If your your an average guy, things suck, and theres nothing you can do

[Rvanson]

I was married in the early 90's and things were light years different from how they are now. Afyer we our divorce around 6 years ago I was in shock at how much dating had changed for the worse for men who are not in the top 20% or so. If things were close to the way they were then, you be correct but social media, cell phones & dating apps have squeezed even many average men out of the dating market & it's now virtually impossible for below average men to get interest from women in the US.

Btw, I would in no way describe my marriage as in any way a success on any level & we were at best roomates for the majority of the time. If not for my fear if being alone I would have gotten divorced many years before I did, The one thing we agree we did right was choose not to procreate.

That is one reason that MGTOW is growing like crazy. Even in the 90's dating wasn't so great.
I met a chick on Match. We met up for coffee only as I didn't do first-time dinner dates like lots of men do.

Within 5 minutes she dumped me flat and was out the door. She lied about being a secretary as the following year, I was delivering cardboard to the place she worked at.

She was driving a forklift in a warehouse, the liar !!!! LOL!!!

 

[okidoke]

That is one reason that MGTOW is growing like crazy. Even in the 90's dating wasn't so great.
I met a chick on Match. We met up for coffee only as I didn't do first-time dinner dates like lots of men do.

Within 5 minutes she dumped me flat and was out the door. She lied about being a secretary as the following year, I was delivering cardboard to the place she worked at.

She was driving a forklift in a warehouse, the liar !!!! LOL!!!

A year later? Maybe she changed jobs.

 

[Unsigned]

Or woman. I believe that the person doing the rejecting is simply thinking “I can find someone more to my liking than this person.” And I think pretty much everyone does that. Even you.

But until the 1960 and the "women's movement", well off men who were mediocre in physical appearance, or even "ugly", could expect to land attractive women due to the fact that they were good providers. Same goes for men who may have been "boring" (really meaning steady, honest, intelligent and hardworking).
This is the natural order of things.
A male's worth is his ability to provide.
A female's worth is her femininity (passivity/submissiveness), youth and beauty.
The subversion of this is the downfall of 1st world society.

 

[okidoke]

But until the 1960 and the "women's movement", well off men who were mediocre in physical appearance, or even "ugly", could expect to land attractive women due to the fact that they were good providers. Same goes for men who may have been "boring" (really meaning steady, honest, intelligent and hardworking).
This is the natural order of things.
A male's worth is his ability to provide.
A female's worth is her femininity (passivity/submissiveness), youth and beauty.
The subversion of this is the downfall of 1st world society.

lol, so now that women can fend for themselves, all those lowly men have a big sook about it. Yeah righto. How many of those well to do blokes back before 1960 chose “ugly” women who might have been good at keeping house, bearing children etc etc. A female’s worth is a lot more than her femininity dude.

 

[okidoke]

This thread is like an old rusty sunken ship that keeps popping up bits of itself.

 

[ardour]

lol, so now that women can fend for themselves, all those lowly men have a big sook about it. Yeah righto. How many of those well to do blokes back before 1960 chose “ugly” women who might have been good at keeping house, bearing children etc etc. A female’s worth is a lot more than her femininity dude.

Assortative mating was still a thing back then. But they got partners at least.

 

[okidoke]

Assortive mating was still a thing back then. But they got partners at least.

*assortative. Ardour, you know very well you're a choosy b@st@rd lol.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Or woman. I believe that the person doing the rejecting is simply thinking “I can find someone more to my liking than this person.” And I think pretty much everyone does that. Even you.

I mean, sure. In the 50s you just married the first person you kissed, and never went to therapy. I'm not wishing for that. Now we have an abundance of choice, so I can see how that makes people more selective, or holding out for someone better.

My issue is that all of my friends, and literally every other male I know, gets chosen as the 'someone better' from time to time, and I'm stuck with "just be patient, it'll happen soon!"

