandable that I'd write off men in general as worthless hormone-driven animals. I'd be out for a chance to kick one in the balls every chance I could find. It's not like his protestations of innocence would be believed if law enforcement were called... Guess I'm just asking for consistency.

No, the battle of the sexes will never end. However, MEN are abused by women too, but very few will acknowledge this fact. (There's a thread somewhere, but I don't feel like looking for it)
Yes, men being abused is likely not as high as women, but that's not really the point. Men are also abused by other men, just as women are abused by other women. And then there are the children who are abused by adults.
BECAUSE women are usually weaker, they need to take more steps to protect themselves. Learn how to defend against it, learn to not go somewhere alone, if necessary. I'm not saying it's the woman's fault, but there are ways to protect against it (and yes, it could still happen), but most don't take the steps or maybe some don't feel they should have to.

Abuse is abuse, regardless of the nature, it happens to every race and gender. It's up to the individual (female OR male) to decide whether they will let the abuse dictate their life or if they will move on from it. I have been in quite a few different types of abuse situations and while it wasn't easy to let it go and stop blaming myself and victimizing myself, I did it. *edited - please, no gender bashing* While most of the men I know can definitely be ********, I know a lot of them still have good qualities too.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Like it or leave it, I don't care.

 

[SofiasMami]

If the record of injustices is that lopsided--I'm not claiming otherwise--then why do you feel sorry for any man for any reason to begin with? Let's face it, the war between the sexes will never end. If I were a woman & I'd gone through sexual harassment or worse, well, it's quite understandable that I'd write off men in general as worthless hormone-driven animals. I'd be out for a chance to kick one in the balls every chance I could find. It's not like his protestations of innocence would be believed if law enforcement were called... Guess I'm just asking for consistency.

No, the battle of the sexes will never end. However, MEN are abused by women too, but very few will acknowledge this fact. (There's a thread somewhere, but I don't feel like looking for it)
Yes, men being abused is likely not as high as women, but that's not really the point. Men are also abused by other men, just as women are abused by other women. And then there are the children who are abused by adults.
BECAUSE women are usually weaker, they need to take more steps to protect themselves. Learn how to defend against it, learn to not go somewhere alone, if necessary. I'm not saying it's the woman's fault, but there are ways to protect against it (and yes, it could still happen), but most don't take the steps or maybe some don't feel they should have to.

Abuse is abuse, regardless of the nature, it happens to every race and gender. It's up to the individual (female OR male) to decide whether they will let the abuse dictate their life or if they will move on from it. I have been in quite a few different types of abuse situations and while it wasn't easy to let it go and stop blaming myself and victimizing myself, I did it and while I still do think men are ******** (no offense), I also know that most of them also have good qualities.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Like it or leave it, I don't care.

Apologies to the OP because we are way off topic...
I refuse to say abuse just happens and victims (nearly always women and children) just need to defend themselves. Abusers need to learn to stop. The onus is on abusers to take the steps to change their odious and despicable behaviors. And the rest of society needs to stop blaming the victims and letting abusers off easy.

-Teresa

 

[EveWasFramed]

If women were straightforward in communicating what they wanted, were expected to approach at that same rate as men then at least the outright ******** who harass women couldn't use the "she's playing hard to get" excuse.

Sure they could and often DO.
Aside from that, I will say this...
I've mentioned here on the forum that I've recently taken the plunge into dating sites. Out of all the contact I've had with guys, I've done the initiating about 75% of the time. Some women ARE straight forward and DO initiate. I can't think of what thread it was recently, but even some of the male members of this very forum said they'd wonder about a woman's morals (how many men she'd been with) if one were to initiate something with them! So...don't fault women who are afraid to be branded with a scarlet letter A.
NEITHER sex is REQUIRED to initiate a **** thing. People should stop pointing fingers. If you like someone, show some interest. If you don't, that's on YOU, not the other person.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If the record of injustices is that lopsided--I'm not claiming otherwise--then why do you feel sorry for any man for any reason to begin with? Let's face it, the war between the sexes will never end. If I were a woman & I'd gone through sexual harassment or worse, well, it's quite understandable that I'd write off men in general as worthless hormone-driven animals. I'd be out for a chance to kick one in the balls every chance I could find. It's not like his protestations of innocence would be believed if law enforcement were called... Guess I'm just asking for consistency.