 

[NoxApex(N/A)]

But until the 1960 and the "women's movement", well off men who were mediocre in physical appearance, or even "ugly", could expect to land attractive women due to the fact that they were good providers. Same goes for men who may have been "boring" (really meaning steady, honest, intelligent and hardworking).
This is the natural order of things.
A male's worth is his ability to provide.
A female's worth is her femininity (passivity/submissiveness), youth and beauty.
The subversion of this is the downfall of 1st world society.

Actually, I think in a world where we have 8,000,000,000 People and 3,000 Satellites in space, trying to argue the value of a man and the value of a woman is only yet another redundancy.
The actual question we should be asking is:
What is the value of excessive redundancy?

But nobody wants to ask that because that's objective thinking, not subjective thinking, and people don't like objective solutions because objective solutions don't fit their subjective narratives, it's not comfortable....even though a subjective narrative doesn't give a crap about our objective existence in physical reality.

This is a part of the problem that we have in modernity.
When we can no longer comfortably and easily separate ourselves as our identity from ourselves as a physically existing organism on the planet, than yes, that's a problem of sensory overload via our redundancies themselves. It's funny because it's not funny. It's what I'd call ironic dark humor.

You know, an old man turned 98, he won the lottery, and died the next day.

Physical reality is quite damning, actually.
I suppose that's why it's unpopular.
The body just decays, that is what it does.
That's the nature of organic matter.
We're biodegradable.
With all the bullshit that we consume, I'm surprised we're still biodegradable, but I mean, that in its own is a marvel.

Basically, we have the pilot episode of Red Vs. Blue as a problem with modernity:

"Ever wonder why we're here?"
"The only reason we have a Red base over here, is because they have a Blue base over there."
.....
.....
"What are they talking about?"



That's where we're at.

 

[okidoke]

.....My issue is that all of my friends, and literally every other male I know, gets chosen as the 'someone better' from time to time, and I'm stuck with "just be patient, it'll happen soon!"

What do you mean by "from time to time"? What's happening the "other times"?

People say silly platitudes like "Just be patient. it'll happen soon" because they don't know what else to say, and it's sort of dumb, but in any case, in a different environment you'd be selected to be killed as an example for something or revered in another environment, so that's just life isn't it.

I'm sure you're also, even subconsciously, holding out for someone better when you observe some of the women that enter into your line of sight.

 

[Unsigned]

lol, so now that women can fend for themselves, all those lowly men have a big sook about it.

I certainly wouldn't refer to hardworking, honest, intelligent men as "lowly".
"Boring" in the eyes of fun crazed females, perhaps, but not lowly.

Also, I would disagree 100% that women are "fending for themselves".
They have the full force of the US government (and, I imagine, the govs of other western nations) pretty much holding a gun to the heads of both corps and individuals to ensure that they are "strong and independent". Which, when you think about it, is the exact opposite of "strong and independent". Get rid of all the EEOC/AA laws and see what happens.

 

[okidoke]

I certainly wouldn't refer to hardworking, honest, intelligent men as "lowly".
"Boring" in the eyes of fun crazed females, perhaps, but not lowly.

Also, I would disagree 100% that women are "fending for themselves".
They have the full force of the US government (and, I imagine, the govs of other western nations) pretty much holding a gun to the heads of both corps and individuals to ensure that they are "strong and independent". Which, when you think about it, is the exact opposite of "strong and independent". Get rid of all the EEOC/AA laws and see what happens.

I meant lowly as in those who feel they aren't good looking enough. And there you go generalising again with "fun crazed females", like they're all that way. How can you "disagree 100%" when you yourself are the clientele of countless women earning their own money to live comfortable lives.

Look, this whole thread is trying to argue that average guys can't do anything about their sucky lives, which is a load of self-pitying bollocks.

 

[Unsigned]

How can you "disagree 100%" when you yourself are the clientele of countless women earning their own money to live comfortable lives.

Well...that's a good point.