No, the battle of the sexes will never end. However, MEN are abused by women too, but very few will acknowledge this fact. (There's a thread somewhere, but I don't feel like looking for it)
Yes, men being abused is likely not as high as women, but that's not really the point. Men are also abused by other men, just as women are abused by other women. And then there are the children who are abused by adults.
BECAUSE women are usually weaker, they need to take more steps to protect themselves. Learn how to defend against it, learn to not go somewhere alone, if necessary. I'm not saying it's the woman's fault, but there are ways to protect against it (and yes, it could still happen), but most don't take the steps or maybe some don't feel they should have to.

Abuse is abuse, regardless of the nature, it happens to every race and gender. It's up to the individual (female OR male) to decide whether they will let the abuse dictate their life or if they will move on from it. I have been in quite a few different types of abuse situations and while it wasn't easy to let it go and stop blaming myself and victimizing myself, I did it and while I still do think men are ******** (no offense), I also know that most of them also have good qualities.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Like it or leave it, I don't care.

Apologies to the OP because we are way off topic...
I refuse to say abuse just happens and victims (nearly always women and children) just need to defend themselves. Abusers need to learn to stop. The onus is on abusers to take the steps to change their odious and despicable behaviors. And the rest of society needs to stop blaming the victims and letting abusers off easy.

-Teresa

I hope that isn't directed at me, because if it is, you completely misconstrued what I wrote (or didn't read it all).
I never said abuse "just happens," so I have NO idea where you came up with THAT idea.
I DID state it happens to women more, but you know what....abuse is abuse, I don't care if you are male or female, to me a human being is a human being, regardless of what they have as genitals.
As far as defending themselves. YES, YOU SHOULD. If you know you are the weaker sex physically, you SHOULD prepare yourself for the worst. That's true in ANY situation. During hurricane season, do you have a hurricane plan? Do you have a fire plan if your house catches on fire? How about a tornado plan? Abuse is no different, you should have a plan and be prepared.

Good luck making Abusers LEARN to stop. I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. Some people are just mean or bullies or sick in the head. You can't make them LEARN. If you honestly expect the solution to be that, then things will never change. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn, and in my experiences, most abusers do NOT want to learn.

 

[OnlyMe]

I would love for a woman to approach me.

I'd respect her purely for the fact that I know how hard it can be to put yourself out there and ask someone out.

Also, I find it absolutely astounding that anyone would question a womans morals because of her making the approach.

 

[Batman55]

Also, I find it absolutely astounding that anyone would question a womans morals because of her making the approach.

Exactly. That kind of thinking is really very strange to me.

 

[jaguarundi]

Also, I find it absolutely astounding that anyone would question a womans morals because of her making the approach.

Exactly. That kind of thinking is really very strange to me.

I think that there may be some men who would. More to the point perhaps, is that a woman might believe that she could be seen that way, and therefore not do it..... And thus does perceived societal norms make idiots of everyone..[/i]

 

[OnlyMe]

I think that there may be some men who would. More to the point perhaps, is that a woman might believe that she could be seen that way, and therefore not do it..... And thus does perceived societal norms make idiots of everyone..[/i]

The thing that I find strange about that kind of thought process is

If a woman believes that she could be seen in that way by her making the approach.

Wouldn't having that kind of mindset mean that she could also think that she could be seen in that way by her accepting an approach from a guy?

I think another problem is that so many people tend to overthink things (I know I am guilty of it) and also the amount of mind games that go on in the dating 'game'.