Happy Father's Day to you and all the other Dads here, btw.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

What do you mean by "from time to time"? What's happening the "other times"?

People say silly platitudes like "Just be patient. it'll happen soon" because they don't know what else to say, and it's sort of dumb, but in any case, in a different environment you'd be selected to be killed as an example for something or revered in another environment, so that's just life isn't it.

I'm sure you're also, even subconsciously, holding out for someone better when you observe some of the women that enter into your line of sight.

Well, not so much any more, as most are now in committed long term relationships. As single people, they all did pretty well; they would get matches online, and most would lead to successful dates etc, sure they would get ghosted as well, but that was a minority.

As for myself, I would disagree with your assumption. If I was one of those people who are bombarded with options, I suppose it would make me discard perfectly good candidates in favour of a mythical “perfect”. However, my options are very few, bordering on zero, so I’m pretty much willing to overlook many flaws and red flags, because nobody else wants me.

 

[okidoke]

...... If I was one of those people who are bombarded with options, I suppose it would make me discard perfectly good candidates in favour of a mythical “perfect”. However, my options are very few, bordering on zero, so I’m pretty much willing to overlook many flaws and red flags, because nobody else wants me.

Dude, it's a very, very small percentage of men that are "bombarded with options". Most men are not. So how often are you asking out women with flaws and red flags, or even just women that might be deemed "unattractive" by the average guy? Are you trying to tell me such women are knocking you back?

 

[user 190541]

They have the full force of the US government (and, I imagine, the govs of other western nations) pretty much holding a gun to the heads of both corps and individuals to ensure that they are "strong and independent". Which, when you think about it, is the exact opposite of "strong and independent". Get rid of all the EEOC/AA laws and see what happens.

In Brazil, when a woman married to a military officer of certain ranks (I don't remember exactly which ones) becomes a widow, she is awarded with a considerable monthly sum of money for doing nothing more than being an officer's widow. Women who fall into this category will often get involved with other men, but never again marry so as to not lose this prerogative. Still, it's people who are priviledged, either by birth or social station, who get to live the easy life. The majority of the people, both men and women, have no choice but to be "strong and independent".

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Dude, it's a very, very small percentage of men that are "bombarded with options". Most men are not. So how often are you asking out women with flaws and red flags, or even just women that might be deemed "unattractive" by the average guy? Are you trying to tell me such women are knocking you back?

I don't think it's as rare as you think. I'm not hanging out with male models and NBA All-Stars here, but I can think of several guys I know who are bombarded by women trying to date them. Granted, they are handsome men who tend to work in professions such as bartending or personal trainers. Even on the dancing scene, there are a couple of guys who, though are happily in relationships, always have women asking if they're single.
As for myself, yes, I most certainly do have lower standards than I thought I would when I was 18 and dreamed of being with Cameron Diaz. I do ask women out who don't fit the societal "norms" of attractiveness. Problem is, neither do I. I can't give you an exact quota on how often, but between in-person and online swiping, it's several times a week.

 

[okidoke]

I do ask women out who don't fit the societal "norms" of attractiveness. Problem is, neither do I.

So what you’re actually saying, like several other men in this forum would be, is that you’re not average at all, but below average. This whole thread was trying to say that the average guy hasn’t a chance to fix his sucky life, but in fact, it’s actually about guys who consider themselves below average and can’t seem to get what the “average” guys, or even above average guys get. Well, guess what? Life isn’t fair. You make the best of it the best way you can. If you’re desperate enough, you’ll make the compromises and changes you need to better your chances to acquire such things, but there are no guarantees in life except that you’ll eventually die, like I wish this thread would.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

You'd think this forum only had about 4 or so sexually frustrated men, lately (as in only four members entirely).

Give the rationalizing a break. Life sucks and we're going to die. Live a little.

 

[user 190541]

You'd think this forum only had about 4 or so sexually frustrated men, lately (as in only four members entirely).

It's certainly lacking discussions of greater intellectual value as of late.