I did like your closing sentence about societal norms.

 

[jaguarundi]

I think that there may be some men who would. More to the point perhaps, is that a woman might believe that she could be seen that way, and therefore not do it..... And thus does perceived societal norms make idiots of everyone..[/i]

The thing that I find strange about that kind of thought process is If a woman believes that she could be seen in that way by her making the approach. Wouldn't having that kind of mindset mean that she could also think that she could be seen in that way by her accepting an approach from a guy?

No. Approaching the man might seem to imply she was 'gagging for it' Accepting a date would not. It may make no sense to you or anyone else, but logic does not dictate human behaviour. If it did there would be a lot more guys on ALL getting dates. Just accept what I am saying. And as well as that, I do recall asking a guy out once, and the female acquaintance I was with at the time commented that she 'had never had to ask a guy out in her life.' Thus also suggesting that I was a loser compared to her. It could well be that it is the censure of other women that might put a woman off asking.... It sure as hell made me feel about an inch tall...

I think another problem is that so many people tend to overthink things (I know I am guilty of it) and also the amount of mind games that go on in the dating 'game'.

Agreed, overthinking can sabotage a lot of things. Disagree on mind games, if you are meaning that most people deliberately play them. Half the people out there are playing mind-games with themselves (am I attractive enough? Will he/she like me ? Should I have worn something else? I wish I was as slim as her ... What has he got that I haven't - and on and on) to have enough energy left to spare on anyone else.

I did like your closing sentence about societal norms.

Gosh you have just made my day....

 

[OnlyMe]

No. Approaching the man might seem to imply she was 'gagging for it' Accepting a date would not. It may make no sense to you or anyone else, but logic does not dictate human behaviour. If it did there would be a lot more guys on ALL getting dates. Just accept what I am saying.

It would take a pretty messed up mind to associate a woman approaching a guy as that she is 'Gagging for it'

Logic plays a big part in human behaviour, however when it comes to relationships it often loses out to the power of attraction.

And as well as that, I do recall asking a guy out once, and the female acquaintance I was with at the time commented that she 'had never had to ask a guy out in her life.' Thus also suggesting that I was a loser compared to her. It could well be that it is the censure of other women that might put a woman off asking.... It sure as hell made me feel about an inch tall...

Should have turned the tables on her and told your female acquaintance that the difference between you and she is that you are independant and confident enough in yourself to approach a guy.

It says more about her than you that she would need to gloat over such a thing.

Agreed, overthinking can sabotage a lot of things. Disagree on mind games, if you are meaning that most people deliberately play them. Half the people out there are playing mind-games with themselves (am I attractive enough? Will he/she like me ? Should I have worn something else? I wish I was as slim as her ... What has he got that I haven't - and on and on) to have enough energy left to spare on anyone else.

The whole dating experience is full of mind games no matter how small they may seem.

Playing hard to get is an obvious one.

Other more common ones probably could also be described as the stupid little rules that you are supposed to follow

Such as you shouldn't call someone within 'x' amount of days after a date.
Breaking plans at the last minute to see how someone reacts.

The list goes on.

Gosh you have just made my day....

The sarcasm meter just hit a dangerously high level with that response.

 

[Triple Bogey]

I see women approach men all the time. I think women are quite bold and there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Melsaldi]

That would be nice. Then I wouldn't have to deal with rejection so much since I know she's interested.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Gosh you have just made my day....

The sarcasm meter just hit a dangerously high level with that response.

Then you might want to rethink what you consider sarcasm. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think that was meant to be sarcastic. If it was, I apologize in advance.

 

[jaguarundi]

Gosh you have just made my day....

The sarcasm meter just hit a dangerously high level with that response.

Then you might want to rethink what you consider sarcasm. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think that was meant to be sarcastic. If it was, I apologize in advance.

Gosh, you have just made my day! lol

that better?